Would someone help by way of clarification with this question>?

[ffg]

If someone wanted to worship something other than God, I don’t think most people would go with a cheap wood or stone figure of ‘reenactment of dead guy from a long time ago hanging’.

Even the golden calf, was Gold.

A little logic can cut through much of the mess that we are cleaning up today made by our ancestors while trying to create reasons to separate from the historical, original place of worship.

The family pictures I have here are a reminder for whom I’m working. I love those humans presented in the pictures, I do not love the pictures.

 

[China123]

I was going to surgically snip this down to just the last paragraph but there was something else about which I wanted to comment and that is where I’ll start.

From my Baptist background the main things I heard about regarding idolatry with Catholics was that they had statues to which they prayed, Mary was elevated above Jesus, etc.

In the first place, when visiting Catholic Churches in my youth, I heard nothing that caused me alarm. The message of the begotten son being sacrificed for our sins was about the same, at least to my young ears. Though I will say that in my more mature state, the thoughts and descriptions given by the Catholic Church are more complete. No one prayed to Mary (out loud at least) and the focus was on the Christ. I immediately assumed there was confusion regarding what Catholics believed.

I’ve never had any problems with the statues and if asked about it now, is it any worse than if a protestant church has pictures of former pastors? Are they worshiping these men? Is it worse than a cornerstone plaque in a church that mentions the pastor and the elders of a church? None of that seems like Idolatry to me.

In those protestants (I’m lumping them altogether though in reality that isn’t fair but for economy’s sake, serves my purpose) defense, in the 1960s and 1970s there was no internet. If anyone wanted to learn the truth regarding the Catholic Church, they would have to buy a book (from pagans!) to learn the truth or they would have to ask and believe a Catholic source (would an idolater think twice about lying?) There wasn’t much of a way for outsiders to learn about the Catholic Church from afar.

Today we have the internet. If you were to google something like, “Are Catholics Idolaters?”, here, let me do that for you: lmgtfy.com/?q=are+Catholic+Idolaters Most of the links are from non Catholic sources. They are biased against Catholics. Some are just ignorance, in that they just don’t know better and some are just deceptive. They know better but they have lied to make the Catholic Church look bad.

I can’t muster much animous against those that in ignorance repeat the lie when in their hearts, they think it is true.

The truth of the matter is that if you want to learn about Catholics, a protestant source, might not be your most unbiased resource. We have the internet now and frankly, The Roman Catholic Church isn’t big on secrets. Most anything you want to know is written in as clearly as possible in several languages. Hopefully those that are ignorant of the truth, will be directed to find an honest explanation of what Catholics believe.

Thank you for your post. It is nice that some people make the effort to find out reliable info. The misinformation street is both ways and there is a lot of bad information regarding protesant religions as well. I have friends of many faiths and if I run aross some new information I usually try and ask them about the statement I have heard. More times than not it is a misrepresentaion of the faith. We have more in common than most think and it is counter productive to not find out when there are just false information out there. I relly love it when people tell me “you do this and you do that” when in fact I DO NOT…lol. I have grown to just smile about it. No one likes being told “you believe this”

I think the internet has really helped in that regard, like you said. Of course, you have to then read through all the lies there LOL!

 

[rinnie]

Many Protestants favor simple aesthetics and functional worship spaces. When it comes to our crosses, we prefer to avoid images of the Savior on the cross because some would feel that it would be idolatry. Also, some may want to emphasize that Christ didn’t stay on the cross.

Depending on what sort of Protestant you’re considering, their concepts of what is idolatry would be stricter than Catholic concepts.

Our family was real different in that teaching.

It was the image of him on that cross that reminds us we put him there. It was our sins.

 

[Publisher]

I have always been baffled by this and here is my chance to get CAF help. I apologise in advance if this is an easy and oft repeated question!

It has always baffled me why many Protestant Churches do not use the crucifix, since there is no question that He died on the Cross for all of us.
I understand the reason has been stated as idolatry.
But, unless I am misunderstanding the definition of idolatry, which I am not sure is the case (but maybe!), I am baffled.
On another thread, I noticed the phrase (“or cross, if Protestant”). (And by the way, aren’t all Crucifixes crosses, but not all crosses are crucifixes?!)

For as long as I can remember, I have never understood why no crucifix; it never made sense. We ‘both’ know that He died on the Cross, sooooo, what up??!!
What is idolatry? I ask also because laymen’s terms might permeate my brain better.
I might even embarrasssingly tell you what I thought it was and why I am finally asking out loud.

Thank you.

Your help would be appreciated

Religious iconagraphy is discouraged in Friend’s Meetings. Our attention is to be turned upon the Present Reality in our midst, not a “representation” that may or may not be accurate. Often times we as individuals tend to focus on an “image” on the wall instead of the “Image” within us.

 

[cheezey]

There is no such thing as Catholic adoration of the cross. That would, indeed, be idolatry. We venerate the cross rather than adore it. Adoration is something reserved for God alone and is an act of worship.

why then do you suppose, during the services of Good Friday was it referred to as such? Nor was I corrected after the fact when I asked if, using that word, and as a candidate, I could have participated.
Just a reminder, the parish in question is a dubious one at best…

 

[Miriam1947]

Thank you. I have felt this way since, well, very long time ago.
I am just mystified how idolatry equalled worship growing up. And I am still not sure what idolatry actually is!!

Again, thank you.

Idolatry is the worship of idols. And you can have any number of idols. Could be a statue or money or a big house or a car or all those things we consider so very important today.

It always leads away from God and toward a thing.

 

[cheezey]

I have heard Protestants prefer to focus on Christ’s Resurrection rather the Crucifixion.and will display an image of Christ Risen.

This is what I do not understand. I have heard this, too, and with that word.
Prefer
I grew up with this and was baffled even with profoundly little understanding of the Catholic Faith.
Shouldn’t His Crucifixion be an equal focus to the His Resurrection? How is ‘preferring’ to openly acknowledge one more or instead of the other idolatry? Both happened. Can’t have one without the other, and All Christians know and believe this. There is no 'preference.'

 

[cheezey]

Growing up in the United Methodist Church, I never heard it claimed that the crucifixes were idolatrous. Instead the explanation I heard was that Catholics are gloomy people who focus on sin and punishment and the Crucifixion while Protestants are joyful people who focus on mercy and love and the Resurrection. Thus we used an empty cross because Christ is risen, not still suffering.

I didn’t either; it was more of a “we are right, and you are wrong” type of argument from both ‘sides.’ :tsktsk:

 

[cheezey]

If you have a chance to visit Europe please please go visit the many magnificent Cathedrals there and if you do you will see in the windows and the walls the story of the Bible told in pictures/images and statues.

Believe me, this is tops on my bucket list…

We do not Worship them and certainly we are NOT idolatrers. Because we HAVE NO idols. And by the way so many today make idols of money, power, sucess, social status etc etc.

We worship only GOD in His 3 Holy Persons…

Peace

Thank you. And don’t worry, I have always understood this even before knowing this…

 

[cheezey]

…i was raised protestant but have always felt drawn to the suffering Christ on the crucifix…

That makes two of us.
Seriously, there are many non Catholic Christians who feel the same way.

 

[cheezey]

…Using a crucifix as an aid to prayer is the furthest thing from idolatry that you can get, IMHO.

As a non Catholic Christian, this was my belief, always.
As an as-yet Catholic, this is my belief, always.

 

[cheezey]

Why would you expect anything different. Most of these do not have traditions older than 100 years.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

Understood, but it isn’t always about tradition, in that, I seemed to know the difference long before I knew about tradition. Or Tradition. The latter having been made known to me only recently.

 

[cheezey]

…It’s my opinion that the non catholic churches I’ve attended through the years, the attitude is more of a celebration than anything else. Jesus is risen, that’s the good news, that’s the story and most of what you heard.

More than any other church I’ve attended, the Catholic church focuses on the misery and the sacrifice of the crucifixion. I love mass and the Catholic church but honestly, lent was an incredibly miserable time the first time I lived through it. The focus on the misery is out front, the music is different, the stations of the cross, sacrifice, all of it was a huge culture shock. When I was a child, Easter meant baskets of candy, the bunny, new dress clothes for the year, etc. Maybe it’s different when you are raised that way but I would think that it must be miserable for a Catholic child having the season full of misery.

Now as an adult, I see that **focusing on the brutality of what Jesus endured is important. **Hopefully my next lent won’t be as hard since I better know what to expect. Regardless, for so many more reasons, Easter is fantastic in the Catholic church. For all the usual reasons of the risen savior and now to end the near endless reflection of misery of the savior.

I’m still in the same church with the larger than life crucifix hanging above the alter. You can see how the hands and feet were somewhat deformed by the nails being driven into them. And those are nails? Calling them nails seems so insufficient. They have to be so large to hold a body to wood, spikes or stakes seem a better term. Anyway, I see that depiction of the pain that must have been suffered, willingly but very painfully. It was done for me that deserves it not. There is no way I consider that an idol. **It is a reminder of the life that was painfully forced from a man for my benefit in the cruelest manner. It’s a reminder of the sacrifice and a covenant that was for my benefit. **

On Christmas, I can celebrate the birth and the promise to return again. On every other day, I can celebrate his sacrifice and ask for God’s help to make me more holy. During the relatively short period of lent, I must focus on his suffering which is the least I can do for him that did so much for me.

I’m not sure I’ll ever be one to wear a crucifix. I understand it and see the need for the reminder but it’s a bit brutal for me to wear. ** I really have no problem with a cross with the body or without. Both serve as a reminder.** However, I’m grateful for the Catholic Church that has given me that visual image to drive home the point of the human part of the sacrifice.

This past season was my first, though, granted, as an observer, but one who grew up wanting to observe it in its fullness. Again, I was baffled that we did not make more mention of Good Friday, and wondered why. Non Catholic Christians cannot deny the events of Good Friday any more than the resurrection can be denied.
I have always observed The Resurrection, too, though, admittedly, this past season, I observed with greater understanding and joy. So I bought a white chocolate bunny, just like my mother used to do for me.

 

[cheezey]

**Idolatry, for one, is making and worshiping an object as though it were a god.**Such takes
serious worship, not just the Protestant’s observation of a Catholic kneeling at a statue of
Mary. Ask a Catholic if he/she worshiped that statue, really, and if the Catholic says “no”,
don’t fight to preserve the idea that Catholics worship saints, angels, and images.

This is where some anti-image Christians are lost.

They think just because we have 2-D and 3-D images of Jesus, angels, saints,
etc, and that we show great respect to the images, IT MUST BE IDOLATRY !!!

Nobody seems to pick on the Americans who salute the flag, or go
and visit the Lincoln Memorial, or even voyage to see the Statue of
Liberty, except maybe some lunatics on Youtube.

Curiously, no one even scolds God or the
Jews for those two cherubim on top of the
Ark of the Covenant.
Cherubim are things “in heaven above” right? And “graven images” were made of them right?
How is that not idolatry, how dare they! **( *Please say you understood the sarcasm ***).

Not saying rejecting images is bad, nor do I think ALL non-Catholic Christians are under
the great idolatry delusion that plague the overly-zealous, but to the overly-zealous ones:Let’s stop make pretend that Catholics are Evil Idolators.

Hate to say it, but I thought this was the ONLY non secular definition of idolatry.
My embarrassing admission.

Thank you for saying some.

I do!!

 

[cheezey]

I was just informed that “Idolatry” is not exclusive to inanimate objects,
but can also be to persons etc, that take worship away from God.

By the way, attention towards saints and angels don’t interfere

Hence, American Idol.
Sorry, had to say it.

 

[cheezey]

Idolatry is the worship of idols. And you can have any number of idols. Could be a statue or money or a big house or a car or all those things we consider so very important today.

It always leads away from God and toward a thing.

thank you. And the definition of an idol has been made more clear to me, too.
Thank you!!

 

[gnosisofthomas]

I have always been baffled by this and here is my chance to get CAF help. I apologise in advance if this is an easy and oft repeated question!

It has always baffled me why many Protestant Churches do not use the crucifix, since there is no question that He died on the Cross for all of us.
I understand the reason has been stated as idolatry.
But, unless I am misunderstanding the definition of idolatry, which I am not sure is the case (but maybe!), I am baffled.
On another thread, I noticed the phrase (“or cross, if Protestant”). (And by the way, aren’t all Crucifixes crosses, but not all crosses are crucifixes?!)

For as long as I can remember, I have never understood why no crucifix; it never made sense. We ‘both’ know that He died on the Cross, sooooo, what up??!!
What is idolatry? I ask also because laymen’s terms might permeate my brain better.
I might even embarrasssingly tell you what I thought it was and why I am finally asking out loud.

I grew up in the Church of the Nazarene before converting to Catholicism in high school. The reason I was given had nothing to do with idolatry… It was simply that Jesus rose from the dead and was no longer on the cross, but even an empty cross reminds you that He died for you.

 

[BeProfOSX]

It may be interesting to note that Luther favored the crucifix while Calvin rejected both the crucifix and the cross.

The main reason we don’t use them, to put it bluntly, is so people won’t think we’re catholic.

Essentially, the unadorned cross is a tacit proclamation of the idea that Christ’s sacrifice on the cross was once and for all and, concurrently, a tacit repudiation of the idea of the Christ’s sacrifice being re-presented at the Mass.

In short, it’s another one of those “gang signs” like usage of the word “ordinance” instead of “sacrament” or rejection of the title “The Rev.” in favor of “Pastor.”

 

[cheezey]

It may be interesting to note that Luther favored the crucifix while Calvin rejected both the crucifix and the cross.

**The main reason we don’t use them, to put it bluntly, is so people won’t think we’re catholic. **

Essentially, the unadorned cross is a tacit proclamation of the idea that Christ’s sacrifice on the cross was once and for all and, concurrently, a tacit repudiation of the idea of the Christ’s sacrifice being re-presented at the Mass.

In short, it’s another one of those “gang signs” like usage of the word “ordinance” instead of “sacrament” or rejection of the title “The Rev.” in favor of "Pastor."

**Well, that’s the way it was in my family. It took a death to end that silliness.
**

Christ suffered and died on the Cross; this is universal among Christians. Hence, the Crucifix.
Christ rose from the dead; this is universal among Christians. Hence, the empty Cross.

For some Christians, there is, as you said, that tacit repudiation of the idea of the Christ’s sacrifice being re-presented at the Mass. I truly did not know this, so thank you for this information.

My thought was simpler, however.
As per what Christ did for us, no matter what is re-presented anywhere or not, He Suffered for us, He died for us, He rose for us. Thus, I’d wear either to acknowledge what He did for us.

 

[getysbg]

**Well, that’s the way it was in my family. It took a death to end that silliness.
**

Christ suffered and died on the Cross; this is universal among Christians. Hence, the Crucifix.
Christ rose from the dead; this is universal among Christians. Hence, the empty Cross.

For some Christians, there is, as you said, that tacit repudiation of the idea of the Christ’s sacrifice being re-presented at the Mass. I truly did not know this, so thank you for this information.

My thought was simpler, however.
As per what Christ did for us, no matter what is re-presented anywhere or not, He Suffered for us, He died for us, He rose for us. Thus, I’d wear either to acknowledge what He did for us.

Ah, just to my to put my two cents in play, if you want to recognize rising from the dead, display an empty tomb. I can’t think of a more sorrowful time than when Jesus died and was taken down from the cross. Many must have thought that it was all over.