would it have been possible to be a confederate and a devout catholic?

[Odell]

Hi Odell! Hope you’re having a good day today!

The Vatican doesn’t have slaves. The Vatican has nothing to do with states’ rights. The Pope has no political power in the US, just a diplomatic relationship. Also, the Church is a spiritual kingdom while the US is a political and earthly one. I can render unto Caesar and to God; but you would have me render unto two different Caesars (American and Confederate). To me, that is the difference between the comparisons you put forth.

To each his own (it’s a free country) but the math doesn’t add up:

1. US is one nation
2. South secedes
3. North and South fight
4. North wins (or South surrenders, whichever you want to call it)
5. US reunited as one nation

Seems a bit like being a Redskins fan, then the Redskins lose to Dallas. But since they’re both NFC teams, you root for a Cowboys player during the Pro Bowl.

I will never root for the Dallas Cowboys or any of their players.

But yes, the Rebel Flag (the one the racists like to fly) represents nothing good to me because I’m not a WASP. Even though the other flag designs also represent the Confederate, I found myself feeling 99.9% less hostile inside when looking at them.

I am doing well thanks and i really do value your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I dont fly the stars and bars because I do not want to be perceved as something I am not. But you do have to realise that some of those who do fly it might not at all be racist.

And I know the church has nothing to do with state rights. Thats why I have two flags one reprosents my political views the other my religious views I dont feel that there are any contradictions. I know some very bad things have come with stated rights “slavery” but some have come with the Union as well segregating Indians maybe a couple wars that should not have been fought

I feel I can still be a proud american and confederate allow me to explain

My america that im proud of and that I feel was founded by the fathers had state rights. We were still united and proud americans. But the south had a right given to them by God and the founding fathers in the Decleration of independence

“whenever any form of government becomes destructive of the ends for which it was established, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, . . .”

They were simply exersising that right. Thats what im proud of it took some kind of courage.

Hey though we know who won even though slavery might have been abolished in the near future the outcome of the war freed them sooner. Amen to that. I just wish the south would have abolished it own there own before the war.

hey thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut God bless.

 

[BouncingBall]

I am doing well thanks and i really do value your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I dont fly the stars and bars because I do not want to be perceved as something I am not. But you do have to realise that some of those who do fly it might not at all be racist.

And I know the church has nothing to do with state rights. Thats why I have two flags one reprosents my political views the other my religious views I dont feel that there are any contradictions. I know some very bad things have come with stated rights “slavery” but some have come with the Union as well segregating Indians maybe a couple wars that should not have been fought

I feel I can still be a proud american and confederate allow me to explain

My america that im proud of and that I feel was founded by the fathers had state rights. We were still united and proud americans. But the south had a right given to them by God and the founding fathers in the Decleration of independence

“whenever any form of government becomes destructive of the ends for which it was established, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, . . .”

They were simply exersising that right. Thats what im proud of it took some kind of courage.

Hey though we know who won even though slavery might have been abolished in the near future the outcome of the war freed them sooner. Amen to that. I just wish the south would have abolished it own there own before the war.

hey thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut God bless.

OK, Odell; that makes sense to me. Actually, the more I think about this thread during the day, the more I understand the position of modern Confederates who are Catholic.

I do find it curious that the Civil War is the only war that gets re-enacted. So no one wants to recreate WW1, 2, Korea, Vietnam, 100 Years War, French-Indian, 7 Years War, Battle of Hastings… just the Civil War. Hm. Anyone want to educate me about that?

A list of things that I like about the South: drive-thru Krispy Kremes, 24-hour Waffle House, good home cooking, friendly people (the ones that are not racist rednecks), friendly rednecks, one can enjoy a cigarette and a beer without self-righteous glances from others, country music, southern rap music, mild winters, low cost of living, Florida (except Miami), ample church-going, guilt-free buffet restaurants, Luby’s, low cost of cigarettes (SC), Charles Town Race Track, Paula Deen, Lil Wayne, Lynyrd Skynyrd.

 

[proudnifi]

I do find it curious that the Civil War is the only war that gets re-enacted. So no one wants to recreate WW1, 2, Korea, Vietnam, 100 Years War, French-Indian, 7 Years War, Battle of Hastings… just the Civil War. Hm. Anyone want to educate me about that?
.

It isn’t true that the War Between the States is the only war that is reenacted.

For example, every January the Chalmette Battlefield (just outside New Orleans, LA) has a reenactment of the Battle of New Orleans, the last battle of the War of 1812. There are reenactments from the (American) Revolutionary War in Greensboro, NC, of the Battle of Guilford Courthouse. I know there are more, but these two sprang to mind as I have visited these places.

I wouldn’t expect reenactments in the US of wars not fought here (or without significant battles/skirmishes here). Also, many people consider the French-Indian War to be the American theatre of the 7 Years War. For fun, I googled a little bit and found there have been reenactments in Jumonville, PA, re: the French-Indian War.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

It isn’t true that the War Between the States is the only war that is reenacted.

You’ve never been to the Alamo or Boston?

 

[Charybdis]

I’m a Civil War reenactor and while we do get most of the press as far as reenacting goes, there are many other wars that get some reenactments as others have posted.

Beleive it or not, I know a guy who is part of a group that does WWII reenactments. Not sure how they do it, but they do…

 

[Odell]

OK, Odell; that makes sense to me. Actually, the more I think about this thread during the day, the more I understand the position of modern Confederates who are Catholic.

I do find it curious that the Civil War is the only war that gets re-enacted. So no one wants to recreate WW1, 2, Korea, Vietnam, 100 Years War, French-Indian, 7 Years War, Battle of Hastings… just the Civil War. Hm. Anyone want to educate me about that?

A list of things that I like about the South: drive-thru Krispy Kremes, 24-hour Waffle House, good home cooking, friendly people (the ones that are not racist rednecks), friendly rednecks, one can enjoy a cigarette and a beer without self-righteous glances from others, country music, southern rap music, mild winters, low cost of living, Florida (except Miami), ample church-going, guilt-free buffet restaurants, Luby’s, low cost of cigarettes (SC), Charles Town Race Track, Paula Deen, Lil Wayne, Lynyrd Skynyrd.

you need to listen to Tim Mcgraws soung southern voice. Here are the lyrics

Hank Williams sang it
Number 3 drove it
Chuck Berry twanged it
Will Faulkner wrote it
Aretha Franklin sold it
Dolly Parton graced it
Rosa Parks rode it
Scarlett O chased it

Smooth as the hickory wind
That blows from Memphis
Down to Appalachicola
It’s hi ya’ll did ya eat well
Come on in I’m
Sure glad to know ya
Don’t let this old gold cross
An’ this Allman Brothers t-shirt throw ya
It’s cicadas making noise
With the southern voice

Hank Aaron smacked it
Michael Jordan dunked it
Pocahantas tracked it
Jack Daniels drunk it
Tom Petty rocked it
Dr. King paved it
Bear Bryant won it
Billy Graham saved it

Smooth as the hickory wind
That blows from Memphis
Down to Appalachicola
It’s hi ya’ll did ya eat well
Come on in I’m
Sure glad to know ya
Don’t let this old gold cross
An’ this Crimson Tide t-shirt throw ya
It’s cicadas making noise
With the southern voice

Jesus is my friend
America is my home
Sweet iced tea and Jerry Lee
Daytona Beach
That’s what gets to me
I can feel it in my bones

Smooth as the hickory wind
That blows from Memphis
Down to Appalachicola
It’s hi ya’ll did ya eat well
Come on in child
I’m sure glad to know ya
Don’t let this old gold cross
An’ this Charlie Daniels t-shirt throw ya
We’re just boys making noise
With the southern voice

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Southern Voice
I got a southern voice
A southern voice

And your not the only one who has not ever heard of other reinactments! Im sure they would be fun to go to. Have you ever seen big brothers I think that is the name of the movie they fight with plastic sords and potions its pretty funny.

I dont preferre to be called red neck im country but I know alot of black country people as well. I mean boots and hat country. I dont wear a cowboy hat I like how I look in one but cant see myself going out in public with one on

I dont take offense to red neck when called one but I think if you knew me you would probly clasify me as country rather than red neck.

God bless tell me what you think of the song.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Hey…don’t forget about Jimmy Swaggart, Jerry Lee Lewis, Southern Women with that beautiful southern drawl, The Citadel (even VMI I guess LOL), Deer Hunting, SEC, etc

A list of things that I like about the South: drive-thru Krispy Kremes, 24-hour Waffle House, good home cooking, friendly people (the ones that are not racist rednecks), friendly rednecks, one can enjoy a cigarette and a beer without self-righteous glances from others, country music, southern rap music, mild winters, low cost of living, Florida (except Miami), ample church-going, guilt-free buffet restaurants, Luby’s, low cost of cigarettes (SC), Charles Town Race Track, Paula Deen, Lil Wayne, Lynyrd Skynyrd.

 

[BouncingBall]

you need to listen to Tim Mcgraws soung southern voice. Here are the lyrics

Hank Williams sang it
Number 3 drove it
Chuck Berry twanged it
Will Faulkner wrote it
Aretha Franklin sold it
Dolly Parton graced it
Rosa Parks rode it
Scarlett O chased it

Smooth as the hickory wind
That blows from Memphis
Down to Appalachicola
It’s hi ya’ll did ya eat well
Come on in I’m
Sure glad to know ya
Don’t let this old gold cross
An’ this Allman Brothers t-shirt throw ya
It’s cicadas making noise
With the southern voice

Hank Aaron smacked it
Michael Jordan dunked it
Pocahantas tracked it
Jack Daniels drunk it
Tom Petty rocked it
Dr. King paved it
Bear Bryant won it
Billy Graham saved it

Smooth as the hickory wind
That blows from Memphis
Down to Appalachicola
It’s hi ya’ll did ya eat well
Come on in I’m
Sure glad to know ya
Don’t let this old gold cross
An’ this Crimson Tide t-shirt throw ya
It’s cicadas making noise
With the southern voice

Jesus is my friend
America is my home
Sweet iced tea and Jerry Lee
Daytona Beach
That’s what gets to me
I can feel it in my bones

Smooth as the hickory wind
That blows from Memphis
Down to Appalachicola
It’s hi ya’ll did ya eat well
Come on in child
I’m sure glad to know ya
Don’t let this old gold cross
An’ this Charlie Daniels t-shirt throw ya
We’re just boys making noise
With the southern voice

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Southern Voice
I got a southern voice
A southern voice

And your not the only one who has not ever heard of other reinactments! Im sure they would be fun to go to. Have you ever seen big brothers I think that is the name of the movie they fight with plastic sords and potions its pretty funny.

I dont preferre to be called red neck im country but I know alot of black country people as well. I mean boots and hat country. I dont wear a cowboy hat I like how I look in one but cant see myself going out in public with one on

I dont take offense to red neck when called one but I think if you knew me you would probly clasify me as country rather than red neck.

God bless tell me what you think of the song.

Odell,

Yep! Not mad at the song! He’s right, I love iced tea the correct way (Southern style with more sugar than the spice aisle)! And yes, I do like the Southern drawl. A lot of awesome things that are 101% American are from the South.

I concur, maybe redneck is a bad term but what about Jeff Foxworthy “You Might Be a Redneck” ? He’s not a racist type of redneck. Obviously lol. So, I appreciate rednecks.

I like this thread; I’m learning a lot here! Like, there are other wars re-enacted besides the Civil War, about the finer points of American history, and not all Confederates are racists or pro-slavery. How cool is THAT?

More things I like about the South: the red dirt of Georgia, casino boats on the Mississippi.

God bless everyone today!

 

[FrankLJ]

I knew this question would bring out all the neo-confederates,’ the Yankees used moralistic excuses to subjugate the South for personal profit, etc.’. This is not the part of cyberspace for those discussions. But to briefly answer before getting back on topic:

If anyone wants to know what sharpened up states rights to the point of asserting a right to secession by the South (which is arguable), there is a remarkable little book called ‘Apostles of Disunion’. It records the activities of the ‘commisioners’ sent by seceding states to talk other states into seceding. All their arguments are given in the appendix, which is about half the book.

Read the appendix only, if you like, so as to get the full blast of their thinking and arguments. There you will have the seceders themselves, telling you what is on their minds, without any modern gloss. Then you will know why the war was fought.

Also recommended is ‘The declaration of causes of the seceding states’, found at www.civilwar.org. This has five original seceding states published declarations as to why they had taken this action. Again, no need to read modern historians if you don’t want to, just look at the arguments given. Georgia goes on about the tariff a little, but otherwise there is a remarkable agreement as to the nature and causes of the rupture. Texas is specialy clear in the part beginning ‘We hold as undeniable truths…’.

To answer the OP; of course you could be a confederate and a devout catholic. Many slaveholders have been throughout history, many confederates were catholic. Especially in Louisiana. Not sure why the question came up, could you explain why you wondered?

Something I have always wondered about in relation to the Civil War and Catholics has to do with Jefferson Davis, the confederate leader. When Davis was held for a couple of years after the war, Pope Pius IX is supposed to have sent him a photo of himself, signed with the words of Matthew 11:28. Also, a scarf with a woven crown of thorns ( though that may have been an addition by Davis’ wife). Why? What was the Pope’s interest in this?

 

[Tzimisce]

I’m proud of my southern heritage and I’m a fan of state rights. Unfortunately state rights justified slavery I of course disagree with slavery. I know the constitution says we the people have the right to stand up and defeat the government if it no longer represents the people. This in my opinion is what the south was fighting for. And this is what I’m proud of as a southerner. But I’m also a devout catholic there’s not anything wrong with that is it?

I think you can be a Catholic and proud of being a southern.

Yes - one could be a Catholic and a Confederate.

There were slaves in the Old Testament.

Jesus himself died obeying an unjust law. He was innocent, but the state decided to put him to death anyway. He accepted his fate.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

It is long about time we put the Civil War behind us.

The best quote came from the most famous General of that war…

“War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”— William Tecumseh Sherman

 

[livingwordunity]

If the south had the money how did they lose? Was it because the north was so industrialized and could make near bout anything?

They lost because Lincoln came up with the idea of offering the slaves their freedom in exchange for joining the North in the fight. I think it was a military tactic.

 

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