Would tattoos offend a traditionalist Catholic?

[CrackerJackie]

Necro gives good advice regarding your choice in artist and cleanliness of shop. I have several, each one meaning something to me, and only me. I also have a piercing. I do these things for me. I do not show them unless I want to, and if someone asks the meaning of any of them, I tell them they are free to discern their own meaning, especially if they are not tattooed and say it with a sneer.

On a side note, I find it curious that throughout this forum, Catholics discuss that Jesus’ coming fulfilled prophesy and we as Christians aren’t bound by the Old Testament. But, in this thread, Leviticus (19:28 " Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.") is referenced. To quote one of my favorite Saturday Night Live characters, “How convenient.” (Yes, I know I’ll be taken to task for that remark, but it doesn’t wash with me…can’t have it both ways…either men should grow their beards, we should cover our heads, boys should be circumcised, we should still give burnt offering to God, or not.)

Talk this over with your girlfriend. If she would be offended, then you have to decide which is more important to you, the woman or the ink.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[RUINATION_IPA]

I have 2 young daughters who will turn out to be two beautiful traditional Catholic maidens one day and if either of them ever brought home a guy who purported to be a “catholic” with a desire for a tatoo I would immediately tell him to leave and not come back until he GREW UP! I have no idea how old you are but, seriously, it sounds as if you have some maturing to do there buddy!

 

[Matthias123]

The idea that tattoos are sinful comes from Protestantism. In Catholic theology it would only become sinful if it was excessive, or if it jeopardized your health. Of course anything obscene would be desecrating yourself, as a temple of the Holy Ghost.

I have been thinking for some time of getting a Tattoo of a Chi Ro on my deltoid, with an Alpha and Omega on each side.

If it isn’t sinful, I don’t see why a Catholic should have a problem with it – traditional or not.

Pax

 

[nmoerbeek]

I have 2 young daughters who will turn out to be two beautiful traditional Catholic maidens one day and if either of them ever brought home a guy who purported to be a “catholic” with a desire for a tatoo I would immediately tell him to leave and not come back until he GREW UP! I have no idea how old you are but, seriously, it sounds as if you have some maturing to do there buddy!

Until you started throwing insults this was a pretty adult conversation.

 

[bbarrick8383]

I have 2 young daughters who will turn out to be two beautiful traditional Catholic maidens one day and if either of them ever brought home a guy who purported to be a “catholic” with a desire for a tatoo I would immediately tell him to leave and not come back until he GREW UP! I have no idea how old you are but, seriously, it sounds as if you have some maturing to do there buddy!

You be sure and point that spec out in his eye there buddy! Just be careful, your attitude may land you the son in law of your nightmares.

 

[RUINATION_IPA]

The following file is “penanceware” so be sure to say a Hail Mary for the intentions of Fr. Chad Rippberger FSSP and then listen to the 13 minute talk in which tattoos are discussed at the 11 minute mark. Piercings, makeup and decorum are addressed earlier on.

sensustraditionis.org/webaudio/Sermons/Modesty/Sermon4.mp3

You be sure and point that spec out in his eye there buddy! Just be careful, your attitude may land you the son in law of your nightmares.

Until you started throwing insults this was a pretty adult conversation.

I didn’t insult - nor did I judge. I gave him reason to reconsider tattooing: meeting the parents.

 

[nmoerbeek]

The following file is “penanceware” so be sure to say a Hail Mary for the intentions of Fr. Chad Rippberger FSSP and then listen to the 13 minute talk in which tattoos are discussed at the 11 minute mark. Piercings, makeup and decorum are addressed earlier on.

sensustraditionis.org/webaudio/Sermons/Modesty/Sermon4.mp3

I didn’t insult - nor did I judge. I gave him reason to reconsider tattooing: meeting the parents.

Instructing a fellow adult to grow up? Saying a man with Tattoos or who desires Tattoos is not worthy of your daughter?

Perhaps the tone of voice you implied was jovial and I was mistaken.

However I did listen to your sermon, thank you for the source of your argument.

His main arguements are as follows

1. It is a sin against justice because it is mutilation

I assert that using the same logic

Using a hair shirt, cilice or discipline would be mutilation and therefore sinful. Such an assertion is incorrect. Is not inflicting pain upon oneself unnatural. Do not these pious devices leave scares?

1. It is a sin against modesty because it alters the human condition

I would like to draw your attention to the following Saint Radegund pg 394 She branded herself with Christs monogram during her Lenten exercises.

The evidence you presented would have condemned this pious individual. You could view it a religious tattoo as a reminder of your own baptismal promises.

 

[ncstevem]

A person who wants to get or gets a tatoo indicates one, several or all of the following.

1. They’re immature and do it because others do it, it’s a fad, etc.
2. They’re insecure. Just like those who begin smoking because those around them are doing it.
3. They’re unitelligent.
4. They’re low rent.

 

[nmoerbeek]

One more thought

1 Corinthians 6 19 Have ye not known that your body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit in you, which ye have from God? and ye are not your own, 20 for ye were bought with a price; glorify, then, God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.

I would assert that a person who tattoo themselves, branded themselves, scared themselves in the spirit of glorifying God enduring the pain, possibly even the condemnation of others is doing a noble deed. However if a person Tattoos a cross that is visible on himself if he does not act Christian out in public his marking accuses him as a liar.

Did you not know that people devoted to Mary should wear Iron Chains (True Devotion to Mary) for they have no will of their own anymore?

Do not prisoners have Tats imposed by the State, they are not free men no? Let us be slaves to Jesus and Mary and mark ourselves in their service. Let us put on the vestments of grace of the scapular and sacred heart badge. Let us mark our bodies that we are part of their flock and not of the devil. Let us show that we will endure suffering and ridicule for our God and one true King. Let us train ourselves with mortification of the flesh and become masters of our own flesh.

 

[deb1]

I have 2 young daughters who will turn out to be two beautiful traditional Catholic maidens one day and if either of them ever brought home a guy who purported to be a “catholic” with a desire for a tatoo I would immediately tell him to leave and not come back until he GREW UP! I have no idea how old you are but, seriously, it sounds as if you have some maturing to do there buddy!

I have a 19 year old son and, sadly, you have no control over who your daughters marry. You can certainly influence your children but if you take a hard line approach you could very well end up with your adult daughter choosing the man over you. I doubt that you really consider a tattoo worthy of fighting such a battle.

 

[bbarrick8383]

I didn’t insult - nor did I judge. I gave him reason to reconsider tattooing: meeting the parents.

If your daughter brings a guy home that she likes, by throwing him out and telling him to grow up because he has/wants a tattoo, you are making assumptions of his character.

You should respect and be happy that your daughter is seeking your approval. Sit down, get to know the young man and find out about his tattoo. It may be a memorial to a lost parent, you might feel a little bad for being so narrow minded.

Now, dont get me wrong, if he’s got a retarted tattoo, something like 50 cent or something ignorant on his neck then yea…kick him out immediately.

 

[LilyM]

If your daughter brings a guy home that she likes, by throwing him out and telling him to grow up because he has/wants a tattoo, you are making assumptions of his character.

You should respect and be happy that your daughter is seeking your approval. Sit down, get to know the young man and find out about his tattoo. It may be a memorial to a lost parent, you might feel a little bad for being so narrow minded.

Now, dont get me wrong, if he’s got a retarted tattoo, something like 50 cent or something ignorant on his neck then yea…kick him out immediately.

What if he got it when he was a retarded 15-year-old and is now a perfectly mature 24 or 25 year old who regrets having gotten it but cannot afford to get rid of it?

 

[bbarrick8383]

What if he got it when he was a retarded 15-year-old and is now a perfectly mature 24 or 25 year old who regrets having gotten it but cannot afford to get rid of it?

What kind of parents would give permission to a 15 year old to get a tattoo? Obviously hes coming from a jacked up home already, might wanna do some severe background checks on him because that tattoo is probably not the only thing wrong with him.

 

[bbarrick8383]

A person who wants to get or gets a tatoo indicates one, several or all of the following.

1. They’re immature and do it because others do it, it’s a fad, etc.
2. They’re insecure. Just like those who begin smoking because those around them are doing it.
3. They’re unitelligent.
4. They’re low rent.

1. I agree in some instances.
2. Possibly.
3. Not always.
4. You dont have a clue.

There are other reasons people get tattoos. Sometimes they get them because they dont have that smug stuck up personality that others do…

 

[LilyM]

What kind of parents would give permission to a 15 year old to get a tattoo? Obviously hes coming from a jacked up home already, might wanna do some severe background checks on him because that tattoo is probably not the only thing wrong with him.

Oh spare me the moral indignation.

a) if the kid’s been totally clean for 10 years then the minor teenage idiocy of getting a tatoo (and we’ve all been guilty of teenage idiocy) shouldn’t matter

b) In some places parental permission wouldn’t be necessary - not everybody lives in your sheltered neck of the woods.

c) Of course parents are always responsible when kids do things without their knowledge or consent - that’s why 15-year-olds don’t ever need to go to confession - or juvie - or anything, just the parents

 

[maize]

a shorter thread might be “what doesn’t offend a traditionalist?”

 

[bbarrick8383]

Oh spare me the moral indignation.

a) if the kid’s been totally clean for 10 years then the minor teenage idiocy of getting a tatoo (and we’ve all been guilty of teenage idiocy) shouldn’t matter

b) In some places parental permission wouldn’t be necessary - not everybody lives in your sheltered neck of the woods.

c) Of course parents are always responsible when kids do things without their knowledge or consent - that’s why 15-year-olds don’t ever need to go to confession - or juvie - or anything, just the parents

I’m sorry you got so offended LilyM. But if I was the father, then the boy would likely be from my “sheltered neck of the woods”.

a) As a father how am I supposed to know that, that would come through a questioning of the boy and checking him out.

b) In my neck of the woods it is.

c) Partially responsible yes, my parents were strict religious old school people, I did some **** wrong, I have tattoos, but while I was in their house I knew better. Most of what I did was after I moved out. When my dad caught me with a rap tape 15 years ago, you could not tell that it was a tape when he got finished with it.

You said a 25 year old, if I had an 18 year old daughter and she brought home a 25 year old guy, he’s going to get a thorough questioning as would my daughter. This was hypothetical. I was just making a statement earlier, that I would not judge his character soley based on him having a tattoo. But, I would question him on his character based on his tattoo and its location.

 

[Sheeniac]

I consider myself part-Trad (since I love both a reverent NO and the TLM). and I have a tattoo (a small one, in a discreet place). It wouldn’t bother me, and yes, I do think about getting another one. If I did, it would be religiously themed. However, my first one really hurt.

 

[Sheeniac]

Wow - I just read a few more replies and saw how strongly certain people feel.

Just to add a little to the mix, I wanted a tattoo when I was 15. I was told that ‘you wouldn’t want it when you were 30’. I eventually turned 30, and still wanted the darn thing. At 32 I got it, so it’s been about 10 years…

I am neither low-rent, nor unintelligent, nor anything else that was posted.I don’t consider it mutilation (I pierced my ears at 33 - I consider the 2 to be similar). Of course, I color my hair and will consider a face or eye lift when necessary. I purchased a tooth whitening kit this week too, so as you can see, I have no problems with improving or modifying the temple God gave me.

 

[RUINATION_IPA]

Instructing a fellow adult to grow up? Saying a man with Tattoos or who desires Tattoos is not worthy of your daughter?

Perhaps the tone of voice you implied was jovial and I was mistaken.

However I did listen to your sermon, thank you for the source of your argument.

His main arguements are as follows

1. It is a sin against justice because it is mutilation

I assert that using the same logic

Using a hair shirt, cilice or discipline would be mutilation and therefore sinful. Such an assertion is incorrect. Is not inflicting pain upon oneself unnatural. Do not these pious devices leave scares?

1. It is a sin against modesty because it alters the human condition

I would like to draw your attention to the following Saint Radegund pg 394 She branded herself with Christs monogram during her Lenten exercises.

The evidence you presented would have condemned this pious individual. You could view it a religious tattoo as a reminder of your own baptismal promises.

Nmoe,

The examples you bring up are like trying to compare apples with hostess ding dongs. For one, early Church disciplines (and not so early Church) were not meant to inflict marks upon the body as a sign of vanity. A tattoo’s sole purpose is one big mark of vanity despite whatever sentimental attachment you may give it.

Second, I’m not sure what your point is in trying to dig up a Saint who branded herself. I’m sure if you were to ask the same Saint what she thought about tattoos she’d probably tell you how unholy they are. And of course I could probably just as easy find something from St. Alphonsus Ligouri or a host of other Doctors or Fathers of the Church whom just as easily condemn tattooing. And it goes without saying that when the Church declares one a Saint it does not neccessarily mean everything the saint did was absolutely correct and without error.

Now, I’m not saying that every act of tattooing is mortally sinful - I think that would depend on the content of the tattoo & the motivation - in order to make it serious matter - in addition to the other two requirements for a sin to be mortal. However, I think in every text on moral theology out there (I can pull two off my bookshelf now if you like) it would be at a least venially sinful. What makes you think that an individual has a right to permanently mark one’s body? If I entrusted you with a fine piece of China that I made myself and you ended up breaking out your sharpie and doodling on it - that would be a clear violation of the creator’s rights over his property. Your body is not yours and you will be held accountable for what you do with it.

P.S. Don’t dismiss what Fr. Rippberger has to say so easily. He is a highly respected Thomistic Theology Professor of Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary in Nebraska (FSSP) - now stationed in Idaho. He knows his stuff.

Also, I stand by my assertion that those who desire tattoos in their “adulthood” are unfit for my daughters (at least) as it shows a certain immaturity;a deviant adolescent behavior and unwillingness to think for oneself and more seriously: a spirit of worldliness. All reasons enough to not promote such a relationship. And yes, I’m sure there a lot of good people out there who have tattoos - lot’s of good God-fearing men - and I’m not saying there’s not. But if someone comes up who purports to be a good traditionally minded Catholic who takes his faith seriously and wants to raise a family of Saints and do everything right and then says he’s thinking about a tattoo - we’ll there’s going to be quite a few red flags going up.

If you got 'em: Fine (as the sermon says) - you’re under no obligation to get rid of them unless they’re of an immoral nature. But if you don’t currently have 'em - then don’t!