Would it be wrong to disobey an "immoral" command given by God Himself?

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Obviously the story of Abraham comes to mind, but with all the teaching and talks of “teesting the spirits” and “by their fruits you shall know them”, would that be sufficient justification for refusing an immoral command (such as kill your son) given by God?

Since the fruit of this command is death, I’d be inclined to think this spirit was Satan appearing as an angel of light, and so it would be a no brainer and I would reject the command. But what if it was God and thought it was Satan? Would He understand that I did it out of love , or would He hold it against me for disobeying His command?
 
1ke said:
No command of God’s is immoral.
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Since such an answer without explanation to the inquirer might be confusing and dis-satisfactory, I will elaborate.

God has the right to give life and take it away, because He is the Creator. Every day, he takes lives away and brings the souls of the dead to Himself, or permits them to cast themselves into the flames of Hell if they were souls who rejected Him during their lives.

Thus, for God to command a person to take the life of another person is not immoral, because God has the right to take life. The person who he commands to do the deed does so by His command, and thus they are not culpable for murder because it is not murder.
 
dshix said:
Since such an answer without explanation to the inquirer might be confusing and dis-satisfactory, I will elaborate.

God has the right to give life and take it away, because He is the Creator. Every day, he takes lives away and brings the souls of the dead to Himself, or permits them to cast themselves into the flames of Hell if they were souls who rejected Him during their lives.

Thus, for God to command a person to take the life of another person is not immoral, because God has the right to take life. The person who he commands to do the deed does so by His command, and thus they are not culpable for murder because it is not murder.
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And if a person obeyed the command and it turned out that it was Satan appearing as an angel of light after all wanting to cause murder and mayhem, would the person be culpable then?
 
Thorns said:
And if a person obeyed the command and it turned out that it was Satan appearing as an angel of light after all wanting to cause murder and mayhem, would the person be culpable then?
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Methinks God would not allow Himself to be so misrepresented without interference.

You are asking a hypothetical which has never happened and never will.
 
This is a great question!! Can’t wait to see more responses. I feel like I’d figure it was Satan too, and be like “no way, get out of here.”
 
from my perspective, we have to be quiet adavanced in our spiritual life to discern the voice of God.

Abraham was quiet advanced in his spiritual life, and he knew he was talking to God.

many of us are not so far along in our spiritual life, and hnece cant discern whether the voice that spoke to me was from God or from teh devil.

I am trying (trying as i ahve not suceeded) when a thought comes to my mind, to offer it to God, if the thought still nags me then try ascertain the real cause of that thought.
am i thinking of this because i hate that person, or ist because my pride has been hurt , am i feeling revengful.

To discern Gods plan, is the most challenging , but something we all have to strive to do it.

Also God will never gives us tempattions that we cant handle, like we wouldnt ask a child to carry something that he wont be able to. God wont aks us to do something that he thinks we wouldnt be bale to discern whetehr its from Him, even after surrendring it to Him.

Also when we make mistakes , he will turn everything to the advantage of those love Him and seek to do His will
 
God was never going to actually make Abraham kill his own son. He was testing his faith to see if Abraham would put God first, or his son. Needless to say, God was always first in Abraham’s life, so he passed the test. Abraham was an old man and his son was a young man who most likely could have overpowered him so it looks like his son put God first as well. The story is intended to teach us to trust in God and to put him first in our lives, even above members of our family whom we love.

This was a special circumstance because Abraham was very advanced in his spiritual life and God was going to start a new nation and a new covenant through those people. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and we are now in a new covenant that will last until the end of the world.

Yes, there are demons that portray themselves as angels of light but you can test them by seeing what they command of you. Hint: if it goes against Church teaching, it’s not from God. Even if the stuff they said at the beginning appeared to be good or neutral (dark force trying to win your trust before getting at what they really want from you).
 
When the voices in my head tell me to kill someone close to me, I take a little blue pill and go to bed. It has worked so far but if it is God I hope he understands…For some reason God has taken a distinct dislike to my mother-in-law. Discernment, that is what I need.
 
dshix said:
Methinks God would not allow Himself to be so misrepresented without interference.

You are asking a hypothetical which has never happened and never will.
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Satan appearing as an angel of light has never happened? Then why the need to test the spirits?
 
1ke said:
No command of God’s is immoral.
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The response that God as the Creator and “owner” in some sense of all life can use people as instruments to bring others to himself is interesting and not one I’ve considered before. However, the above response (which borders on tautology) is the right answer.

God isn’t good because we’re extraordinarily lucky to have a loving and merciful God rather than a wrathful one. God is good because He defines what it means to be ‘good.’ Our ideas of what is good are subsequent to God’s creation and ordering of the Universe in such a way as to align with His nature. We have a sense of right and wrong which align with God’s law because he gave us this sense. This is the Natural Law.

In this sense, God cannot command something which is immoral, because whatever God does defines morality. The Christian understanding of God is of an eternal, unchanging God. His Will is entirely consistent with itself through time and space (although our perception of it isn’t–hence the apparent differences between the God of Abraham and the God of Jesus).

This is one place where our Muslim brothers stray from a correct conception of God. Allah isn’t bound by any requirements to be consistent and can literally do anything that strikes his fancy. A pious Muslim would probably agree with my reasoning in the 2nd paragraph, and would accordingly feel no compunction about doing anything Allah commanded. Blowing up a marketplace or shooting a girl on a schoolbus might seem bad in a normal context, but if Allah, who defines Good and Evil has ordered you to do it, in this specific instance it is defined as Good.

To help us in such a situation, we do have the Church to help us discern whether what you are interpreting as a message from God is really that or not. Demons have been whispering things in the ears of man since Adam, so if it seems to be contrary to the Natural Law, it probably isn’t from God or any pious supernatural being because He isn’t fickle.

I hope this helps.
 
Cicero_NOLA said:
Demons have been whispering things in the ears of man since Adam, so if it seems to be contrary to the Natural Law, it probably isn’t from God or any pious supernatural being because He isn’t fickle.
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Isnt the command itself, to kill your son, against Natural Law?
 
Thorns said:
Isnt the command itself, to kill your son, against Natural Law?
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The command to kill Isaac was not immoral because God would have raised Abraham’s son from the dead.

By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son, of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your descendants be named.” He considered that God was able to raise men even from the dead; hence, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. (Hebrews 11:17-19)

God first told Abraham that the descendants of Isaac would be as numerous as the sand in the sea. God then told Abraham to kill Issac. Abraham therefor, correctly reasoned that God was able to raise people from the dead. The only conclusion Abraham could draw was that God would raise Isaac from the dead.

The command to kill Isaac therefor was not immoral - God would have raised him from the dead. It was a test to see if Abraham trusted that God would raise Isaac from the dead. Abraham passed the test.

-Tim-
 
I’m not sure where your question is coming from.
Our country will tell us to kill. Is it right or wrong to comply? It depends on the situation.
People with mental illness are frequently the victims of violence, but there are occasional dramatic stories of individuals acting on command hallucinations that tell them to kill.
Yours seems a very hypothetical question that I have never personally encountered.
Can you be specific about a situation where you feel God is telling you to do something that seems wrong.
 
Aloysium said:
I’m not sure where your question is coming from.
Our country will tell us to kill. Is it right or wrong to comply? It depends on the situation.
People with mental illness are frequently the victims of violence, but there are occasional dramatic stories of individuals acting on command hallucinations that tell them to kill.
Yours seems a very hypothetical question that I have never personally encountered.
Can you be specific about a situation where you feel God is telling you to do something that seems wrong.
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I did give the example of Abraham being commanded to kill his son.

If Abraham has disobeyed because he felt the command was issued by Satan appearing as God, would God have been upset with him?
 
TimothyH said:
The command to kill Isaac was not immoral because God would have raised Abraham’s son from the dead.

By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son, of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your descendants be named.” He considered that God was able to raise men even from the dead; hence, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. (Hebrews 11:17-19)

God first told Abraham that the descendants of Isaac would be as numerous as the sand in the sea. God then told Abraham to kill Issac. Abraham therefor, correctly reasoned that God was able to raise people from the dead. The only conclusion Abraham could draw was that God would raise Isaac from the dead.

The command to kill Isaac therefor was not immoral - God would have raised him from the dead. It was a test to see if Abraham trusted that God would raise Isaac from the dead. Abraham passed the test.

-Tim-
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Is the command itself to kill your son not objectively against Church teaching and against Natural Law?

Of course I know God can raise the dead, but Satan cant. And if a person misjudged and thought it was God, the person would remain dead.

So i guess my issue is the very command itself, regardless of who issues it because Im judging the fruits of that action, not necessarily the person.whos commanding.

But to get this straight with everyone to further illustrate my point and hang up, for those who say anything God says, by definition, is moral…

If Satan says to sleep with my neighbors wife = Immoral

If God says to sleep with my neighbors wife = Moral

Would that be correct? The command is the very same, but it all depends on who’s giving it? Would it be safe to assume that morality is actually subjective?
 
It may seem immoral to our senses, but for God it’s not, as in the case of Abraham, God was simply testing Abraham’s faith. If Abraham had thought that he was satan, he was satan. If Abraham had thought it’s God who spoke to Him, it was God. Since God’s purpose was to test Abraham’s obedience and faith, God in His Almighty power had not allowed the devil to take the scene so as not to confuse Abraham.
 
Somebody let me know when the Almighty commands such a thing…:rolleyes:

The fact is that it’s not God’s transmissions that are the problem, but our receivers are sometimes badly screwed up.

God cannot do anything or ask anything of us that is immoral.
 
Church_Militant said:
Somebody let me know when the Almighty commands such a thing…:rolleyes:
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Samuel 15: 1-19

"I am the one theLordsent to anointfyou king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from theLord.2This is what theLordAlmighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekitesgfor what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt.3Now go, attack the Amalekites and totallyhdestroyaall that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
 
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