Would this be considered of grave matter?

[ChibiViolet]

This post seems to have been deleted before so I hope I wasn’t asking about a banned subject matter…If my post was really not deliberately deleted by a staff, this is the post I choose to keep here (so I can have tags.)

Anyway, would it be considered suicide for a sick person to not go to a doctor to be diagnosed because they wish to die (let’s say, to be with God and not sin anymore.) What if this person were young? Would it be of grave matter against agianst the Fifth Commandment for them if they were a legal adult, although their parents are still their legal guardians?

 

[Ben_F]

Wanting to be with God and not sin anymore ,is righteous. Refusing to pick up your cross and carry it, is unrighteous. If a person sincerely believes something is not grave matter, after exhausting all efforts in his or her discernment, then it´s not grave matter. Some things though are so evident, that it doesn´t need discernment. Suicide, or not wanting to live and serve God, to me, is very evident that it is grave matter. If a person doesn´t see this, then I believe he is insane. You can´t repent for suicide. It behooves one to seriously consider this in his or her prayers. God bless:thumbsup:

 

[anruari]

The church has detailed guidance on this.
I’ll try to summarise it for you:

Human life is a sacred, god given gift, form the moment of Conception, until the moment of natural death.

It must be nurtured and protected within and to the full extent of those boundaries.

Medical Intervention where is is available and normal, and does not violate other specific moral requirements is a tool that should be used to nurture and protect life.

However medical aid can be legitimately refused in a number of situations:

1. violation of conscience: a treatment is immoral or you believe it to be (e.g. organs “donated” in a manner that killed or hastened the death of the donor. Organs taken without the permission of the donor, Treatments from embryonic stem cells.)
2. Treatment creates an abnormal burden. Unnaturally extending the life of a person where there is no hope of recovery, and thereby increasing their significant and unavoidable suffering. Treatments which are so expensive that the persons entire family or community would suffer as a result of sacrificing the necessary cost.

The definition of “Normal Burden” vs “Abnormal Burden” is a complicated one which considers a range of moral issues.

The Church has given guidance on thisn in
Gaudium et Spes
DECLARATION ON EUTHANASIA
and
The Catechism

Here’s what the Catechism says:

From the Catechism:

2278 Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproportionate to the expected outcome can be legitimate; it is the refusal of “over-zealous” treatment. Here one does not will to cause death; one’s inability to impede it is merely accepted. The decisions should be made by the patient if he is competent and able or, if not, by those legally entitled to act for the patient, whose reasonable will and legitimate interests must always be respected.
2279 Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged.

Note that a paragraph 2278 is worded in the disjunctive, ie with an “or”, not an “and”. Therefore, such treatment can be legitimately refused is it is merely “burdensome”. It needn’t be dangerous and extraordinary and disproprotiaonate to the outcome also.
Any one of the factors is arguably sufficient to justify a refusal of treatment.

 

[ChibiViolet]

Wanting to be with God and not sin anymore ,is righteous. Refusing to pick up your cross and carry it, is unrighteous. If a person sincerely believes something is not grave matter, after exhausting all efforts in his or her discernment, then it´s not grave matter. Some things though are so evident, that it doesn´t need discernment. Suicide, or not wanting to live and serve God, to me, is very evident that it is grave matter. If a person doesn´t see this, then I believe he is insane. You can´t repent for suicide. It behooves one to seriously consider this in his or her prayers. God bless:thumbsup:

Well, I don’t know if this would even be considered suicide. I clearly specified that.

 

[anruari]

Well, I don’t know if this would even be considered suicide. I clearly specified that.

It depends on the nature of the “Burden” created by the medical intervention needed to save taht persons life.

In terms of going to the doctor: This is basically a must, but does not mandate that the person then accept any and all treatment suggested by the doctor.

It is good to get the diagnosis first then make the decisions after.

If the diagnosis is that there is a life threatening illness then accepting or rejecting treatment for that illness needs to be assessed on whether or not the burden of receiving that treatment is “Normal” or “Extraordinary”

The decision should be made in consultation with a priest who has chaplaincy responsibilities for a hospital or hospice. they have experience in assisting with this decision.

To deliberately reject medical assistance (or not seek it when it would be available) when you know, believe or suspect that available treatments would be life-saving and not be an extraordinary burden, is a sin against the 5th commandment.

 

[ChibiViolet]

It depends on the nature of the “Burden” created by the medical intervention needed to save taht persons life.

In terms of going to the doctor: This is basically a must, but does not mandate that the person then accept any and all treatment suggested by the doctor.

It is good to get the diagnosis first then make the decisions after.

If the diagnosis is that there is a life threatening illness then accepting or rejecting treatment for that illness needs to be assessed on whether or not the burden of receiving that treatment is “Normal” or “Extraordinary”

The decision should be made in consultation with a priest who has chaplaincy responsibilities for a hospital or hospice. they have experience in assisting with this decision.

To deliberately reject medical assistance (or not seek it when it would be available) when you know, believe or suspect that available treatments would be life-saving and not be an extraordinary burden, is a sin against the 5th commandment.

Thank you.

You mean the 6th Commandment I hope (the 5th is “honour thy father and thy mother.”)

 

[The_Blunt_Brig]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church which Pope John Paul II called “a sure norm for teaching the faith” has a part of suicide too:

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

…

2324 Intentional euthanasia, whatever its forms or motives, is murder. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator.

2325 Suicide is seriously contrary to justice, hope, and charity. It is forbidden by the fifth commandment.