Would this be considered cooperating with evil?

  • Thread starter Thread starter dilleachta
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

dilleachta

Guest
If you are in a serious relationship (discerning marriage) and your boyfriend/girlfriend tells you that he/she is planning to do an immoral activity (such as visiting a strip club)- would you be cooperating with evil by remaining in the relationship and allowing it to take place?

I am mostly curious because this seems to be a case of infidelity- “Whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:28). So, along that line of reasoning, if you were to accept their act of infidelity by remaining in the relationship with the awareness of their willful sin against you, would you not be culpable for their act of evil as well on some level?
 
Allowing it to take place?

You mean saying - hey go ahead?

Ya that would be approving such.

But if one said - hey do not do that - the fact that one remains in the relationship is not approving per se of that evil act (it can be not the thing to do -and a serious reason to reconsider that relationship).
 
Catechism:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
  • by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
  • by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
  • by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
  • by protecting evil-doers.
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#V
 
dilleachta said:
If you are in a serious relationship (discerning marriage) and your boyfriend/girlfriend tells you that he/she is planning to do an immoral activity (such as visiting a strip club)- would you be cooperating with evil by remaining in the relationship and allowing it to take place?

I am mostly curious because this seems to be a case of infidelity- “Whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:28). So, along that line of reasoning, if you were to accept their act of infidelity by remaining in the relationship with the awareness of their willful sin against you, would you not be culpable for their act of evil as well on some level?
Click to expand...
This sounds more like disloyalty than infidelity. One does not have control over another’s actions, but I would SERIOUSLY discern marriage to someone who thinks it’s ok to visit strip clubs. Ask to see what’s on their computer; I’ll bet it’s full of porn.
 
dilleachta said:
your boyfriend/girlfriend tells you that he/she is planning to do an immoral activity (such as visiting a strip club)- would you be cooperating with evil by remaining in the relationship and allowing it to take place?
Click to expand...
I would submit to you that if your boyfriend or girlfriend is old enough to gain entrance into such an establishment you cannot stop them. The idea that you are “allowing them” to do so is misplaced. If you tell them it is OK with you, then that is something different. If you tell them not to do it and they do it anyway, you bear no responsibility,

However their desire to go or actual attendance at such an establishment is a good indicator that it’s time to move on. They are not marriage material.
 
Thank you all very much for your responses, this helps a lot. It’s more of a hypothetical situation, but one that may arise at some point. In discussing various things involving fidelity in relationships my boyfriend commented that he doesn’t go to strip clubs nor does he like them, however the only time he would make an exception was if one of his brothers or friends was getting married and chose that as their “bachelor party activity”. I basically said that if and when that situation arises, if he chooses to compromise his morals for something like that we would be separating. It’s kind of on the back burner since it hasn’t actually happened but it brought up some concerns in me.
 
dilleachta said:
I basically said that if and when that situation arises, if he chooses to compromise his morals for something like that we would be separating.
Click to expand...
I think that’s a little bit drastic, and not particularly fair to him. Not that I condone strip clubs, but I don’t like ultimatums. I think once a person delivers ultimatums it’s a bad sign. If his friends go and he doesn’t because of your threat to separate, then you are the one who kept him from going. For better or for worse, he’s likely to remember how you tried to control him without letting him make his own decisions. Just my two ¢.
 
on_the_hill said:
I think that’s a little bit drastic, and not particularly fair to him. Not that I condone strip clubs, but I don’t like ultimatums. I think once a person delivers ultimatums it’s a bad sign. If his friends go and he doesn’t because of your threat to separate, then you are the one who kept him from going. For better or for worse, he’s likely to remember how you tried to control him without letting him make his own decisions. Just my two ¢.
Click to expand...
Yes, I do see your point and I suppose it will eventually boil down to our (my boyfriend and I) priorities. Whether asked to or not, I would choose to avoid something I knew was not only sinful but harmful to the relationship with the one I love. I admire his values and integrity and hope that he does not choose to compromise his morality because his friends do not share his religious beliefs.

It reminds me of the old saying, “If all the other kids jumped off a bridge would you too?”. A marriage requires moral consistency, I believe, especially in the face of peer pressure. You raise a good point though. If this is even an issue that requires the concept of an “ultimatum”, perhaps the answer is in the question.
 
I think it’s a good reaction for you to be unsettled with his view that there can be exceptions for when he can go to a strip club. That’s your conscience tugging at you, and it could be a flag for some future conflicts. If he truly doesn’t like strip clubs, why would he be open to going…under any circumstances?

At the same time, separating because of one sin seems to me to be drastic and comes off as a threat. You don’t want to scare him into not doing it, you want him to understand why to not do it.

Did he sway his thinking when you said you didn’t agree with it, no matter the circumstances?

Also, maybe you could suggest him getting involved with some people in the church community around him, making some friends that do share his values? Just a thought
 
Ask him: Do you know how much they let women touch in a male strip club?

Then ask: So strip clubs are going to be okay for me too?

Lol that is good secular logic…

If he is mildy attractive, a strip club is no good. Strippers like to touch in real life, the “no touching” thing is not true.
It is basically a no go, I do strip clubs, but never in a relationship! It is no no no good.

On the flip side if he is old ugly and broke… err they might not touch.

Oh and even if the guy is behaving, strippers will rape you… seriously even if you say no.
 
dangerousdyls said:
I think it’s a good reaction for you to be unsettled with his view that there can be exceptions for when he can go to a strip club. That’s your conscience tugging at you, and it could be a flag for some future conflicts. If he truly doesn’t like strip clubs, why would he be open to going…under any circumstances?

At the same time, separating because of one sin seems to me to be drastic and comes off as a threat. You don’t want to scare him into not doing it, you want him to understand why to not do it.

Did he sway his thinking when you said you didn’t agree with it, no matter the circumstances?

Also, maybe you could suggest him getting involved with some people in the church community around him, making some friends that do share his values? Just a thought
Click to expand...
I agree. We actually talked about it again yesterday. He said he does agree that it’s sinful to go and he never wants to go to one of those places again “but” if his brother ever gets married and he is the best man and going to a strip club is how his brother wants to “celebrate”, what is he supposed to do? I told him it will ultimately be his decision. I don’t want to force him not to go because it would be pointless- it’s not about me controlling him, it’s about his agreement with the sin.

I offered this parallel hypothetical situation: If my sister is getting married and I’m her maid of honor and she wants to do cocaine for her “last act of freedom” it doesn’t matter that she is my sister or that I’m the maid of honor. It’s objectively sinful regardless of the circumstances. He did admit it was a good argument and I think it got the wheels turning in his head. My perception of why the situation is wrong seems very obvious to me but I guess he didn’t see it until I explained it like that.

P.S. As far as getting involved with people in the church, unfortunately, he does not have a church community. He identifies as a non-denominational Christian. As a Catholic, I of course see the flaws in his ideology but…baby steps.
 
I would simply pose him this question: To whom is his loyalty? Is it to his brother? or is to God?

In light of this, Galatians 1:10 came to mind:
Am I now seeking human approval, or God’s approval? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still pleasing people, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Click to expand...
God bless
 
Josie33 said:
I would simply pose him this question: To whom is his loyalty? Is it to his brother? or is to God?

In light of this, Galatians 1:10 came to mind:

God bless
Click to expand...
Great point and passage!! Thank you 🙂
 
Your boyfriend’s story kind of reminded me of my own bachelor party.
I had discussed with my wife that I would never step into a strip club and I also told her that I didn’t agree that she would go to a strip club or attend a bachelorette party where there would be strippers (she had attended one before we met).
One week before our wedding my best man (an honorable Christian man) prepared a surprise bachelor party and he invited a few of my colleagues at work (they are very secular but know I am Christian).
It was 3PM and I was still unaware of everything but I hear gossip about a party later that evening from a couple of my colleagues. They start to ask me if I would ever go to a strip club, to which I obviously answer “No way”. They invite me to join them. I say: “I don’t want to”. They insist. I decline again. After a few more insisting they tell me I’ll have no choice but to join them. I ask “why is that so”? They tell me cause it’s my own bachelor party.
I gulp…
I say they cannot be right. My best man is an honorable Christian man…
They start making jokes about what they will make me do when I am there… and I start having cold sweats…
How could this be happening to me? Did my friend really do this?
I tell them that they are wrong. They tell me not to worry, that I just have to go along for the ride, and stuff like that.
I send a text to my friend, he says he is busy and that he will talk to me at the party, to just follow my friends.
I am in panic modus here.
I don’t know what to do, so I text my wife. She says that she is having great fun with her friends and hopes that I also have fun at the party.
I ring my friend several times until he finally takes my call.
I ask him what is going on. He tells me he is already at the location and everything is ready for me. I ask him if it is true that the party is in a strip club, he says he cannot say.
I press him on it and he finally caves and says yes.
My stomach drops… and I drop the call.
My colleagues keep making jokes around me. (We’re all in our twenties)
At 6PM we all leave the office and they tell me the address and ask me to follow them.
By now my mind is so blown that I just follow my colleagues, still thinking to myself, how can this be happening?
I just say, “I am going with you guys just to clarify this hole mess, I am not stepping into that place.”
In the middle of the way I call my wife and tell her that this friend (she knows him) has planned a bachelor party in a strip club.
She laughs and tells me: “Wow, and what do you think about that?”
I tell her that I am just going to the door to tell him that I can’t come in, but that I won’t go inside.
She says “If you really want to, you can go”.
I tell her, “Not even if they pay me.”
…
As we walk to this place I pray inside of me for God to give me strength to be able to do the right thing.
…
As we come closer to the address my friends keep asking me what kind of things I would be able to do or not do, and I keep explaining that I’m not coming in.
…
As we go closer and closer to the place I find it odd that we go into a touristic area (this is Berlin, so there are open immodest areas, but this particular street I was not aware had any such establishments).
As we are 100 feet from the address I see a blue banner saying:
“Ach Niko!! Ach Niko!!!”
…
…
It’s a Greek Restaurant…

P.S.: To stay on topic, although my wife said that if I really want to go I can go in, she wasn’t really sinning because she knew it wasn’t a strip club.

God bless,
D.
 
dskysmine said:
P.S.: To stay on topic, although my wife said that if I really want to go I can go in, she wasn’t really sinning because she knew it wasn’t a strip club.

D.
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing your story! If I were in your shoes I think I might have been a little mad at my friends for playing that prank on me, but I’m glad they were just kidding. Both my boyfriend and I have made mistakes in our past prior to finding God but are trying to help each other follow Christ. Congratulations on your marriage by the way!
 
dilleachta said:
I agree. We actually talked about it again yesterday. He said he does agree that it’s sinful to go and he never wants to go to one of those places again “but” if his brother ever gets married and he is the best man and going to a strip club is how his brother wants to “celebrate”, what is he supposed to do?
Click to expand...
Tell him he supposed to find a spine, emulate Christ, and try and help lead the people he loves away from sin, not helping them rush toward it whilst stuffing their pockets with singles.

It is great that he doesn’t approve himself, but he needs to man up and be a man for Christ, and for you. Not their image of a man for them.

A college buddy of mine was in my friend’s wedding, as was I, and he suggested going to a strip club during the bachelor party (basically, just dinner and beer). The groom’s brother and myself told him (the only married guy among us) to grow up and stop acting like a child. Guy’s can get away saying things like that and no one gets offended. They may still go, but he will have let them know where he stands.
 
dilleachta said:
I agree. We actually talked about it again yesterday. He said he does agree that it’s sinful to go and he never wants to go to one of those places again “but” if his brother ever gets married and he is the best man and going to a strip club is how his brother wants to “celebrate”, what is he supposed to do? I told him it will ultimately be his decision. I don’t want to force him not to go because it would be pointless- it’s not about me controlling him, it’s about his agreement with the sin.

I offered this parallel hypothetical situation: If my sister is getting married and I’m her maid of honor and she wants to do cocaine for her “last act of freedom” it doesn’t matter that she is my sister or that I’m the maid of honor. It’s objectively sinful regardless of the circumstances. He did admit it was a good argument and I think it got the wheels turning in his head. My perception of why the situation is wrong seems very obvious to me but I guess he didn’t see it until I explained it like that.

P.S. As far as getting involved with people in the church, unfortunately, he does not have a church community. He identifies as a non-denominational Christian. As a Catholic, I of course see the flaws in his ideology but…baby steps.
Click to expand...
Great analogy. IF his brother wants to go hire prostitutes would he have a problem with that? Your boyfriend needs some moral strength, but I get why he’s wishy washy. When I was non denominational, I maybe would have felt the same way. Keep talking patiently and praying for him.

I must say though, a man of any stripe, who thinks strip clubs are just some fun, may not be marriage material. Strip clubs objectify women, and are right there with pornography as decimators of marriages.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top