Would the Church Fathers be down with "ecumenism"?

[thunderballs75]

Do you guys think that the Church Fathers were more concerned with mutual agreement with other religions/sects, or trying to convert them to the truth?

Are there any writings of the Church Fathers dealing with ecumenism?
Are there any writings of the Church Fathers dealing with heresies and apologetics?

 

[palmas85]

Do you guys think that the Church Fathers were more concerned with mutual agreement with other religions/sects, or trying to convert them to the truth?

Are there any writings of the Church Fathers dealing with ecumenism?
Are there any writings of the Church Fathers dealing with heresies and apologetics?

The Church Fathers wrote extensively about heresies and the true faith. No they were not the least bit interested in ecumenism because they knew what the truth was and were not afraid to point it out, even if if offended someone hurt someones feelings or dare I say it,or state that another faith or belief system was flat out wrong:bigyikes::bigyikes:

They believed in exactly one way to salvation. Not two or three of a hundred.

ONE

 

[Tsuwano]

Do you guys think that the Church Fathers were more concerned with mutual agreement with other religions/sects, or trying to convert them to the truth?

Are there any writings of the Church Fathers dealing with ecumenism?
Are there any writings of the Church Fathers dealing with heresies and apologetics?

Ecumenism is not about reaching mutual agreement with other religions or sects. It’s about listening to the faith experience of the other, discerning how that faith experience may enrich your own, and recognizing that the search for holiness, however imperfect, is a grace - filled endeavor.

 

[thunderballs75]

Ecumenism is not about reaching mutual agreement with other religions or sects. It’s about listening to the faith experience of the other, discerning how that faith experience may enrich your own, and recognizing that the search for holiness, however imperfect, is a grace - filled endeavor.

Do you think the Church Fathers would have tried to enrich their own faith through other religions, or other people through the correct religion? I’m just wondering what they would have thought.

 

[Tsuwano]

Do you think the Church Fathers would have tried to enrich their own faith through other religions, or other people through the correct religion? I’m just wondering what they would have thought.

I think the Church Fathers would have recognized the search for faith as holy and would have reflected upon the gift of their own faith and the grace filled paths they followed to reach it.

 

[jmcrae]

Having read their rebuttals to the various heresies, it doesn’t seem to me like they would have had the patience for the “soft pedal” approach. St. Dominic defeated the Albigensian heresy by means of the Rosary, but it seems like the first thing the people in the ecumenical movement do is throw away their Rosaries, along with everything else that is distinctively Catholic.

 

[Tsuwano]

Having read their rebuttals to the various heresies, it doesn’t seem to me like they would have had the patience for the “soft pedal” approach. St. Dominic defeated the Albigensian heresy by means of the Rosary, but it seems like the first thing the people in the ecumenical movement do is throw away their Rosaries, along with everything else that is distinctively Catholic.

Considering how the Holy Father, the Curia and most bishops are among the greatest supporters of the ecumenical movement, I don’t see how this is true.

 

[sancte_joseph]

Considering how the Holy Father, the Curia and most bishops are among the greatest supporters of the ecumenical movement, I don’t see how this is true.

Just because the holy Father supports something doesn’t automaticlly make it correct…
I myself consider myself a person who believes everything that the Magisterium of the Church says… even if its not something i HAVE TO believe like a certain dogma…

So i do believe ecumenism has a place in the Holy Catholic Faith “BUT” we must make sure there is no confusion… We must clearly state that The ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH IS THE CHURCH WHICH CHRIST ESTABLISHED OUTSIDE OF WHICH THERE IS NO SALVATION…

ecumenism shouldn’t be something to enrich our own faith which shouldn’t be infulenced by false religions but rather… it should be a way for different religions to come to an understanding that many of times out religion seek the same thing… TRUTH AND GOODNESS… etc.

 

[bpbasilphx]

but it seems like the first thing the people in the ecumenical movement do is throw away their Rosaries, along with everything else that is distinctively Catholic.

---

**“Catholic” and “Latin” are not synonyms.

The local Melkite parish is quite Catholic, but nobody says the Rosary.

What the Church fathers were writing against were principally Christological heresies that do not exist now–if they ever did in the forms condemned by the Ecumenical Councils.**

 

[Tsuwano]

Just because the holy Father supports something doesn’t automaticlly make it correct…
I myself consider myself a person who believes everything that the Magisterium of the Church says… even if its not something i HAVE TO believe like a certain dogma…

So i do believe ecumenism has a place in the Holy Catholic Faith “BUT” we must make sure there is no confusion… We must clearly state that The ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH IS THE CHURCH WHICH CHRIST ESTABLISHED OUTSIDE OF WHICH THERE IS NO SALVATION…

ecumenism shouldn’t be something to enrich our own faith which shouldn’t be infulenced by false religions but rather… it should be a way for different religions to come to an understanding that many of times out religion seek the same thing… TRUTH AND GOODNESS… etc.

In a previous post someone stated that it seems that the first thing supporters of ecumenism do is throw away their rosaries along with other things that are “Catholic.” My post, in response, was to point out that the Pope, the Curia and many bishops support ecumenism and yet, to my knowledge, have yet to jettison their rosaries. In other words, I don’t believe the previous poster’s assumptions concerning those who support ecumenism to be true.

 

[Tsuwano]

but it seems like the first thing the people in the ecumenical movement do is throw away their Rosaries, along with everything else that is distinctively Catholic.

---

**“Catholic” and “Latin” are not synonyms.

The local Melkite parish is quite Catholic, but nobody says the Rosary.

What the Church fathers were writing against were principally Christological heresies that do not exist now–if they ever did in the forms condemned by the Ecumenical Councils.**

Excellent points.

 

[palmas85]

I think the Church Fathers would have recognized the search for faith as holy and would have reflected upon the gift of their own faith and the grace filled paths they followed to reach it.

However it is a known historical fact that they did not. To them if you did not follow the correct belief system, you were wrong.

The correct belief system was and still is the Catholic Church.

The move towards a total acceptance of ecumenism is a very, very recent development within the Church.

Very recent indeed.

 

[Tsuwano]

However it is a known historical fact that they did not. To them if you did not follow the correct belief system, you were wrong.

The correct belief system was and still is the Catholic Church.

The move towards a total acceptance of ecumenism is a very, very recent development within the Church.

Very recent indeed.

Do you mean to tell me it is an historical fact that the Church Fathers did not believe the search for faith is holy or reflect upon the grace filled path that led them to faith? I find that hard to believe. If you wish me to believe that ecumenism is a recent development within the Church, well, that much I can accept. If you wish me to believe that the Church Fathers were fully convinced of the truthfulness of their Christian faith, that much I can accept as well. In fact, I stand with the Church Fathers in this conviction. But it cannot be proven historically that they did not reflect upon their faith. Indeed, it would seem to me that in order to reach the levels of faith that they did reach, they would, by necessity, have to reflect upon their faith. I believe what you are trying to say is that the Church Fathers were not as tolerant or as willing to cooperate with other faiths as our Church leaders are today. This is true, and reflects a completely different set of historical circumstances. If Saints Ambrose and Athanasius was living today, their responses to people of other faiths would probably be different, though I have no doubt their convictions would still be as strong as they ever were.

 

[jmcrae]

Do you mean to tell me it is an historical fact that the Church Fathers did not believe the search for faith is holy or reflect upon the grace filled path that led them to faith?

How has this got anything to do with Ecumenism?

I find that hard to believe. If you wish me to believe that ecumenism is a recent development within the Church, well, that much I can accept. If you wish me to believe that the Church Fathers were fully convinced of the truthfulness of their Christian faith, that much I can accept as well. In fact, I stand with the Church Fathers in this conviction.

Good.

But it cannot be proven historically that they did not reflect upon their faith.

What do you mean by this? Of course they reflected on their faith - but they did not need to go to Arian or Nestorian chapels, in order to do so, nor do we find any record of them “finding the good” in the various heresies of their particular eras, or having prayer groups and Bible studies with them in order to learn how to incorporate their styles of worship and study into our own religion.

Indeed, it would seem to me that in order to reach the levels of faith that they did reach, they would, by necessity, have to reflect upon their faith.

And again, what has this to do with Ecumenism?

 

[Tsuwano]

How has this got anything to do with Ecumenism?

Good.

What do you mean by this? Of course they reflected on their faith - but they did not need to go to Arian or Nestorian chapels, in order to do so, nor do we find any record of them “finding the good” in the various heresies of their particular eras, or having prayer groups and Bible studies with them in order to learn how to incorporate their styles of worship and study into our own religion.

And again, what has this to do with Ecumenism?

I’m sorry you’re confused. If you follow the thread you’ll see that I am responding to other posts which seem to question the usefulness of ecumenism. A previous poster asked how I thought the Church Fathers would respond to ecumenism. I said I think they would have been led to reflect upon the holiness of the search for faith and their own journey toward faith. Ecumenism is about listening to the faith journey of others and respecting the sincerity of that search for faith. It does not mean accepting the theology of that faith or incorporating foreign forms of worship into our own. From the Catholic perspective, ecumenism should move toward an acceptance of the truth of Jesus as expressed in our faith, but the first step is to recognize a sincere desire on the part of the other believer to seek the truth. The early Church Fathers responded to a set of historical circumstances that no longer exist in our era. They defended the faith in a particular way at a particular time against a particular foe. Defense of the faith in our time does not require the same kind of response initiated by the Church Fathers. Ecumenism is one tool we use to defend and explain our own faith today. It should not be confused with “watering down” the faith or “giving in” to other faiths. This is a misunderstanding of what ecumenism is about.

 

[thunderballs75]

In my opinion, I honestly don’t see how they would respond differently to other religions today. Look at the instance of St. John of Damascus. Judaism and Islam were very much the same in his time as they are today. Look at his statements. Now look at the statements of current Church leaders. What do you guys think?

I believe in religious tolerance by the way.

 

[Humbled1]

Ecumenism is one tool we use to defend and explain our own faith today. It should not be confused with “watering down” the faith or “giving in” to other faiths. This is a misunderstanding of what ecumenism is about.

I think this is where the confusion lies. Way too many times I’ve been told, in my local parish, that this is what it’s about. That ecumenism is more of a join hands and sing “Kumbayah” because no one is really right and no one is really wrong.

I know that this in not what ecumenism truly is, but I think that a lot of Catholics, including some priests, need a refresher.

 

[Tsuwano]

I think this is where the confusion lies. Way too many times I’ve been told, in my local parish, that this is what it’s about. That ecumenism is more of a join hands and sing “Kumbayah” because no one is really right and no one is really wrong.

I know that this in not what ecumenism truly is, but I think that a lot of Catholics, including some priests, need a refresher.

I think you’re right, but when you talk with people who are actually involved in dialog with representatives of other faiths, you realize that most of these men and women are deeply devoted to their Catholic faith and do their work precisely because of their conviction that Jesus and his Church are the means God has chosen to bring all people to salvation. They are not interested in false symbols of unity or in singing “Kumbayah,” but that doesn’t mean they don’t believe there is nothing to be gained from attempting to understand the faith experiences of others or that different faiths, working together, can bring about a better environment for believers of all faiths. I am familiar with a priest who has spent years studying a foreign language, more years studying Buddhism, and even more years studying the concept of charity and welfare in Buddhism, not for the purpose of becoming a Buddhist, but for the purpose of presenting Christ and his Gospel to others in a language and method they can understand and accept. In the modern world we do a great disservice to our faith if we utilize crusades, inquisitions, or evagelical type condemnations to present the Gospel to others. Our best weapon today is patient understanding, firm knowledge of our own faith and a deeply held belief that the Holy Spirit guides our endeavors.

 

[Tsuwano]

In my opinion, I honestly don’t see how they would respond differently to other religions today. Look at the instance of St. John of Damascus. Judaism and Islam were very much the same in his time as they are today. Look at his statements. Now look at the statements of current Church leaders. What do you guys think?

I believe in religious tolerance by the way.

I know you’re probably tired of hearing from me, so after this last comment I’ll shut up for awhile. I honestly believe that the Church Fathers, if they were living today in the light of our experience with representative democracy and universal suffrage, in the shadow of the Holocaust, the carnage of two world wars and the atomic bomb, and at the end of the glorious heritage of lived Christianity after two millenium, would temper their devout faith with tolerance, a firm determination to seek understanding in peace and an even stronger understanding of Christ’s presence in the Church and in human history. The holiness which compelled these men to defend their faith during their own time on Earth would, in the modern era, compell them to defend their faith in a different manner and by using methods designed to win hearts for Christ, not through fear or intimidation, but through pursuasion and love.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Yes. The faiths battled in the Church Fathers day is different than today. Christianity has permeated cultures in varying ways and is ripe for Catholicization. The Jewish nation was kept apart from gentiles until they were to go into the world as the Church. Perhaps the same is now and the tribulation we experience is a test for the Church.

Those who throw out Rosaries or any of the faith handed down are being evangelized, not evangelizing. They are reeds shaken in the wind and are weak even when there is no wind. They don’t need a reason to lose their faith and keeping them away from evangelizing won’t make them good Catholics.