Would someone help by way of clarification with this question>?

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There are other manifestations of the differences between us and our Protestant brethren. For example, I could never understand why a weather vane was perched atop a beautiful steeple, in place of a cross. The cross is a clear manifestation of Christian faith, but the weather vane, seen on some Protestant churches …well I’m not sure what it represents.

Also at the end of a Protestant prayer, just Christ, the second person, is acknowledged with the words…“in Jesus Name” but the trinity is not, as in the Catholic words…“In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” So what did the trinity- believing Protestant reformers have against the saying of those words, and the making of the sign of the cross?

One might conclude that the unwritten rule for some of those reformers was, if the Catholics do it this way, we’re gonna do it a different way…a sort of contrarianism as it were.

But with respect to (in-church) crucifixes, in defense of Protestants I will say that the art behind some can be a real distraction. In one church I attend occasionally, the statue on the cross appears to be dressed in a semi-pleated mini skirt, rather than a simple cloth covering. Couldn’t the artists’ eccentricity be eliminated by providing a standard for all “in church” crucifixes?
Protestants tend to pray in the name of Jesus based on Christ words “no one comes to the Father but through me” and the statement that there is " but one mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus". We also use "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit’ frequently but at very specified times such as marriages, baptism, etc.
 
IMHO, it has nothing to do with idolatry. The empty cross emphasizes the Resurrection!
There is no resurrection without the crucifixion. We were not saved by the cross, we were saved by the One hanging on the cross. Christ’s sacrifice for us sinners must always be forefront in the minds of Christians who can then rejoice in the resurrection. The question is not whether or not we should emphasize the crucifixion or the resurrection. We must emphasize both because they are inextricably joined. The Holy Triduum is celebrated as one Mass, beginning on Holy Thursday (The Last Supper), extending through Good Friday (the Crucifixion) and into the vigil of Easter (the Resurrection). It cannot be separated into parts, but rather is one saving act.
 
There is no resurrection without the crucifixion. We were not saved by the cross, we were saved by the one hanging on the cross. Christ’s sacrifice for us sinners must always be forefront in the minds of Christians who can then rejoice in the resurrection. The question is not whether or not we should emphasize the crucifixion or the resurrection. We must emphasize both because they are inextricably joined. The Holy Triduum (Holy Thursday, Good Friday, and Easter Vigil) is celebrated as one Mass, beginning on Holy Thursday (The Last Supper), extending through Good Friday (the Crucifixion) and into the vigil of Easter (the Resurrection) because its parts cannot be separated.
It strikes me in so many of these threads the Catholic position resolves to “both, and”.
 
Protestants tend to pray in the name of Jesus based on Christ words “no one comes to the Father but through me” and the statement that there is " but one mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus". We also use "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit’ frequently but at very specified times such as marriages, baptism, etc.
The name of God is “Father, Son and Holy Spirit”. When we begin our prayers in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit we place ourselves in the presence of God and call on his name. We may pray to the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit because they are each God, whole and entire. When we pray to one, we pray to each of the divine Persons. There are times when we need to pray specifically to God as our Father. There are times when we specifically call on the Holy Spirit, and there are times when we pray specifically to Jesus, our Brother and Savior.

It is absolutely proper to pray in the name of Jesus, but we must understand that when we pray in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, we are praying in the name of Jesus.
 
The Crucifix helps us understand the VALUE of suffering.

The cross is a reminder of who loves you, no matter what.

Both are good if they are used for good.

I want to analyze why there is value to suffering…

First let’s set a foundation for evaluation - unconditional love.

God can and does whatever He wants. However, in order to be consistent with unconditional love, He does limit Himself in what he does for and to his creation once they are created.

Why? Because by definition, unconditional love doesn’t force a reflection of love.

Therefore, for God to fix an unGodly mess (sin), He has to work within the limits of unconditional love.

So He can’t just snap his fingers and make things well. By default that would show what is created perfectly to be imperfect. Which would mean God was not perfect in creating.

Impossible.

So how does God who has created help his creation without forcing them to reflect His love (hold true to unconditional love)?

He uses the effect of suffering for the salvation of His creation.

If God CHOSE to use extreme suffering (rather than joy, bliss, excitement, etc.) that should help us to start to understand suffering’s importance. Or at least recognize it is important.

Thus the Crucifix helps us to realize suffering is of value. We must understand this gift better, as it is human temptation to avoid it at all costs.

It’s not valuable just because it exists, it’s value is in what it does for others (ex: used as a prayer).
 
There are other manifestations of the differences between us and our Protestant brethren. For example, I could never understand why a weather vane was perched atop a beautiful steeple, in place of a cross. The cross is a clear manifestation of Christian faith, but the weather vane, seen on some Protestant churches …well I’m not sure what it represents.
I think it signifies an attitude of “let’s see what’s popular now and we’ll change our theology to match.” 😃
 
I am a Protestant (I WILL one day convert to and embrace the Catholic faith).

I wear a Crucifix as a sign of my Christian faith and love for the Lord Jesus.

What I believe is this:

What Protestants say about Catholics is Protestant fallacies.

The Crucifix is a very powerful visual reminder of the sacrifice that Jesus made of his body, blood and life upon the cross.

The Crucifix IS NOT idolatrous and IS NOT worshipped not even on Good Friday when the faithful kiss the feet of the image of our crucified Lord and remembering all that he went through on the cross.

Many Protestants today forget something concerning religious images.

In the days when many people were illiterate or even understood Latin and went to church, religious images of the life of Jesus, Mary and the Saints along with other scenes from the Bible were the only way they could understand.

It is only when the Reformation started that people got themselves “brainwashed” into believing that such images are idolatrous and sadly that belief still exists today.

I have nothing against religious images.
The Crucifix is a Catholic symbol of God’s love for humanity. On Good Friday we do more than worshiping Jesus on the Cross, we adore, venerate and show how much we truly love him as our Savor and Redeemer.
 
The name of God is “Father, Son and Holy Spirit”. When we begin our prayers in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit we place ourselves in the presence of God and call on his name. We may pray to the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit because they are each God, whole and entire. When we pray to one, we pray to each of the divine Persons. There are times when we need to pray specifically to God as our Father. There are times when we specifically call on the Holy Spirit, and there are times when we pray specifically to Jesus, our Brother and Savior.

It is absolutely proper to pray in the name of Jesus, but we must understand that when we pray in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, we are praying in the name of Jesus.
I must disagree with your statement. If that were the case why do I hear so many Catholics on EWTN and the Catholic Channel on Sirius Radio and even Cardinal Dolan himself pray in the name of Jesus and then add in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and then throw in through the intersession of Mary or another saint. Protestants also pray at times in the name of the Most Holy Trinity but it is our tradition to generally pray in the name of Jesus. There is only one mediator and we pray to God through Christ who alone makes intersession on our behalf.
 
For example, I could never understand why a weather vane was perched atop a beautiful steeple, in place of a cross.
In the 9th century, one of the Popes decreed that the rooster weather vane be installed on all churches - the rooster being the emblem of St. Peter.

Luke 22:34 “I say to you, Peter, the rooster will not crow today until you have denied three times that you know Me.”

Some people think the rooster crow is a reminder to not deny Christ, and even today, many Catholic and Lutheran cathedrals in Europe have one.
 
There are other manifestations of the differences between us and our Protestant brethren. For example, I could never understand why a weather vane was perched atop a beautiful steeple, in place of a cross. The cross is a clear manifestation of Christian faith, but the weather vane, seen on some Protestant churches …well I’m not sure what it represents.

Also at the end of a Protestant prayer, just Christ, the second person, is acknowledged with the words…“in Jesus Name” but the trinity is not, as in the Catholic words…“In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” So what did the trinity- believing Protestant reformers have against the saying of those words, and the making of the sign of the cross?

One might conclude that the unwritten rule for some of those reformers was, if the Catholics do it this way, we’re gonna do it a different way…a sort of contrarianism as it were.

But with respect to (in-church) crucifixes, in defense of Protestants I will say that the art behind some can be a real distraction. In one church I attend occasionally, the statue on the cross appears to be dressed in a semi-pleated mini skirt, rather than a simple cloth covering. Couldn’t the artists’ eccentricity be eliminated by providing a standard for all “in church” crucifixes?
I’m goint to take a guess on the wheather vane symbol of Protestant churches.

Jesus said something like just as the wind comes and goes and you don’t understand it, so to the Holy Spirit. Those words are not exact but he said something like it. So I would assume our brothers in Christ see the wheather vane as a symbol of the working of the Holy Spirit.

Just a thought.
 
I must disagree with your statement. If that were the case why do I hear so many Catholics on EWTN and the Catholic Channel on Sirius Radio and even Cardinal Dolan himself pray in the name of Jesus and then add in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and then throw in through the intersession of Mary or another saint. Protestants also pray at times in the name of the Most Holy Trinity but it is our tradition to generally pray in the name of Jesus. There is only one mediator and we pray to God through Christ who alone makes intersession on our behalf.
Jesus is the only one who died for our sins, and He is the only one who opened up the gates of Heaven to the human race by rising from the dead in the same human body into which He became incarnate in Mary’s womb. 🙂

But we can all intercede for each other in prayer, and indeed, we are commanded to do so. The Saints continue to do so in Heaven, and there is no sin in asking them to pray with us for our intentions.
 
Hi!
OP here.
Well, thank you for these responses. :thankyou:

I asked the question because, as stated by others, there cannot be a resurrection without a crucifixion, thus, I have never understood why many people, at least in my many years on my part of the planet, have believed
crucifix = Catholic and empty cross = Protestant.
And often observed as such with contentiousness, at that.
This has been a wonder all my “we-should-have-a-crucifix-in-the-church,too” Protestant upbringing life. He died for us, too, so…
And all my Protestant life, long before any interest in joining the Catholic faith, I believed with all my heart that ‘both’ can and should use ‘both.’
Not that we need reminders, per se, but to visually see what Our Most Merciful Christ did for us is good for us** both**; His Sacrifying death and His Glorious Resurrection.
Because we ‘both’ believe in ‘both’.

He died for us ‘both’, he was resurrected for us ‘both.’
Why the division on this incredibly unifying belief?

Also, as mentioned before, I concede that I misunderstood the definition of idolatry. Embarrassing to say and I admit it, but even with the correct definition, it doesn’t explain the mindset with which I grew up and continue to experience. And I have been here a while. 😃
Ok, so Protestants would rather focus on the Resurrection (which isn’t entirely true, by the way, but ok, I respect that) and Catholics, the crucifixion (which isn’t entirely true, but, ok, I respect that, too).

Why not both for both?
 
Jesus is the only one who died for our sins, and He is the only one who opened up the gates of Heaven to the human race by rising from the dead in the same human body into which He became incarnate in Mary’s womb. 🙂

But we can all intercede for each other in prayer, and indeed, we are commanded to do so. The Saints continue to do so in Heaven, and there is no sin in asking them to pray with us for our intentions.
I totally agree we can and should intercede for each other as commanded but all those incessions must go though Jesus. There is NO PLACE in sacred scripture that even hints that it is acceptable to pray to anyone other than Jesus and I must ask WHY WOULD YOU WANT OR NEED TO??? It is through the sacrifice and merits of Christ that we can approach the throne of God directly. there is no need for any other.
 
I totally agree we can and should intercede for each other as commanded but all those incessions must go though Jesus. There is NO PLACE in sacred scripture that even hints that it is acceptable to pray to anyone other than Jesus and I must ask WHY WOULD YOU WANT OR NEED TO??? It is through the sacrifice and merits of Christ that we can approach the throne of God directly. there is no need for any other.
If I ask you to pray for me, will not your prayers for me go through Jesus? The same is true for the saints in heaven. When they pray for us their prayers go through Jesus. Praying to saints is only a way of communication, it is not a form of worship. We are simply asking them to pray to God for us.

The next time someone asks for your prayers, I will be interested to know whether or not you will respond “Pray to Jesus yourself, what good are my prayers?”.
 
I have always been baffled by this and here is my chance to get CAF help. I apologise in advance if this is an easy and oft repeated question!

It has always baffled me why many Protestant Churches do not use the crucifix, since there is no question that He died on the Cross for all of us.
I understand the reason has been stated as idolatry.
But, unless I am misunderstanding the definition of idolatry, which I am not sure is the case (but maybe!), I am baffled.
On another thread, I noticed the phrase (“or cross, if Protestant”). (And by the way, aren’t all Crucifixes crosses, but not all crosses are crucifixes?!)

For as long as I can remember, I have never understood why no crucifix; it never made sense. We ‘both’ know that He died on the Cross, sooooo, what up??!!
What is idolatry? I ask also because laymen’s terms might permeate my brain better. 😃
I might even embarrasssingly tell you what I thought it was and why I am finally asking out loud.

Thank you.

Your help would be appreciated
Hi!
OP here.
Well, thank you for these responses. :thankyou:

I asked the question because, as stated by others, there cannot be a resurrection without a crucifixion, thus, I have never understood why many people, at least in my many years on my part of the planet, have believed
crucifix = Catholic and empty cross = Protestant.
And often observed as such with contentiousness, at that.
This has been a wonder all my “we-should-have-a-crucifix-in-the-church,too” Protestant upbringing life. He died for us, too, so…
And all my Protestant life, long before any interest in joining the Catholic faith, I believed with all my heart that ‘both’ can and should use ‘both.’
Not that we need reminders, per se, but to visually see what Our Most Merciful Christ did for us is good for us** both**; His Sacrifying death and His Glorious Resurrection.
Because we ‘both’ believe in ‘both’.

He died for us ‘both’, he was resurrected for us ‘both.’
Why the division on this incredibly unifying belief?

Also, as mentioned before, I concede that I misunderstood the definition of idolatry. Embarrassing to say and I admit it, but even with the correct definition, it doesn’t explain the mindset with which I grew up and continue to experience. And I have been here a while. 😃
Ok, so Protestants would rather focus on the Resurrection (which isn’t entirely true, by the way, but ok, I respect that) and Catholics, the crucifixion (which isn’t entirely true, but, ok, I respect that, too).

Why not both for both?
 
I totally agree we can and should intercede for each other as commanded but all those incessions must go though Jesus. There is NO PLACE in sacred scripture that even hints that it is acceptable to pray to anyone other than Jesus and I must ask WHY WOULD YOU WANT OR NEED TO??? It is through the sacrifice and merits of Christ that we can approach the throne of God directly. there is no need for any other.
In Revelation 5:8, we see that the 4 living creatures (the Evangelists) and the 24 Elders (the Apostles and the Patriarchs) bringing bowls full of the prayers of God’s people on earth before the Throne of the Lamb.

This shows us that we can certainly offer our prayers to those we know are in Heaven, with confidence that they will offer our prayers up to Jesus in worship. 🙂
 
I totally agree we can and should intercede for each other as commanded but all those incessions must go though Jesus. There is NO PLACE in sacred scripture that even hints that it is acceptable to pray to anyone other than Jesus and I must ask

Actually…there is:

Job 42:

7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job’s prayer.

and Paul himself asking for prayers:

2 Thessalonians 3

As for other matters, brothers and sisters, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you. 2 And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil people, for not everyone has faith.
WHY WOULD YOU WANT OR NEED TO???
 
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