Would someone help by way of clarification with this question>?

[Randy_Carson]

Steve Ray was a Baptist…now a Catholic. He addresses the question here:

The Cross and the Crucifix
by Steve Ray
catholic-convert.com/wp-content/uploads/Documents/CrossCrucifix.doc

 

[dee_burk]

I have heard Protestants prefer to focus on Christ’s Resurrection rather the Crucifixion.and will display an image of Christ Risen.

True story,

our parish had a wonderful pancake breakfast put on by the K of C. A woman stopped at the office and asked the secretary where they were having it. Of course there is a beautiful crucifix hanging in her office. the woman looked at it and remarked something like “why do you have that hanging in here, its ugly”…The secretary (cradle Catholic) mentioned it to me and i told her that most protestants detest the sight of a crucifix because they dont like to see our Lord and Savior like that and they use bare crosses as “he has resurrected”.

BUT…i must remind the ones i talk with that

1. sin is ugly,
2. Christ had to suffer that death because of our sins (Yes, even protestant sins) and
3. if they want to portray the resurrected Christ…why dont they use an empty tomb. He resurrected from the tomb not the cross…

i was raised protestant but have always felt drawn to the suffering Christ on the crucifix, because that was MY sins in his blood and anguish.

 

[Carlan]

True story,

our parish had a wonderful pancake breakfast put on by the K of C. A woman stopped at the office and asked the secretary where they were having it. Of course there is a beautiful crucifix hanging in her office. the woman looked at it and remarked something like “why do you have that hanging in here, its ugly”…The secretary (cradle Catholic) mentioned it to me and i told her that most protestants detest the sight of a crucifix because they dont like to see our Lord and Savior like that and they use bare crosses as “he has resurrected”.

BUT…i must remind the ones i talk with that

1. sin is ugly,
2. Christ had to suffer that death because of our sins (Yes, even protestant sins) and
3. if they want to portray the resurrected Christ…why dont they use an empty tomb. He resurrected from the tomb not the cross…

i was raised protestant but have always felt drawn to the suffering Christ on the crucifix, because that was MY sins in his blood and anguish.

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you. I have felt this way since, well, very long time ago.
I am just mystified how idolatry equalled worship growing up. And I am still not sure what idolatry actually is!!

Again, thank you.

Idolatry is to believe that something that is not God has power that belongs only to God,

For example, someone who believes that money saves you is making money an idol.

Someone who believes that a good education saves you is making a good education into an idol.

Someone who believes that sports saves you is making sports into an idol.

Another way of making an idol is to make that thing more important than God on the Lord’s Day. So, for example, someone who works (without being required to by necessity or by their employer) on a Sunday is making their work into an idol.

Someone who schedules their child’s hockey practices onto Sunday has made hockey into an idol.

Essentially, an idol is something / someone that has been set up in place of God - either taking the place of God on His day, or taking the place of God in terms of what God does for us.

Using a crucifix as an aid to prayer is the furthest thing from idolatry that you can get, IMHO.

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

My friend is Orthodox and she has a load of Icons in her house which she and her husband kiss quite frequently, to me its like having a picture of my late parents which I sometimes kiss, they kiss these Holy Icons out of Love for the Lord and Our Lady- how could one make idolatry out of this.

People go to see Abraham Lincoln, and various other pictures and Statues of Past American Presidents , if to stand in front of one and rub your hand on the Statue of a past President is that idolatry to me its a sign of devotion, respect, and saying Hey Mr. President I have read all about you and I liked your policies and what you stood for, you have my deep respect.

Is this what you mean by idolatrous . David in the Old Testament danced in front of the Ark of the Covenant - would this be considered idolatrous .

Since the Orthodox kiss there Icons and regard them as Holy, why would you consider this idolatrous, all they are saying Lord and Our Lady you know that I love you and I show you my respect by kissing a picture of you,

Someone praying in front of a Crucifix- praying and contemplating on the passion of the Lord, as it would be hard to pray and contemplate on the passion of Our Lord if we looked at a “Rose” the Crucifix is a reminder how Our Lord was killed, not the materials of the Cross, if anyone thought we were praying to the materials all I would say is :whacky::bigyikes: we would get a sample of metal and nails and put them in a photo frame and pray before that, does that make sense - no.

Having gone to a Church of England school they have misunderstood a lot of things, and are to lazy to ask and find out for themselves from a Catholic is this what you believe but prefer to go to
another Protestant and ask them thus the lies go around and around.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

The replies from Protestants on this site should show all of us that iconoclasm is not dead. It was resurrected during the Protestant Reformation and has never died out. It is particularly rabid in the Evangelical, Pentecostal, and Southern Baptist sects.

 

[concretecamper]

George Stegmeir:

The replies from Protestants on this site should show all of us that iconoclasm is not dead. It was resurrected during the Protestant Reformation and has never died out. It is particularly rabid in the Evangelical, Pentecostal, and Southern Baptist sects.

Why would you expect anything different. Most of these do not have traditions older than 100 years.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[Didascalia]

Protestants don’t like the image of Christ crucified on a cross, that is why there crosses lack the “craven image” of Christ. Christ was the word made flesh and the word was and is god, so any craven image of Christ a de-facto image of god, and of course, images of god are forbidden by, yes god, Emmanuel = God with us

 

[AbideWithMe]

My husband and I were Evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of our lives before converting to Catholicism.

The main reason why there are no crucifixes in Evangelical churches is that we serve a risen Savior. He’s no longer on the cross. Ask any Evangelical Protestant and they will give you some variation of that answer.

As for the “idolatry” issue–that’s not it at all. I’ve never heard that, and neither has my husband.

For some Evangelical Protestants, the issue with crucifixes is “graven images.” There are certain Evangelical Protestant sects and organizations that teach that ALL images of Christ are forbidden. J.I. Packer (RIP) was a highly-respected and popular Evangelical Protestant leader who taught this. He even went so far as to say “no pictures” of Jesus in children’s Sunday school and VBS material. And of course, no actors should ever portray Jesus–these groups would be opposed to movies like The Passion of the Christ or ANY play or movie in which a mere man portrayed Jesus.

Now don’t get the wrong idea. It’s not just a legalistic adherence to one of the Ten Commandments, although these verses are cited.

It’s far deeper than that. These “anti-God-image” Christians believe that any “image” of Christ is not worthy of Him, but rather, are mockeries of the Lord. So this mindset is actually extreme reverence for Jesus Christ.

It might be worth keeping this in mind if you are talking to Evangelical Protestants who seem offended by our images and artwork. Many Catholics are convinced that their beautiful church naves bring honor to the Lord Jesus through all the art work and sculptures. But this is not the mindset of certain Evangelical Protestants, who find these places offensive and insulting to the Lord Jesus Christ because of the images, including and especially the crucifix, which depicts a dead Christ instead of a living Christ.

And interestingly enough, I heard a priest speak once at a conference, and he said that images of God the Father are very rare, and the reason he gave is pretty much the same–that we can’t seem to create an image that is “worthy” of God the Father.

I hope that Catholics will respect the desire of these Protestants to be completely reverent to Jesus.

And I hope that this information helps answer the OP’s question.

Interestingly, more Evangelical Protestants ARE wearing or displaying crucifixes nowadays, as they learn about the theology of the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus on the cross.

One last comment–back when our daughters were still at home and we were all happily Protestant, our older daughter, who was about 13 at the time, said, “I don’t think our church should display a cross. To me, it’s like displaying an electric chair or a hangman’s noose–eugh!” Boy, did that statement ever make her Daddy and Mommy think! That daughter has since converted to Catholicism, BTW.

Cat has made a good point about the reluctant of some Protestants to depict Jesus in art—that there’s a deep reverence and belief that no art can capture His likeness worthily. I’ve come across that reverence in other people, and to be frank, sometimes I feel that way myself (sort of)**. It’s a mistake to condemn that profound reverence as an ignorant iconoclasm. For myself, I respect it and understand it in others, though I grew up seeing paintings of Jesus in the majority of both Evangelical and Mainline churches I set foot in.

** I hate admitting this, but some artwork (mostly old paintings) of Christ I’ve seen attracts my attention because it is, well…emotionally attractive: a handsome, dark-haired man with noble bearing. It’s definitely not any sort if sexual attraction. But, it just makes me wonder a little if I’d like the paintings as much if Jesus was only ever shown with an appearance to which I can’t relate. Or, if Mary was painted as a much less beautiful (and likewise noble) woman, would people still like their paintings and sculptures of her as much? It just makes me wonder…

Darn…now I need an emoticon of a smilie trying to stuff worms back in a can.

 

[MartinJordan]

Well, in Galatians St. Paul remarks that Jesus was clearly portrayed as crucified. So there is nothing wrong with showing a Crucified Christ; Paul obviously is preaching a Risen Christ too.

Personally I feel so much comforted to know Jesus suffered and died for me (and Rose ofcourse!) and that I should keep the vision in mind everywhere I go and when I speak to others to know being a Christian is carrying the Cross and following Jesus.

MJ

 

[Brandall]

In my usual fashion, I’m going to meander my way through my thoughts on the subject. In my Baptist background, I don’t remember seeing any images of of Christ on the cross except maybe in some pictures and most of those were pictures in the bible. There were crosses at church, in fact there was one at the top of the church steeple. They were all bare crosses.

I never thought much about it though I had heard that Catholics were idolaters. It wasn’t something that was ever given much attention, just something mentioned as fact. It seems like I might have heard the expression about how Jesus “came down off that cross”, but honestly, I’ve read it more on this forum than anywhere else.

The first time I was in the Catholic church I attend it was not a church function. The church had graciously loaned my daughter’s choir the use of their sanctuary for a concert. There is a huge, larger than life, cross with Jesus hanging on it over the alter. It was a bit startling to say the least.

It’s my opinion that the non catholic churches I’ve attended through the years, the attitude is more of a celebration than anything else. Jesus is risen, that’s the good news, that’s the story and most of what you heard.

More than any other church I’ve attended, the Catholic church focuses on the misery and the sacrifice of the crucifixion. I love mass and the Catholic church but honestly, lent was an incredibly miserable time the first time I lived through it. The focus on the misery is out front, the music is different, the stations of the cross, sacrifice, all of it was a huge culture shock. When I was a child, Easter meant baskets of candy, the bunny, new dress clothes for the year, etc. Maybe it’s different when you are raised that way but I would think that it must be miserable for a Catholic child having the season full of misery.

Now as an adult, I see that focusing on the brutality of what Jesus endured is important. Hopefully my next lent won’t be as hard since I better know what to expect. Regardless, for so many more reasons, Easter is fantastic in the Catholic church. For all the usual reasons of the risen savior and now to end the near endless reflection of misery of the savior.

I’m still in the same church with the larger than life crucifix hanging above the alter. You can see how the hands and feet were somewhat deformed by the nails being driven into them. And those are nails? Calling them nails seems so insufficient. They have to be so large to hold a body to wood, spikes or stakes seem a better term. Anyway, I see that depiction of the pain that must have been suffered, willingly but very painfully. It was done for me that deserves it not. There is no way I consider that an idol. It is a reminder of the life that was painfully forced from a man for my benefit in the cruelest manner. It’s a reminder of the sacrifice and a covenant that was for my benefit.

On Christmas, I can celebrate the birth and the promise to return again. On every other day, I can celebrate his sacrifice and ask for God’s help to make me more holy. During the relatively short period of lent, I must focus on his suffering which is the least I can do for him that did so much for me.

I’m not sure I’ll ever be one to wear a crucifix. I understand it and see the need for the reminder but it’s a bit brutal for me to wear. I really have no problem with a cross with the body or without. Both serve as a reminder. However, I’m grateful for the Catholic Church that has given me that visual image to drive home the point of the human part of the sacrifice.

 

[MartinJordan]

In my usual fashion, I’m going to meander my way through my thoughts on the subject. In my Baptist background, I don’t remember seeing any images of of Christ on the cross except maybe in some pictures and most of those were pictures in the bible. There were crosses at church, in fact there was one at the top of the church steeple. They were all bare crosses.

I never thought much about it though I had heard that Catholics were idolaters. It wasn’t something that was ever given much attention, just something mentioned as fact. It seems like I might have heard the expression about how Jesus “came down off that cross”, but honestly, I’ve read it more on this forum than anywhere else.

The first time I was in the Catholic church I attend it was not a church function. The church had graciously loaned my daughter’s choir the use of their sanctuary for a concert. There is a huge, larger than life, cross with Jesus hanging on it over the alter. It was a bit startling to say the least.

It’s my opinion that the non catholic churches I’ve attended through the years, the attitude is more of a celebration than anything else. Jesus is risen, that’s the good news, that’s the story and most of what you heard.

More than any other church I’ve attended, the Catholic church focuses on the misery and the sacrifice of the crucifixion. I love mass and the Catholic church but honestly, lent was an incredibly miserable time the first time I lived through it. The focus on the misery is out front, the music is different, the stations of the cross, sacrifice, all of it was a huge culture shock. When I was a child, Easter meant baskets of candy, the bunny, new dress clothes for the year, etc. Maybe it’s different when you are raised that way but I would think that it must be miserable for a Catholic child having the season full of misery.

Now as an adult, I see that focusing on the brutality of what Jesus endured is important. Hopefully my next lent won’t be as hard since I better know what to expect. Regardless, for so many more reasons, Easter is fantastic in the Catholic church. For all the usual reasons of the risen savior and now to end the near endless reflection of misery of the savior.

I’m still in the same church with the larger than life crucifix hanging above the alter. You can see how the hands and feet were somewhat deformed by the nails being driven into them. And those are nails? Calling them nails seems so insufficient. They have to be so large to hold a body to wood, spikes or stakes seem a better term. Anyway, I see that depiction of the pain that must have been suffered, willingly but very painfully. It was done for me that deserves it not. There is no way I consider that an idol. It is a reminder of the life that was painfully forced from a man for my benefit in the cruelest manner. It’s a reminder of the sacrifice and a covenant that was for my benefit.

On Christmas, I can celebrate the birth and the promise to return again. On every other day, I can celebrate his sacrifice and ask for God’s help to make me more holy. During the relatively short period of lent, I must focus on his suffering which is the least I can do for him that did so much for me.

I’m not sure I’ll ever be one to wear a crucifix. I understand it and see the need for the reminder but it’s a bit brutal for me to wear. I really have no problem with a cross with the body or without. Both serve as a reminder. However, I’m grateful for the Catholic Church that has given me that visual image to drive home the point of the human part of the sacrifice.

MJ

 

[Brandall]

My friend is Orthodox and she has a load of Icons in her house which she and her husband kiss quite frequently, to me its like having a picture of my late parents which I sometimes kiss, they kiss these Holy Icons out of Love for the Lord and Our Lady- how could one make idolatry out of this.

People go to see Abraham Lincoln, and various other pictures and Statues of Past American Presidents , if to stand in front of one and rub your hand on the Statue of a past President is that idolatry to me its a sign of devotion, respect, and saying Hey Mr. President I have read all about you and I liked your policies and what you stood for, you have my deep respect.

Is this what you mean by idolatrous . David in the Old Testament danced in front of the Ark of the Covenant - would this be considered idolatrous .

Since the Orthodox kiss there Icons and regard them as Holy, why would you consider this idolatrous, all they are saying Lord and Our Lady you know that I love you and I show you my respect by kissing a picture of you,

Someone praying in front of a Crucifix- praying and contemplating on the passion of the Lord, as it would be hard to pray and contemplate on the passion of Our Lord if we looked at a “Rose” the Crucifix is a reminder how Our Lord was killed, not the materials of the Cross, if anyone thought we were praying to the materials all I would say is :whacky::bigyikes: we would get a sample of metal and nails and put them in a photo frame and pray before that, does that make sense - no.

Having gone to a Church of England school they have misunderstood a lot of things, and are to lazy to ask and find out for themselves from a Catholic is this what you believe but prefer to go to
another Protestant and ask them thus the lies go around and around.

I was going to surgically snip this down to just the last paragraph but there was something else about which I wanted to comment and that is where I’ll start.

From my Baptist background the main things I heard about regarding idolatry with Catholics was that they had statues to which they prayed, Mary was elevated above Jesus, etc.

In the first place, when visiting Catholic Churches in my youth, I heard nothing that caused me alarm. The message of the begotten son being sacrificed for our sins was about the same, at least to my young ears. Though I will say that in my more mature state, the thoughts and descriptions given by the Catholic Church are more complete. No one prayed to Mary (out loud at least) and the focus was on the Christ. I immediately assumed there was confusion regarding what Catholics believed.

I’ve never had any problems with the statues and if asked about it now, is it any worse than if a protestant church has pictures of former pastors? Are they worshiping these men? Is it worse than a cornerstone plaque in a church that mentions the pastor and the elders of a church? None of that seems like Idolatry to me.

In those protestants (I’m lumping them altogether though in reality that isn’t fair but for economy’s sake, serves my purpose) defense, in the 1960s and 1970s there was no internet. If anyone wanted to learn the truth regarding the Catholic Church, they would have to buy a book (from pagans!) to learn the truth or they would have to ask and believe a Catholic source (would an idolater think twice about lying?) There wasn’t much of a way for outsiders to learn about the Catholic Church from afar.

Today we have the internet. If you were to google something like, “Are Catholics Idolaters?”, here, let me do that for you: lmgtfy.com/?q=are+Catholic+Idolaters Most of the links are from non Catholic sources. They are biased against Catholics. Some are just ignorance, in that they just don’t know better and some are just deceptive. They know better but they have lied to make the Catholic Church look bad.

I can’t muster much animous against those that in ignorance repeat the lie when in their hearts, they think it is true.

The truth of the matter is that if you want to learn about Catholics, a protestant source, might not be your most unbiased resource. We have the internet now and frankly, The Roman Catholic Church isn’t big on secrets. Most anything you want to know is written in as clearly as possible in several languages. Hopefully those that are ignorant of the truth, will be directed to find an honest explanation of what Catholics believe.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Idolatry, for one, is making and worshiping an object as though it were a god. Such takes
serious worship, not just the Protestant’s observation of a Catholic kneeling at a statue of
Mary. Ask a Catholic if he/she worshiped that statue, really, and if the Catholic says “no”,
don’t fight to preserve the idea that Catholics worship saints, angels, and images.

This is where some anti-image Christians are lost.

They think just because we have 2-D and 3-D images of Jesus, angels, saints,
etc, and that we show great respect to the images, IT MUST BE IDOLATRY !!!

Nobody seems to pick on the Americans who salute the flag, or go
and visit the Lincoln Memorial, or even voyage to see the Statue of
Liberty, except maybe some lunatics on Youtube.

Curiously, no one even scolds God or the
Jews for those two cherubim on top of the
Ark of the Covenant.
Cherubim are things “in heaven above” right? And “graven images” were made of them right?
How is that not idolatry, how dare they! ( *Please say you understood the sarcasm *).

Not saying rejecting images is bad, nor do I think ALL non-Catholic Christians are under
the great idolatry delusion that plague the overly-zealous, but to the overly-zealous ones:Let’s stop make pretend that Catholics are Evil Idolators.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Idolatry, for one, is making and worshiping an object as though it were a god. Such takes
serious worship, not just the Protestant’s observation of a Catholic kneeling at a statue of
Mary. Ask a Catholic if he/she worshiped that statue, really, and if the Catholic says “no”,
don’t fight to preserve the idea that Catholics worship saints, angels, and images.

I was just informed that “Idolatry” is not exclusive to inanimate objects,
but can also be to persons etc, that take worship away from God.

By the way, attention towards saints and angels don’t interfere

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Idolatry, for one, is making and worshiping an object as though it were a god. Such takes
serious worship, not just the Protestant’s observation of a Catholic kneeling at a statue of
Mary. Ask a Catholic if he/she worshiped that statue, really, and if the Catholic says “no”,
don’t fight to preserve the idea that Catholics worship saints, angels, and images.

I was just informed that “Idolatry” is not exclusive to inanimate objects,
but can also be to persons etc, that take worship away from God.

By the way, Catholic attention towards saints and angels don’t interfere with that.

 

[Reuben_J]

It has always baffled me why many Protestant Churches do not use the crucifix, since there is no question that He died on the Cross for all of us.

Because it is sooooo Catholic?

 

[SteveVH]

Idolatry’s definition is…?

Worship of anyone or anything that is not God. In other words, worship of an idol.

 

[SteveVH]

Growing up in the United Methodist Church, I never heard it claimed that the crucifixes were idolatrous. Instead the explanation I heard was that Catholics are gloomy people who focus on sin and punishment and the Crucifixion while Protestants are joyful people who focus on mercy and love and the Resurrection. Thus we used an empty cross because Christ is risen, not still suffering.

I wonder if these folks put up a nativity scene during Christmas. What, do they think that Jesus is still a little baby?

 

[SteveVH]

I’ve been baffled by my own congregations for years!!! Their reasoning never made sense to me even though I was unaware of the Catholic Adoration of the Cross.

There is no such thing as Catholic adoration of the cross. That would, indeed, be idolatry. We venerate the cross rather than adore it. Adoration is something reserved for God alone and is an act of worship.