Would it be better for one's soul if one was not raised catholic?

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This is a serious question. Would it be better for ones soul if one was not raised catholic, but rather some other form of christian/protestant sect? What if a catholic parent delibrately raised their child with the faith of the other non-catholic spouse (let’s say baptist), believing that this would be an easier road to salvation for their child. (I realize the grave sin for the catholic parent that exists, but that is not the focus of this hypothetical). With the modern view of the church that there is salvation outside of the catholic church for those who are “ignorant of the true faith” and who live life according to a good deveolped conscience, would it be better for them than for a catholic in constant struggle to live up to the teachings of the church, which is far more difficult a road to travel? Now, taking into account that they are “separated brethren” who are not in communion with the beauty of the true faith, they are (according to the church) still able to reach heaven. Here is an example which is somewhat different, but in the same spirit. Let’s say catholic parents do not approve of the marriage of their daughter. Based upon the character or maturity of their child, or future spouse, the parents believe the marriage will end in divorce. So the catholic parents convince the child to marry outside the church (justice of the peace) and have the marriage blessed later if things work out. That way if their were to be a divorce, the daughter would not be forbidden from remarriage in the church at a later date. I don’t personally know of anyone who has or would do this, but I’m sure there have been cases in which this has happened. Now, the catholic who essentialy uses church teaching to get around the rules would be in serious trouble, but what about the “ignorant party”? According to the modern church teaching they are not expected to play by the same rules.

I understand that I am being a little provacative and perhaps far reaching with my hypotheticals, but I believe that these are some of the problems that come out of a more tolerable, ecumenical modern church. Just playing devils advocate, but I would love to see the diaologe about this issue.
 
I hear what you’re saying… but I just LOVE being Catholic so much… I can’t imagine not sharing all of this with my children - even if it does mean that they are held to a higher standard. I think it’s worth it 1,000 X over.

I think rather than trying to convince my daughter to marry outside the Church, I would pray pray pray that God would it out so her marriage wouldn’t fail. I think we have to be careful not to think we know better than God. and in that circumstance, I think it’s better to leave it up to Him, rather than trying to manipulate the situation.

Interesting thread though…

🙂
 
a Catholic parent who deliberately raised a child without knowledge and practice of the Catholic faith is committing a mortal sin and risking their own salvation, hardly a fair trade for giving his child an “easier” path to salvation, even if such a possibility were true.
 
It appears to me that this concept of having to live up to a higher standard, because one is Catholic, does not reveal the real truth of the matter.
You live up to a Higher Standard for GOD regardless. At all times and everywhere. It is not a game where you try to circumvent possible outcomes, not fully trusting in God, ie by keeping your children from marrying into the Catholic Church because it may not work out. The basis to our Catholicism is receiving the Gift of the Body of Christ and in turn allowing God to use your hands, your lips, your heart to be unconditonal love in the world. This is the point of creation. This is what God intended.

The dificult part of being Catholic does NOT lie in the following:
The Gift of Salvation
The Gift of the Body and Blood of Christ
The Gift of Mercy and Forgiveness
The Gift of Holy Spirit, in Communion as One
The Gift of the Covenantal Sacraments
The Gift of Mary and the Saints
The Gift of Communion

The dificult part of being Catholic lies in the fact that in our own self centeredness we do not want to walk a mile in our brothers shoes, or say a kind word, show concern, be a friend. We, at the deepest level, where God resides, are called to Stewardship, to be self sacrificing, to put anothers need or pain above our own.

Your ultimate trust lies with God, not humans. Simple but at times seems so complex. Always strive to the “Higher Standard”, it is the Sacred space where the unconditional LOVE of GOD presides. This is what God wants of us.

Gratitude and Blessings,
Lisa
 
Trying to make end-runs around one’s responsibilities is a sign not of wisdom but of immaturity and self-centeredness. I’d be careful about talking yourself into such a way of thinking, marci. No one can “fool” God and it is God one has to answer to for trying to get away with as much as possible while still thinking oneself “okay.” That’s the sin of presumption, which is a very serious sin, indeed.
 
Actually, it would make the situation much harder for the individual. Invincible ignorance still requires that the non-Catholic person fulfill the same requirements and morality that a Catholic would have to. So, despite his ignorance, the same rules would exist. His salvation would be constantly in danger, since he would not know what the true laws of morality were. If he used birth control, for example, this would still be a mortal sin, but he wouldn’t know it, and with no possibility of going to confession, his soul would be in grave danger. As you can see, the rule is fairly restricting.
 
Hi Marci,

Answering your general question, God has a plan for us all and gives us the graces to fulfil it. In theory, it is easier to be saved in the Catholic Church since we have the sacraments to help us along. In practice, God gives everyone the graces necessary to be saved and it is how we correspond to those graces that will get us there.

As for someone who would purposely raise their child outside the Church, they would be endangering their own salvation by doing so. So, whatever happens there is no net gain.

Verbum
 
It would be a serious sin indeed on your part. God knows exactly what you are thinking, you can’t fool him.
The rules of God don’t change from church to church. The churches may teach different things but Gods law remains the same regardless of what church you belong to.
What you are planning is depriving your child of the full truth and knowledge necessary for salvation. That would be the same as if your child had cancer and bringing her to a walk-in-clinic instead of a cancer center.
 
I’d be careful about talking yourself into such a way of thinking, marci.
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I didn’t say this was my way of thinking, just thought the topic would be interesting as a philosophical argument. The hypotheticals I used in my thread were by no means meant to be representative of my personal belief system, or in any way justified either by myself nor the church. I was trying to illustrate the pandora’s box that has been opened up concerning the idea of universal salvation.

God Bless,
marci
 
Marci;

The Church doesn’t speculate on the eternal fate of non-Catholics.

In a technical sense, yes, they could go to Heaven. What are the chances? We have no way of knowing. Certainly, there are no guarantees - as someone above pointed out, one mortal sin, and that’s it, since they don’t have Confession. Why risk it?

What we do know is this: that a Catholic who participates fully in the Sacraments, who lives the best life he or she possibly can, and who believes all that the Church teaches, will most certainly go to Heaven. So, if you love your children, that’s what you’ll teach them to do, because that’s what has the highest possible chance of success.
 
marci said:
I didn’t say this was my way of thinking, just thought the topic would be interesting as a philosophical argument. The hypotheticals I used in my thread were by no means meant to be representative of my personal belief system, or in any way justified either by myself nor the church. I was trying to illustrate the pandora’s box that has been opened up concerning the idea of universal salvation.

God Bless,
marci
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I totally understood this is what you meant. 🙂
 
The Sacraments help us reach heaven.
This is how I look at it (and this is totally just my opinion)

Picture the Titanic… it’s going down.

Now some people are on the lifeboats and they have life jackets on and they are rowing away from the ship. These are the Catholics. Is it a guarantee that all will survive? Nope… but it’s much better than the alternatives…

Some people are bobbing in the water in their lifejackets… but unfortunatly they don’t have a boat. There’s a pretty good chance they will survive… but gosh it’s too bad they aren’t on a boat, it would be so much easier. These are the Non-Catholic Christians.

Some people don’t have a life jacket or a boat. They are just treading water…and they are going to have a REALLY hard time. 😦 Many won’t make it… but maybe, just maybe a few will. These are the non-Christians.

Being Catholic is the safest place to be.
 
There is a false assumption here and that is the assumption that living the life of a good person whatever faith you wish is easier than being a good Catholic. The other false assumption is that someone of another faith performs what a Catholic knows is a mortal sin is always culpable for that action or omission. The simile about the Titanic was quite a good one as I believe being a Catholic provides many more “tools” to make salvation more likely. When I was a young man I thought those guys in the public school (at that time most Catholic kids in my town went to Catholic School) were lucky. They could do things that were wrong and not have to go to confession. Fifty-Sixty years later I understand the folly of that attitude. How blessed we are to be sure that our sins are forgiven.
 
When I was a young man I thought those guys in the public school (at that time most Catholic kids in my town went to Catholic School) were lucky. They could do things that were wrong and not have to go to confession. Fifty-Sixty years later I understand the folly of that attitude. How blessed we are to be sure that our sins are forgiven
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This was great! This is one angle (one of the simplest and best) that I didn’t think of when contructing the argument.

Thanks to all who posted. I liked the examples given as to why the church provides all the means for salvation lacking in other faiths. Just to add one final thought about this topic on a personal level, eventhough I have entertained, briefly, the idea of abondoning the faith because of the secular problems that have infultrated some in the clergy and laity, two things kept me from doing it. The Eucharist and the Blessed Mother. I could never leave the encounter with the Real Presence and I could never join a church that didn’t love and elevate the Mother of Jesus. In clinging to those two truths, (and a long confession) I managed to get past whatever anger I had and reconcile myself to the church. 🙂

J.M.J. Pray for us.
 
Marci,

The short answer to your question is a resounding “No.” It would not be better for one’s soul if one were not raised Catholic. Given the choice between a dissenting Catholic and an honest, devout Protestant, I would choose the devout Protestant, but of all the possible alternatives an orthodox, devout Catholic is by far the best.

Even if Protestants do not sin through their ignorance, they still do bad things that cause temporal damage. (Think of all the divorces and other ill effects that stem from the use of artificial birth control. The Protestant who uses artificial birth control does not sin because the element of rebellion against God is not there, but he is still erring in a grave matter and will need to deal with the consequences.) It is far better to know the truth and live by it, even if that is a struggle. What is not made up in this life will be made up in Purgatory.
  • Liberian
 
marci said:
With the modern view of the church that there is salvation outside of the catholic church for those who are “ignorant of the true faith” and who live life according to a good deveolped conscience, would it be better for them than for a catholic in constant struggle to live up to the teachings of the church, which is far more difficult a road to travel?
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This presupposes that the only reason the “rules” are there in the Catholic Church is to get to heaven. But that is, in fact, not the case. The rules are there because they reflect the truth and reality of the world in which we live. It is only in living in accordance with reality as it exists that humans can fulfill themselves on earth. To not be exposed to reality as it is can only hinder a person from fulfilling themselves on earth. That is to say, living the only life that will make them truly who they were supposed to be.

This also pre-supposes that ignorance if a more powerful means of getting to heaven than the grace of God available in the sacraments, which cannot be the case. Surely, someone who has the Sacrament of Reconciliation has a greater chance of being reconciled.

Also, the person who dies in a state of grace outside the Church will have to endure a much longer time in purgatory, all other things being equal. So, no, raise your child Catholic.
 
marci said:
This is a serious question. Would it be better for ones soul if one was not raised catholic, but rather some other form of christian/protestant sect? What if a catholic parent delibrately raised their child with the faith of the other non-catholic spouse (let’s say baptist), believing that this would be an easier road to salvation for their child. (I realize the grave sin for the catholic parent that exists, but that is not the focus of this hypothetical). With the modern view of the church that there is salvation outside of the catholic church for those who are “ignorant of the true faith” and who live life according to a good deveolped conscience, would it be better for them than for a catholic in constant struggle to live up to the teachings of the church, which is far more difficult a road to travel? Now, taking into account that they are “separated brethren” who are not in communion with the beauty of the true faith, they are (according to the church) still able to reach heaven. Here is an example which is somewhat different, but in the same spirit. Let’s say catholic parents do not approve of the marriage of their daughter. Based upon the character or maturity of their child, or future spouse, the parents believe the marriage will end in divorce. So the catholic parents convince the child to marry outside the church (justice of the peace) and have the marriage blessed later if things work out. That way if their were to be a divorce, the daughter would not be forbidden from remarriage in the church at a later date. I don’t personally know of anyone who has or would do this, but I’m sure there have been cases in which this has happened. Now, the catholic who essentialy uses church teaching to get around the rules would be in serious trouble, but what about the “ignorant party”? According to the modern church teaching they are not expected to play by the same rules.

I understand that I am being a little provacative and perhaps far reaching with my hypotheticals, but I believe that these are some of the problems that come out of a more tolerable, ecumenical modern church. Just playing devils advocate, but I would love to see the diaologe about this issue.
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Hmmm. Better if not raised Catholic?
Listen our priest recently went on vacation. While he was at the SF airport the pamphleteers, (you know who they are) came and asked him if he believed in God? And he said yes. They did not know he was a priest as he was in regular clothes. They asked him if he knew he could be saved. Yes. What religion was he? Catholic. Why not follow the true Church and God they asked? And he said “Because, you know what? God loves all men. God loves those in other religions. God loves even those who do not love Him. But God prefers Catholics.”
And they left.
 
I think others have mentioned very good points. The problem I often see is jumping to extremes. Some see the Church saying others can be saved, and therefore jump to the extreme that it is saying it doesn’t matter what religion you are. Some see the Church saying no salvation outside the church, and jump to the extreme that if you aren’t Catholic you aren’t saved. The Church’s true position is usually more in the middle and very rational. Obviously it isn’t fair to condemn those who truly are seeking God but are ignorant. Likewise, it isn’t right to ignore that there is only the full truth within the Catholic Church.

Being a little scrupulous, nothing is more painful than the thought that I could go to hell by doing something that I didn’t even know was sinful or seriously sinful. Luckily, the Church doesn’t teach this. I’m not sure why anyone wouldn’t want to believe that non-Catholics can be saved. We as Catholics may be held to a higher standard by having a fuller knowledge of truth, but we are given more assistance and grace to follow this truth. Ultimately, that means we may be able to follow God more closely, avoid greater temporal punishment, avoid the problems sinful behavior brings, and have an even greater chance of reaching heaven.

To add to the hypotheticals, you might as well ask if it is better to take heavy drugs during pregnancy so the child is born so mentally challenged they lack the capacity for sin. With our higher level of thinking skills, that means we have a greater responsibility to avoid sin, but it also brings about many gifts and joys not otherwise obtainable as well. It is the similar with being Catholic in my opinion.
 
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