Would there be any concerns if (from the Catholic perspective) if a Catholic were to practise two religions such as Catholicism and Buddhism?

Sufjon · Apr 4, 2011

ChristIsTheWay said:
I have no problem noting similarities but we have to remember that, despite similarities, He was not any of those things. We must also note the dissimilarities.

I am not sure your connections with a Buddha and a Shaman are correct. We also must not forget the differences between an Avatar and the Incarnation.

What in your estimation is the difference between Jesus and an Avatar? What in your opinion are the dissimilarities between the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of other Avatars? I would prefer to stick to what Jesus actually said if you would please.

Your friend
Sufjon

SedesDomi · Apr 4, 2011

Wrong number.

agent_grey · Apr 4, 2011

A couple of things to watch out for.

While buddhist do not worship statues you must be sure to also not worship a statue. Buddhist use a statue to envision themselves outside their physical body. They meditate and invision the statue as there body as a mechanism of release from physical existance. Be carefull here. You and your body are inseperable. Without it you can’t exist. If your leave your body you might return to find something new in place.

The ultimate goal of budhism is release from desire. To no longer have any desires. In order to know God you must desire and act towards such. Be carefull here.

Aside from that budhism is a phylosophy and not a religion. Just be sure that what you take from budhism doesn’t diminish or change the human experience or existance.

ChristIsTheWay · Apr 4, 2011

Sufjon said:
What in your estimation is the difference between Jesus and an Avatar? What in your opinion are the dissimilarities between the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of other Avatars? I would prefer to stick to what Jesus actually said if you would please.

Your friend
Sufjon

My understanding of Avatars is not perfect but as I understand it, an Avatar is not so much an incarnation of a deity as a human being as it is a deity taking on the appearance of a human being. This is docetism, which proposes Christ appeared as human while remaining only and fully divine. Perhaps this isn’t the most reliable source but this Wikipedia article describes it a bit more: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar

As for the differences in teachings, I can only point to the common ideas found in Hinduism, like reincarnation, karma, multiple “manifestations” of deity, pantheism/panentheism (Hinduism is, as I understand, quite diverse), etc. Christ did not teach such things and it is only by forcing an alien context on Him, like making Him an “avatar” and reading His teachings in this alien context does one make the mistake of thinking He did teach such things.

Sufjon · Apr 4, 2011

ChristIsTheWay said:
My understanding of Avatars is not perfect but as I understand it, an Avatar is not so much an incarnation of a deity as a human being as it is a deity taking on the appearance of a human being. This is docetism, which proposes Christ appeared as human while remaining only and fully divine. Perhaps this isn’t the most reliable source but this Wikipedia article describes it a bit more: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar
Hi ChristIsTheWay: Yes, I read the Wikipedia link you provided. Unfortunately, it is not all that accurate. I can assure you that most any well-schooled any Hindu will see Krishna as a fully human and fully divine Incarnation of God. Apparitions don’t get killed by arrows. Of course we believe He could have survived it if had wanted to, but he stood up and said that His work for that time around was done. Krishna and Jesus were human incarnations of the same God.
ChristIsTheWay;7725917:

As for the differences in teachings, I can only point to the common ideas found in Hinduism, like reincarnation, karma, multiple “manifestations” of deity, pantheism/panentheism (Hinduism is, as I understand, quite diverse), etc. Christ did not teach such things and it is only by forcing an alien context on Him, like making Him an “avatar” and reading His teachings in this alien context does one make the mistake of thinking He did teach such things.

Click to expand...

If I look at the words of Jesus, I don’t see any contradiction. It’s fine with me if Christians do. I am not trying to change what anyone thinks. You’ll find God well enough on the path you’re on, but rest assured, so will I.

Your friend,
Sufjon

catharina · Apr 4, 2011

I’ll now depart this thread for legitimate reasons.

ChristIsTheWay · Apr 4, 2011

Sufjon said:
Hi ChristIsTheWay: Yes, I read the Wikipedia link you provided. Unfortunately, it is not all that accurate. I can assure you that most any well-schooled any Hindu will see Krishna as a fully human and fully divine Incarnation of God. Apparitions don’t get killed by arrows. Of course we believe He could have survived it if had wanted to, but he stood up and said that His work for that time around was done.

I see. Well, that is interesting.

Sufjon said:
Krishna and Jesus were human incarnations of the same God.

Can Krishna be established as an historical figure? I don’t mean that offensively, I am actually quite curious. Is there a consensus amongst secular scholars about the historicity of Krishna, dates for His life, etc?

Sufjon said:
If I look at the words of Jesus, I don’t see any contradiction.

I am sorry but I can’t see how one can reach that conclusion. To understand what Jesus taught, we have to engage in careful exegesis of the text. I think one can only reach the conclusion that Christ’s teachings do not conflict with an idea like reincarnation or karma by viewing His words through the lens of Hinduism. I don’t think that is an objective or scholarly way of doing so.

Sufjon said:
You’ll find God well enough on the path you’re on, but rest assured, so will I.

I am not here to judge you, friend, or to cast stones. I’m just struggling to understand your position on interpreting the teachings of Christ.

The_Sentry · Apr 4, 2011

If this thread had been about “concerns if a Catholic were also a Protestant,” I suspect it would have caused much more outrage.

Sufjon · Apr 5, 2011

Oh yeah, blame it on Suffon.

You have to admit, that was hilarious to see you start ranting about John Lennon after my post was gone.

Actually he said that Jesus was okay. The is that His disciples were ordinary and thick. I believe he spoke the truth on that did he not?

Your friend
Sfjon

GaryTaylor · Apr 5, 2011

I don’t remember that quote from John Lennon. I do remember Lennon making a public statement the he had now become more popular than Jesus Christ.

God Bless, Gary

LDNCatholic · Apr 5, 2011

Sufjon said:
Actually he said that Jesus was okay. The is that His disciples were ordinary and thick. I believe he spoke the truth on that did he not?

Your friend
Sfjon

Hardly a comment one would expect from a ‘friend’. Unless I am misreading.

OP: From the Catholic perspective it is wrong to mix non Catholic practices into your spiritual life.

All my Buddhist and Hindu friends: We know that you believe that your religion encompasses everything that Christianity teaches, and that often members of your religions believe that Christ came to bring forth the same message that Buddhism held for 500 years beforehand and Hinduism for thousands of years before that (Funnily enough some Hindus have done the same with the Buddha, declaring him an Avatar of Vishnu, as for the reason why, well that’s another thread possibly on another forum).

But. The OP already knew all that. They were asking about the Catholic perspective.

Sufjon · Apr 5, 2011

LDNCatholic said:
Hardly a comment one would expect from a ‘friend’. Unless I am misreading.

OP: From the Catholic perspective it is wrong to mix non Catholic practices into your spiritual life.

All my Buddhist and Hindu friends: We know that you believe that your religion encompasses everything that Christianity teaches, and that often members of your religions believe that Christ came to bring forth the same message that Buddhism held for 500 years beforehand and Hinduism for thousands of years before that (Funnily enough some Hindus have done the same with the Buddha, declaring him an Avatar of Vishnu, as for the reason why, well that’s another thread possibly on another forum).

But. The OP already knew all that. They were asking about the Catholic perspective.

Dear LDNCatholic: I am indeed your friend. But friends don’t lie to friends.Basically Lennon had been exposed to eastern religion. Coming from an eastern perspective, it would also be clear to an eastern reader that Jesus spoke enduring yet familiar truths that are rather complex in nature. It also would appear to us that His disciples passage by passage boiled it all down into a rather primitive and tribal message. They were indeed portrayed as simple fishermen or tradesmen. What they wrote is still a path to God, and therefore it’s sacred. It’s just not for everyone.

As for mixing religions, I use some Christian practices and I think it’s quite fine to do so.

Your friend,
Sufjon

LDNCatholic · Apr 5, 2011

Sufjon said:
Dear LDNCatholic: I am indeed your friend. But friends don’t lie to friends.Basically Lennon had been exposed to eastern religion.

Friends also don’t call friends thick. Lennon was no bastion of morality or wisdom himself.

Sufjon said:
Coming from an eastern perspective, it would also be clear to an eastern reader that Jesus spoke enduring yet familiar truths that are rather complex in nature. It also would appear to us that His disciples passage by passage boiled it all down into a rather primitive and tribal message. They were indeed portrayed as simple fishermen or tradesmen. What they wrote is still a path to God, and therefore it’s sacred. It’s just not for everyone.

All due respect let’s not get into talk of primitive and tribal messages. I can assure you that for every aspect of Christianity you view as primitive there is an equally primitive and tribal practice within Hinduism.

I have plenty of exposure to Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist philosophy. I have no intention of turning my back on Christianity. I understand your argument, and I respect your right to your opinion.

Sufjon said:
As for mixing religions, I use some Christian practices and I think it’s quite fine to do so.

Your friend,
Sufjon

As I stated. As a Hindu you see no problem with this. That’s fine to an extent (the extent being recieving the Eucharist which I’m sure you’d be respectful enough not to do). However from the Catholic perspective, which the OP asked about, this is not something to be practiced.

Havard · Apr 5, 2011

Sufjon said:
I am aware that is what you believe. I am aware of the cultural influences that created the context from which Jesus would later be viewed by Christians. What I am saying is that a person from some Eastern religions would see nothing new in anything Jesus said or did. I understand that Christians think it is something new, but I have yet to see anything new in any of it. That doesn’t mean it’s bad or wrong. My understanding of Jesus is simply different than yours.

Your friend
Sufjon

Again, I take issue with this. You didn’t respond to my earlier post, perhaps it would be helpful if I gave you more to respond to.

Do the eastern faiths teach that…
-There is a Supreme Being, a singular Deific Creator of all things, who has a personal relationship with each individual man and woman created?
-Morality is absolute, that truth can only be objective and universal (not relative, or personal), and further, that it is a specifically manifestation of divine law?
-Truth is exoteric?
-God created the world out of nothing rather than emanating it out of His own substance or merely shaping some pre-existing material?
-Mankind are wholly alienated from the Divine (though loved by Him)?
-Mankind is stained with original sin?
-Only by sacrificing His Son, mankind could be freed of original sin?
-Mankind may achieve salvation only through a personal relationship with the Supreme Being?
-Sacraments are necessary to our salvation?

I’m sure there are plenty more examples of how Judaism and Christianity are new and different, but that was just a short list from the top of my head.

Sufjon · Apr 5, 2011

Havard said:
Again, I take issue with this. You didn’t respond to my earlier post, perhaps it would be helpful if I gave you more to respond to.

Do the eastern faiths teach that…
-There is a Supreme Being, a singular Deific Creator of all things, who has a personal relationship with each individual man and woman created?
-Morality is absolute, that truth can only be objective and universal (not relative, or personal), and further, that it is a specifically manifestation of divine law?
-Truth is exoteric?
-God created the world out of nothing rather than emanating it out of His own substance or merely shaping some pre-existing material?
-Mankind are wholly alienated from the Divine (though loved by Him)?
-Mankind is stained with original sin?
-Only by sacrificing His Son, mankind could be freed of original sin?
-Mankind may achieve salvation only through a personal relationship with the Supreme Being?
-Sacraments are necessary to our salvation?

I’m sure there are plenty more examples of how Judaism and Christianity are new and different, but that was just a short list from the top of my head.

Dear Havard: I have been through this sort of discussion enough times on this forum to tire of it. While I cannot speak for all eastern religions (there are quite a few), and can speak for mine, and I see no contradictions in anything Jesus said or did with what I believe or what is generally believed by members of my faith. I do see contradictions between how many Christians interpret what He said and did, and how we would interpret it.

I will, however, answer your questions from the perspective of my faith, which doesn’t necessarily speak for all eastern faiths:

Do the eastern faiths teach that…

-There is a Supreme Being, a singular Deific Creator of all things, who has a personal relationship with each individual man and woman created?

Answer: Yes

-Morality is absolute, that truth can only be objective and universal (not relative, or personal), and further, that it is a specifically manifestation of divine law?

Answer: Yes, but it isn’t necessarily the case that you or any given person you are talking to knows the truth.

-Truth is exoteric?

Answer: Yes

-God created the world out of nothing rather than emanating it out of His own substance or merely shaping some pre-existing material?

Answer: He is constantly remaking things out of pre-existing substance, but He also made the pre-existing substance. It is all His, but it is all ever-changing in the physical realm. I cannot see the same cloud that passed by yesterday when I look for it tomorrow as it is now a puddle somewhere, but it was all made by God.

-Mankind are wholly alienated from the Divine (though loved by Him)?

Answer: I do not believe that I am alienated from God in truth, only in perception.

-Mankind is stained with original sin?

Answer: Yes, mankind is encumbered by the original sin, and that sin is ignorance of what we are and lack of understanding of our relationship to God. It is also falling prey to the illusion of death, which Jesus put to rest by rising again. It is not a state of being bad.

-Only by sacrificing His Son, mankind could be freed of original sin?

Answer: Jesus tempora****rily sacrificed his body to free human kind from original sin, the nature of which I have described in the bullet above.

-Mankind may achieve salvation only through a personal relationship with the Supreme Being?

Answer: Mankind has a personal relationship with God whether mankind wants one or not. Mankind has a personal relationship with God whether mankind knows it or not. The objective is to realize the relationship one has with God, and with this knowledge one is indeed set free.

-Sacraments are necessary to our salvation?

Answer: That’s a great question Answering it would be rather like trying to nail a drop of water to the wall without giving me some consensus on what all Christians agree on in regards to sacraments. Holy Orders? Reconciliation? Anointing of the Sick? Also, some of them are mutually exclusive, in that if you get one you can’t have the other, is that not true?

Your friend,
Sufjon

Sufjon · Apr 5, 2011

LDNCatholic said:
Friends also don’t call friends thick. Lennon was no bastion of morality or wisdom himself.

All due respect let’s not get into talk of primitive and tribal messages. I can assure you that for every aspect of Christianity you view as primitive there is an equally primitive and tribal practice within Hinduism.

I have plenty of exposure to Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist philosophy. I have no intention of turning my back on Christianity. I understand your argument, and I respect your right to your opinion.

As I stated. As a Hindu you see no problem with this. That’s fine to an extent (the extent being recieving the Eucharist which I’m sure you’d be respectful enough not to do). However from the Catholic perspective, which the OP asked about, this is not something to be practiced.

Dear LDN Catholic: I do not disagree with most of what you have said above, except I would disagree that I called you thick. I said that I agree with a statement that someone made about the disciples being thick. I do believe that, but that is my personal opinion, and I did not say that you were thick, although I will agree that’s not the kind of word I would use. I would have said that the original disciples were some very ordinary people who came into contact with something well beyond their comprehension. Of course the whole matter is superfluous, because the original disciples who knew Jesus didn’t write any of the commonly recognized gospels in the first place, so who knows how much of what they understood to be the truth got conveyed into what we have on hand anyway?

OrdinaryMelkite · Apr 5, 2011

Sufjon said:
Dear Havard: I have been through this sort of discussion enough times on this forum to tire of it. While I cannot speak for all eastern religions (there are quite a few), and can speak for mine, and I see no contradictions in anything Jesus said or did with what I believe or what is generally believed by members of my faith. I do see contradictions between how many Christians interpret what He said and did, and how we would interpret it.

I will, however, answer your questions from the perspective of my faith, which doesn’t necessarily speak for all eastern faiths:

Do the eastern faiths teach that…

-There is a Supreme Being, a singular Deific Creator of all things, who has a personal relationship with each individual man and woman created?

Answer: Yes

-Morality is absolute, that truth can only be objective and universal (not relative, or personal), and further, that it is a specifically manifestation of divine law?

Answer: Yes, but it isn’t necessarily the case that you or any given person you are talking to knows the truth.

-Truth is exoteric?

Answer: Yes

-God created the world out of nothing rather than emanating it out of His own substance or merely shaping some pre-existing material?

Answer: He is constantly remaking things out of pre-existing substance, but He also made the pre-existing substance. It is all His, but it is all ever-changing in the physical realm. I cannot see the same cloud that passed by yesterday when I look for it tomorrow as it is now a puddle somewhere, but it was all made by God.

-Mankind are wholly alienated from the Divine (though loved by Him)?

Answer: I do not believe that I am alienated from God in truth, only in perception.

-Mankind is stained with original sin?

Answer: Yes, mankind is encumbered by the original sin, and that sin is ignorance of what we are and lack of understanding of our relationship to God. It is also falling prey to the illusion of death, which Jesus put to rest by rising again. It is not a state of being bad.

-Only by sacrificing His Son, mankind could be freed of original sin?

Answer: Jesus tempora****rily sacrificed his body to free human kind from original sin, the nature of which I have described in the bullet above.

-Mankind may achieve salvation only through a personal relationship with the Supreme Being?

Answer: Mankind has a personal relationship with God whether mankind wants one or not. Mankind has a personal relationship with God whether mankind knows it or not. The objective is to realize the relationship one has with God, and with this knowledge one is indeed set free.

-Sacraments are necessary to our salvation?

Answer: That’s a great question Answering it would be rather like trying to nail a drop of water to the wall without giving me some consensus on what all Christians agree on in regards to sacraments. Holy Orders? Reconciliation? Anointing of the Sick? Also, some of them are mutually exclusive, in that if you get one you can’t have the other, is that not true?

Your friend,
Sufjon

Sounds like a subtle, slightly warmed-over type of pantheism to me, Sufjon.

OrdinaryMelkite · Apr 5, 2011

Sufjon said:
Dear LDN Catholic: I do not disagree with most of what you have said above, except I would disagree that I called you thick. I said that I agree with a statement that someone made about the disciples being thick. I do believe that, but that is my personal opinion, and I did not say that you were thick, although I will agree that’s not the kind of word I would use. I would have said that the original disciples were some very ordinary people who came into contact with something well beyond their comprehension. Of course the whole matter is superfluous, because the original disciples who knew Jesus didn’t write any of the commonly recognized gospels in the first place, so who knows how much of what they understood to be the truth got conveyed into what we have on hand anyway?

The authors of the Gospels were thick, Sufjon? Why? Sincerely I ask that, BTW.

LDNCatholic · Apr 6, 2011

Sufjon said:
Of course the whole matter is superfluous, because the original disciples who knew Jesus didn’t write any of the commonly recognized gospels in the first place, so who knows how much of what they understood to be the truth got conveyed into what we have on hand anyway?

We can say much the same for every piece of Hindu scripture in existence which have no discernible author.

I have made a mistake Sufjon. When you used the Lennon quote about disciples I assumed you were speaking about all Christians, not the Twelve.

I am sorry for jumping to conclusions. Even so, not exactly language conducive to a discussion.

jdarc · Apr 6, 2011