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PRmerger
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And while you’re at it, Dr. Taffy, how 'bout some verifiable evidence that there’s intelligent alien life?
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Gary_Sheldrake
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Thank you again Tonyrey. I agree that an unbridled struggle for survival without cooperation is an untenable model, because it doesn’t account for the co-dependencies upon which life seems to be ordered. That said, I think that we are quickly creating such an environment on a social level which is rapidly bringing about our demise. This has not been problematic in the past when civilizations fell, for instance as was the case with Rome, Greece, and the Aztecs and so on, because there were other civilizations to carry on, and in some cases these other cultures took their place. The problem now is that we have created a global system based on unchecked capitalist survival of the fittest, and this time it’s the only game in town. If it were to implode, there is nothing to take it’s place. To compound the problem, the model of trickle up wealth and trickle down exploitation and poverty is not a sustainable system in the long run, and stress fractures are apparent in increasing numbers. This is all just my opinion of course, however, if pressed, I could explain how I have come to entertain these ideas, but that would be the subject of another thread.Another superb post, Gary.
Without co-operation the struggle for survival would have ended in extinction!
Thanks,
Gary
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tonyrey
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It’s not only your opinion, Gary, but the opinion of millions who are suffering unnecessarily because of others’ selfishness, greed and heartlessness. The Church should baptise alien visitors so that they wouldn’t become contaminated…
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Gary_Sheldrake
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Contaminated with what?
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Gary_Sheldrake
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Sorry about that - I didn’t understand what you were saying, but I think I get it now.
Thanks,
Gary
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tonyrey
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It’s not your fault, Gary. Sometimes my statements are too cryptic.
The worst form of pollution is morally detestable and scientifically undetectable!
Happy New Year.
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Rock7
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I for one disbelieve in ET. UFOs are demonic phenomena that teach new age doctrines and occultism. Every thing these wicked creatures teach is new age philosophy, Gaia worship, channeling, spiritism, pantheism as well as numerous other false doctrines and heresies. It is my firm belief that extraterrestrial life is part of the last days deception.
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PRmerger
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What evidence do you have for this, Rock?
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mikekle
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Can you provide some evidence of this? From what Ive seen, all UFOs dont teach anything…they hover in the sky for a few seconds and then dart off or disappear, Ive never heard of any of them actually landing and attempting to even communicate with anyone, less teach them anything.
Plus, as far as I know, we have no official alien documents or writings that would lead someone to think they are trying to sway peoples opinions…there is nothing of this kind, so if they are trying to teach people something, they are doing a pretty awful job at it!
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DrTaffy
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Yo Gary.
First off, I am afraid that I am not finding time to keep up with threads on CAF, so cannot promise to respond. But I will at least read any reply of yours - eventually!
That being said, ‘natural selection’, at least as biologists use the term, is the process we directly observe in experiments such as Lenski’s.
This is absolutely true, at least in so far as ‘evolution’ is not solely about hostile competition (which does also take place) but also involves a lot of symbiotic and altruistic development. This has been known for a long time, even Richard Dawkins’ book “The Selfish Gene” has a big section on altruism and cooperation, from an evolutionary perspective. I do not know, but suspect, that you might be thinking of a caricature of modern evolutionary theory similar to that proposed by many creationists. The real thing is both fascinating, beautiful and in no way incompatible with a belief in God or any Catholic doctrine I know.
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DrTaffy
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Well, I certainly cannot force you to engage in debate, but if you are not going to do, even to the point of refusing to elaborate on a point you have made that I find intriguing, why on earth would I answer your questions?
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DrTaffy
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Well, that is very condescending of you, but in fact I am. I am even familiar with modal verbs, but since you either cannot or will not grasp the very obvious difference between asserting the possibility or the actuality of something, I am not going to tackle the subtleties of english grammar with you.
However, as any english speaker could tell you, the statement “I could say that God falls into category 2” does indeed assert that you could say that God falls into category 2, whereas in fact you could not, logically. You may as well play the schoolyardy card of claiming that you merely meant that you were physically capable of saying the words “God falls into category 2”, not that you could assert logically that he did so.
Yeah, but no. It is not a hypothetical syllogism - as the link you cite would tell you. There is no conditional.
“If I had proof of God’s possibility, then I could say that God falls into category 2” would have been both a hypothetical syllogism and a defensible statement, but what you actually wrote was neither.
So, to sum up:
You claim simultaneously that God’s possibility is both proven and not proven.
You claim simultaneously that the possibility of alien life is both proven and not proven.
You criticise me for being willing merely to consider the possibility of alien life, while conceding that that possibility is proven. Indeed you criticise me for doing so without proof, while conceding that I have proven it.
You criticise me as being inconsistent by not being willing to consider the possibility of God, knowing full well that I actually do consider the possibility of God and while conceding that you cannot prove his possibility, giving a perfectly logical justification for treating that assertion differently from that of alien life.
At the same time you assert the actuality of God, while being unable to prove even his possibility, while refusing to even consider the possibility of alien life, which you admit to being proven.
Well, if that is the wisdom I can hope to learn from ‘knowledgeable Catholics’, no thanks!
As I said to Gary, I’m off. Watch out for fierce billy goats!
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PRmerger
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That’s too bad. But I think it’s smart of you to leave the room if you’re going to attempt to discuss the subtleties of English grammar with me.Well, that is very condescending of you, but in fact I am. I am even familiar with modal verbs, but since you either cannot or will not grasp the very obvious difference between asserting the possibility or the actuality of something, I am not going to tackle the subtleties of english grammar with you.
(BTW: capitalization is part of grammar.)
I really wasn’t making an assertion at all about God’s existence, as it applied to our discussion.However, as any **english **speaker could tell you, the statement “I could say that God falls into category 2” does indeed assert that you could say that God falls into category 2, whereas in fact you could not, logically. You may as well play the schoolyardy card of claiming that you merely meant that you were physically capable of saying the words “God falls into category 2”, not that you could assert logically that he did so.
I was merely stating that your assignation was rather arbitrary.
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PRmerger
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Very smart to leave.
It’s quite telling when you do.
And I was having so much fun! :sad_yes:
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mikekle
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You wanted some definite proof… I came across this earlier today, if this is not proof, I dont know what would be, and this is straight from our own Govts mouth.
ufo-blogger.com/2011/04/nsa-alien-messages-received.html
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PRmerger
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I did a bit of research on this alleged “Dr. Howard Campaigne”. Couldn’t find anything at all about him, except for the same “cut and paste” bio: “Dr. Campaigne is one of the top cryptologists on the planet with years and years of service to Naval Security Group”
But he’s not even on wiki.
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mikekle
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That is not surprising, look at the field this takes place in after all. Why would the NSA allow such a thing to be released and remain, if it were a pure fabrication?I did a bit of research on this alleged “Dr. Howard Campaigne”. Couldn’t find anything at all about him, except for the same “cut and paste” bio: “Dr. Campaigne is one of the top cryptologists on the planet with years and years of service to Naval Security Group”
But he’s not even on wiki.
this looks pretty darn close to a smoking gun IMO, its just sad it was not reported on by any media outlet…Gee, I wonder why?LOL
Im also very curious about what those particular messages said as well…that is the big question.
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PRmerger
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The question is whether this is really a NSA document at all. I can’t find anything which corroborates this. Nor whether this “top crytpologist” even exists.
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Ion
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All creatures have life from God. But how can you know the aliens are not in fact devils?
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Ben_Quincy
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WARNING
Discuss the topic, not each other
Discuss the topic, not each other
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