Would it be wrong for a Catholic to do Tai Chi for excercise?

[Lion_of_Narnia]

Many in the AMA (Asian Martial Arts) delude themselves to the efficacy of the internal-mystical arts (warning, below link has explicit portrayl of a martial arts “match”

youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

The above is an extreme example of self-delusion.

Saul/Paul of Tarsus probably would NOT have trained in Pankration as that was taught in greek style gymnasiums–where one trained naked–and as a observant Jew such would have been forbidden to him

 

[TimeEntrance]

Thanks for the counter opinion about St. Paul, Lion of Narnia.

 

[Kasmalim]

The rest of your post is based on this assertion but you do not even care to elaborate or defend its glaring logical inconsistency.

If it is as natural as electricity, then why is it sinful and electricity is not? You can kill with electricity too you know.

A couple of posts back you said that it is “invoking powers outside of oneself”, but that’s incorrect. You usually get the energy from your own mind; it’s as such a part of the human body as your electric nerve impulses. Right now you yourself have a whole lot of chi inside your body.

You know, if we went back in time a couple of hundred years with a laser pointer, everyone would call it magic, even if they didn’t have a clue as to how it works. They’d no doubt think it unnatural too. Chi is sort of like that. Today all that scientists can detect is the heat signature of chi, and also a kind of pressure, but I don’t doubt they’ll come a day when chi will be in science textbooks everywhere.

Much to the annoyance of atheists, there’s a lot that science can’t explain yet. I was watching that show “Stan Lee’s Superhumans” a week back, and there was this man who could see without his eyes (he was blind); he’d get visual information from his body somehow. They tested him but couldn’t understand why or how he worked that way. I can’t remember him saying he practiced anything to gain that ability, so was he sinning then?

Lastly, why is chi anymore sinful than electricity? Don’t we invoke the power of electricity from outside ourselves? Did you know that harnessing chi can be as simple as doing pushups on a mountain (they’re said to have high levels of chi)?

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s bad to practice chi if you’re going to be influenced by false eastern philosophies and beliefs, but chi in itself is not evil.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Much to the annoyance of atheists, there’s a lot that science can’t explain yet. I was watching that show “Stan Lee’s Superhumans” a week back, and there was this man who could see without his eyes (he was blind); he’d get visual information from his body somehow. They tested him but couldn’t understand why or how he worked that way. I can’t remember him saying he practiced anything to gain that ability, so was he sinning then?

Funny you should mention because a couple posts back, I was actually hinting to that show myself

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s bad to practice chi if you’re going to be influenced by false eastern philosophies and beliefs, but chi in itself is not evil.

Well it is just that your first post here was giving that impression (at least, to me).

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

… You usually get the energy from your own mind; it’s as such a part of the human body as your electric nerve impulses. Right now you yourself have a whole lot of chi inside your body.

You know, if we went back in time a couple of hundred years with a laser pointer, everyone would call it magic, even if they didn’t have a clue as to how it works. They’d no doubt think it unnatural too. Chi is sort of like that. Today all that scientists can detect is the heat signature of chi, and also a kind of pressure, but I don’t doubt they’ll come a day when chi will be in science textbooks everywhere…

The “chi” claimants have had decades to come forth with evidence-based, empirical proof. So far, nada, zip, zilch, zero. A blind guy who has learned to use his skin to get some sort of air pressure or heat sensation information hardly qualifies to the "chi as some form of distinct energy.

A few years ago, there was this fad among nurses of “manipulating body energy fields” for healing. The theory was blown out of the water by a 11 year old girl who conducted simple double-blind experiments using a cardboard screen to make sure the practitioners couldn’t see if there was a hand underneath their hand. The results came up right into the random chance category. (Of course, the practitioners and defenders of this energy manipulation came up will all sorts of post facto excuses for the failure)

The late Kempo Karate master Ed Parker, a man of immense martial skill, was quite down to earth about “chi”–which he defined as a synergy of muscle, technique, breath control, and mental focus to produce some outstanding results but quite within normal, physical explanations

 

[Kasmalim]

That’s because it currently goes beyond the realm of modern-science. How can they record it? How can they test it? Chi is not at all physical, so it’s no wonder the western world is clueless about chi.

People seem to think when scientists test the validity of chi it’s supposed to make world headlines or something, while in fact it would have the opposite effect - a scientist would look like a moron for even believing in it; sort of like a certain noble prize winner who’s research claimed that certain races are inferior - now no one wants anything to do with him, even if no one could disclaim his research.

You misunderstood what I said before. That blind man didn’t say he uses chi, and he didn’t make heat sensations; his body would take in visual information, he could “see” colors, shapes, everything, even blindfolded. I advise you watch the show “Stan Lee’s Superhumans”, they test people scientifically, and they can’t explain many things. One man was taken to a ranch and he made a bison (I think?) fall asleep, using chi, from a distance, without even making eye contact with the animal. Another man, who happened to be a monk, put a drill to his stomach, neck, and head and the drill could only pierce a portion of his skin. When they tested how much force he was using to push the drill, they said it was as if two grown men were standing on the drill. I’ve read about this form of chi manipulation myself - it’s known as Iron Shirt Chi Gung. There was also this program on National Geographic, it’s called Fight Science I believe, and they showed another person who uses the Iron Shirt. Even though he was heavily tested, they could not explain anything. They would hit him with lots of force, and all it did was cause some redness.

There’ve been more than a few extraordinary cases of demonic possession, and infestation. Why, in all this time, has science’s only answer been “those people are crazy”? Sooner or later, science will understand it, but for now just because they can’t identify something certainly doesn’t mean it can’t exist.

 

[Robert_Caritas]

You misunderstood what I said before. That blind man didn’t say he uses chi, and he didn’t make heat sensations; his body would take in visual information, he could “see” colors, shapes, everything, even blindfolded. I advise you watch the show “Stan Lee’s Superhumans”, they test people scientifically, and they can’t explain many things. One man was taken to a ranch and he made a bison (I think?) fall asleep, using chi, from a distance, without even making eye contact with the animal. Another man, who happened to be a monk, put a drill to his stomach, neck, and head and the drill could only pierce a portion of his skin. When they tested how much force he was using to push the drill, they said it was as if two grown men were standing on the drill. I’ve read about this form of chi manipulation myself - it’s known as Iron Shirt Chi Gung.

Yes, Chi manipulation is very real. As I said a few posts earlier I have witnessed it being used expertly, and was even taught a bit how to do it in a kind of kung-fu called Fut-Gar. But magic is also real, and God has given me the chance in this day in age (at least the chance to know that it is real and to stay away from it) to witness someone doing some of that as well. I got a much worse feeling from the magic, but from a third person point of view, I can’t say that there was a huge difference between some of the magic and chi manipulation. It’s just willing some things to happen and they mysteriously do.

Though the guy using echo-location could not see colors (unless this is from another episode?). Echo-location is pretty well understood, but we don’t know how some blind people are able to do it (you actually have a school for blind people to learn echo-location somewhere).

That’s because it currently goes beyond the realm of modern-science. How can they record it? How can they test it? Chi is not at all physical, so it’s no wonder the western world is clueless about chi.

There’ve been more than a few extraordinary cases of demonic possession, and infestation. Why, in all this time, has science’s only answer been “those people are crazy”? Sooner or later, science will understand it, but for now just because they can’t identify something certainly doesn’t mean it can’t exist.

It is a dangerous way of thinking to say that science will certainly be able to prove something in the future, it just hasn’t reach gotten there yet. We should only accept as scientifically proven and provable things that actually are, and we should even be careful with this, as many scientist like to make extravagant interpretations of their results. I also find that many atheists make this claim when they don’t have an answer to something: “yeah, well science just hasn’t gotten their yet.” This is a very bad kind of faith!

Also, as Catholics we have the science of demonology to learn about demons. It takes bit of faith and some discernment to go through the information (and lots of prayer), but we have a systematic study of demonic reality. It’s not an empirical science, but I doubt that empirical sciences (with their exclusive focus on the material) will ever prove anything about demons. Though as I just argued for above, since it hasn’t been done, we shouldn’t let ourselves come to a negative or positive conclusion on this matter, it is simply unresolved.

 

[TimeEntrance]

Joe Rogan dismisses Kung Fu: youtube.com/watch?v=D9L5vr3HKdE

Kung Fu man responds to Joe Rogan: youtube.com/watch?v=_0gDsL247e8

“Baby monkey” is “Leg whacking.”

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Awesome post, Arizona Mike. I agree with much of what you’ve said.

Although, while I’m an admire of the Gracie Family and BJJ, I think we should recognize too that MMA has had its effect on BJJ players that enter MMA. Today, in that genre of sports combat you have to be more than just a grappler.

I’d also take a different view of TMA (Traditional Martial Arts) than you. I think many - not all - TMA’s have a lot to offer in terms of real life combat where BJJ or MMA may be lacking.

For example, I don’t advise anyone to go to the ground when being attacked by two, three, or more people. I also know from personal experience - even after having received novice boxing instruction - that a real life attack can come under low visibility, include sticks, or thrown bricks, all while being closed in on from different angles.

I read a short book excerpt written by an experienced Corrections Officer in a U.S. prison… that no martial arts or boxing can prepare you for all settings or environmental conditions. He gave the example of fighting in a shower room naked or entering a bathroom with human blood on the floor making it slippery. I’ve often asked myself how I would respond and engage if assaulted on a moving public bus, or seated in a tight position on a very crowded bus.

Personally, I think pagan and Catholic dominated FMA (Filipino Martial Arts) has a lot to offer. Although, the Doce Pare system I trained in (named in part after a legend of 12 bodyguards of Catholic Charlemagne, and in part after the the systems Filipino founders) appears to me to have adapted their stick techniques to the end of machete combat, because the stick battles are too close. The Muslim dominate Silat has something to offer too. At least one style from Brunei.

(I think FMA teaches how to grapple on the ground with a knife and/or when your opponent on the ground has a knife - BJJ doesn’t)

Tai Chi is good for those it helps physically. But I personally don’t regard it much for real life combat.

This is how some Muslims get down in the 21st Century: youtube.com/watch?v=NLx0PYvvxJ0

This is how some Catholics get down in the 21st Century in the so-called “War on Terrorism”: http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYTfb1gJf0Q (the sticks represent machetes).

Filipino Marines again but with knife and real machete: youtube.com/watch?v=GvD0ebc1MAE

The FMA are great, I trained with Dan Inosanto, Marc Denny, and Steve Tarani. Amazing stuff.