Would someone help by way of clarification with this question>?

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jmcrae said:
In Revelation 5:8, we see that the 4 living creatures (the Evangelists) and the 24 Elders (the Apostles and the Patriarchs) bringing bowls full of the prayers of God’s people on earth before the Throne of the Lamb.

This shows us that we can certainly offer our prayers to those we know are in Heaven, with confidence that they will offer our prayers up to Jesus in worship. 🙂
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Your reasoning here is puzzling since I believe that the Roman Catholic Church sees Revelation as more metaphor and allegory that fact or prophesy; this reasoning seems much more Evangelical and Fundamentalist. But to answer you why would you need any other to bring prayers before God than the Son of God. Why direct prayers and petitions to a created human who you believe to be in heaven when you have access to the very Savior of the world who you know with perfect confidence sits at the right hand of God and is in fact God Himself…
 
believerdoc said:
pablope;11220332:
ABSOLUTELY! That others pray for us is perfectly acceptable, desirable, and commanded. There is promised great power in the prayers of the faithful when there are prayers offered in agreement. The only difference is that a Protestant would never pray to a saint or the Blessed Virgin; we have been specifically told that there is one Mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus. As far as the quote from Job we are no longer under the old covenant. We have a perfect High Priest and Mediator and that is Jesus Christ; there is no need for any other. So yes we pray for others, our world, the church, etc. The only difference we have is who we pray to and through; for us we trust the Son of God, the Second person of the Most Holy Trinity, our friend, brother, high priest and Savior.
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Believerdoc-

If you lost your job or you got ill, would it be okay if I prayed for you? Would you ask a friend to pray for you? You seem to be saying yes.

What if I prayed for your recovery or new job without your knowledge? Would I be interceding for you? Would I be a mediator?

And if you were angry with God? Could I beg God to have mercy on you and open your eyes so that you could experience His love? Would I be mediating then?
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believerdoc said:
ABSOLUTELY! That others pray for us is perfectly acceptable, desirable, and commanded. There is promised great power in the prayers of the faithful when there are prayers offered in agreement. The only difference is that a Protestant would never pray to a saint or the Blessed Virgin; we have been specifically told that there is one Mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus. As far as the quote from Job we are no longer under the old covenant. We have a perfect High Priest and Mediator and that is Jesus Christ; there is no need for any other. So yes we pray for others, our world, the church, etc. The only difference we have is who we pray to and through; for us we trust the Son of God, the Second person of the Most Holy Trinity, our friend, brother, high priest and Savior.
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All who intercede for others with prayers are going through the one Mediator; Christ. The only difference is whether or not the one praying for you happens to be in heaven or on earth. All prayers go to and through Jesus Christ.
 
SteveVH said:
If I ask you to pray for me, will not your prayers for me go through Jesus? The same is true for the saints in heaven. When they pray for us their prayers go through Jesus. Praying to saints is only a way of communication, it is not a form of worship. We are simply asking them to pray to God for us.

The next time someone asks for your prayers, I will be interested to know whether or not you will respond “Pray to Jesus yourself, what good are my prayers?”.
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You misunderstand my statements. I do not refer to people praying on behalf of other. We are commanded to do this and there is great power in the prayers of the faithful. What Protestants cannot accept is why there is a need to ask a saint (who may or may not be in heaven and who may or may not have ever existed on earth such as St. Christopher) to pray to Christ when we have direct access to Him ourselves. “No one comes to the Father but by Me”. We have been given the greatest gift in the world which is a Savor that loves us, cares for us, and intercedes for us. Jesus is all we ever need.
 
Randy_Carson said:
believerdoc;11220457:
Believerdoc-

If you lost your job or you got ill, would it be okay if I prayed for you? Would you ask a friend to pray for you? You seem to be saying yes.

What if I prayed for your recovery or new job without your knowledge? Would I be interceding for you? Would I be a mediator?

And if you were angry with God? Could I beg God to have mercy on you and open your eyes so that you could experience His love? Would I be mediating then?
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ABSOLUTELY!! That is not the concern. I would ask you to pray for me, be grateful you prayed for me, and know that there is great power when people pray in agreement. That is not the question. Our concern as Protestants is that be believe that as a Christian you have been given the gift to go directly yo the Throne of God’s grace and mercy directly thought the intersession of Christ Jesus. We do not see saints, as great and faithful as their lives were here on earth, as anyone to pray to. They are examples of Christian living and obedience nothing more or less. Examples for us to follow and learn from but not possessing in any supernatural ability to either hear prayers or in turn “pass the on” to God. Pray with perfect confidence; Pray to Jesus!
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believerdoc said:
You misunderstand my statements. I do not refer to people praying on behalf of other.
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But what you miss is the fact that this is all we are doing when asking the saints to intercede for us; it is nothing more than people praying on behalf of others. These people just happen to be in heaven. If the intercessory prayers of people on earth are efficacious, why would the prayers of those in heaven be any less?
believerdoc said:
We are commanded to do this and there is great power in the prayers of the faithful. What Protestants cannot accept is why there is a need to ask a saint (who may or may not be in heaven and who may or may not have ever existed on earth such as St. Christopher) to pray to Christ when we have direct access to Him ourselves.
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So on one hand you say that there is great power in the prayers of the faithful. Are not the true faithful in heaven? What you are saying is that there is great power in the prayers of the faithful but that we do not need the prayers of the faithful in heaven.

If the prayers of the faithful in heaven are useless, then so are the prayers of the faithful on earth.
 
believerdoc said:
Randy Carson;11220496:
ABSOLUTELY!! That is not the concern. I would ask you to pray for me, be grateful you prayed for me, and know that there is great power when people pray in agreement. That is not the question. Our concern as Protestants is that be believe that as a Christian you have been given the gift to go directly yo the Throne of God’s grace and mercy directly thought the intersession of Christ Jesus. We do not see saints, as great and faithful as their lives were here on earth, as anyone to pray to. They are examples of Christian living and obedience nothing more or less. Examples for us to follow and learn from but not possessing in any supernatural ability to either hear prayers or in turn “pass the on” to God. Pray with perfect confidence; Pray to Jesus!
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Ah. Okay, follow the logic:
  1. The prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
  2. The saints in heaven are more righteous than the saints who are still on earth.
  3. Therefore, the prayers of the saints in heaven availeth more than those of the saints on earth.
Thoughts?
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believerdoc said:
Pray with perfect confidence; Pray to Jesus!
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Amen! Catholics do that all the time.

Now, although Paul told us to pray without ceasing, I have a confession to make (it’s a Catholic thing).

Sometimes I fall asleep while I’m praying. Sometimes, Georgia Tech is playing. I don’t always pray without ceasing.

However, the saints do not grow weary and except for Notre Dame, I’m not sure they are watching football games. They can intercede on my behalf even when I do not or cannot.

So, ask your Christian brothers and sister who have “fallen asleep in the Lord” to pray for you. They will do so with greater effort and effect than I ever could.
 
believerdoc said:
Okay…what do you mean by “offered in agreement”?
The only difference is that a Protestant would never pray to a saint or the Blessed Virgin;
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Can you point out the difference between those saints in heaven and those on earth?
As far as the quote from Job we are no longer under the old covenant. We have a perfect High Priest and Mediator and that is Jesus Christ; there is no need for any other.
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Actually, the words of God are eternal…even in the OT…the truths of God are never changing…and I think you agree with this. The quote from Job reveals a theological truth about God…and this truth is carried in the OT…but this is off thread topic…so for another thread.
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pablope said:
Yes God’s words are eternal, unchanging, and perfect in all ways. However after the incarnation and Christ’s great sacrifice and resurrection we are no longer under the Old Covenant. For example we no longer follow Jewish dietary laws, we no longer observe the Jewish Sabbath and we no longer offer animal sacrifices. So with Christ all things have been made new; He is the perfect completion of the Old Covenant, and we have no need of anything or anyone other than Jesus to open Paradise and allow us a way to return home to God our Father. .
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believerdoc said:
pablope;11221182:
Yes God’s words are eternal, unchanging, and perfect in all ways. However after the incarnation and Christ’s great sacrifice and resurrection we are no longer under the Old Covenant. For example we no longer follow Jewish dietary laws, we no longer observe the Jewish Sabbath and we no longer offer animal sacrifices. So with Christ all things have been made new; He is the perfect completion of the Old Covenant, and we have no need of anything or anyone other than Jesus to open Paradise and allow us a way to return home to God our Father. .
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Meanwhile, OP is left hanging…
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