D
dans0622
Guest
Hi Lightbee,
The “annulment” process can be a long and difficult one but, if the people at the tribunal know what they are doing, there really is nothing to be afraid of. God bless.
Dan
- Status
The “annulment” process can be a long and difficult one but, if the people at the tribunal know what they are doing, there really is nothing to be afraid of. God bless.
Dan
J
joandarc2008
Guest
Lightbee- Judging from how well you and your dh are handling some harsh, unfounded criticism while still staying with Church and accepting chastity - I personally think you have a strong shot at Sacramental marriage as you seem to understand exactly what it is about. Pray to the Lord and use the Holy Family as your model to help you get through this.
I think I was married to you 10 years ago. And you know what my xh never changed - I did. He still harasses and stalks all my old friends asking where I am even though he is now in a Catholic marriage with a child. The only reason I know that is I had to do research to get his baptismal certificate to get my lack of form and found out he had paid to get a lack of form which I never received benefit of. But that is the way it goes with abusers.
T
tbcrawford
Guest
D
Dorothy
Guest
That is commendable! God bless you both and strengthen and guide you on your journey.
J
joandarc2008
Guest
prodigalson12;6485640:
I often tell people that this is the most misquoted verse in the whole Bible. Thank you for showing how it can be used correctly.
M
Musician
Guest
Prodigal, your comments are most inappropriate and incendiary. I suspect a troll at work. But that is neither here nor there.
To LightBee - blessings on you, dear, for taking this seriously. Our process was about a year from start to finish. It was very healing for my DH to go through. Abstinence is hard but definitely doable and definitely worth it.
To LightBee - blessings on you, dear, for taking this seriously. Our process was about a year from start to finish. It was very healing for my DH to go through. Abstinence is hard but definitely doable and definitely worth it.
P
prodigalson12
Guest
I’m talking more specifically to her situation, rather then her as an individual, for this story is nothing new at all. Women these days often go into marriages way too lightly, the divorce rates these days are largely initiated by them. They also end up in abusive relationships, one after the other, after the other, do you think there is a common theme here, or just bad luck? I doubt the latter, the same is true with people that always tend to get in car accidents, surely they are not at fault “technically”, but if you observe their driving habits, there is a good reason they continue to do so, it again is not based upon bad luck.
Now, if the woman herself is abusive, it doesn’t necessarily mean she is hitting, but it’s the same difference, men are wired to handle a situation using brute force, not all men have the discernment and self control to not play into their games, so some of them do lash out physically, and in that case, it’s necessary for a physical seperation, extensive counseling and therapy, and this is not an easy process, but still, it’s giving the marriage a chance to survive, for you are fighting for it tooth and nail, not just writing it off during the times it’s in deep trouble. OP already stated, it wasn’t much of a marriage to begin with, already wrote it off in her head from day one, and what was worse, bringing kids into it.
Looking back to the pre 60’s era, how come they managed to stay together, was it typical for a married couple to be miserable, just staying together for it’s own sakes alone? Not at all, what has changed, we don’t fight for our marriages nearly as much, it’s considered not PC to actually work things out, to build upon it, it’s the norm simply to write it off and start over. The problem is, rarely does starting over produce a better situation, you still have to face your own shortcomings, you still have to deal with even more struggles, and if you didn’t have what it took for the first one, what is it in the second will guarantee it’s going to work this time?
So, I receive flack over stating the truth, so be it, but at least the truth is out there, I’m not candy coating my words, even Christ himself when asked about divorce, first said not to do it, then when they pressed him, he stated that the Jews were Hardened of heart, so under certain circumstances, divorce was allowed, this is telling you, that if you are hardened of heart, and you must, and you found no way out, and you cannot face up to the fact, you are in a covenant, one between the couple and God himself, then there are technicalities to attain a valid divorce. Even after-wards, it’s still better to remain unmarried regardless, and here we are, talking about the second marriage with almost nothing said at all about the first one…
You can post what ever you want, twisting the gospel because you don’t want to hear the truth, it won’t phase me, it’s a common ploy to use when faced with the truth that doesn’t quite sit well with the masses, but the truth is the truth is the truth…
Now, if the woman herself is abusive, it doesn’t necessarily mean she is hitting, but it’s the same difference, men are wired to handle a situation using brute force, not all men have the discernment and self control to not play into their games, so some of them do lash out physically, and in that case, it’s necessary for a physical seperation, extensive counseling and therapy, and this is not an easy process, but still, it’s giving the marriage a chance to survive, for you are fighting for it tooth and nail, not just writing it off during the times it’s in deep trouble. OP already stated, it wasn’t much of a marriage to begin with, already wrote it off in her head from day one, and what was worse, bringing kids into it.
Looking back to the pre 60’s era, how come they managed to stay together, was it typical for a married couple to be miserable, just staying together for it’s own sakes alone? Not at all, what has changed, we don’t fight for our marriages nearly as much, it’s considered not PC to actually work things out, to build upon it, it’s the norm simply to write it off and start over. The problem is, rarely does starting over produce a better situation, you still have to face your own shortcomings, you still have to deal with even more struggles, and if you didn’t have what it took for the first one, what is it in the second will guarantee it’s going to work this time?
So, I receive flack over stating the truth, so be it, but at least the truth is out there, I’m not candy coating my words, even Christ himself when asked about divorce, first said not to do it, then when they pressed him, he stated that the Jews were Hardened of heart, so under certain circumstances, divorce was allowed, this is telling you, that if you are hardened of heart, and you must, and you found no way out, and you cannot face up to the fact, you are in a covenant, one between the couple and God himself, then there are technicalities to attain a valid divorce. Even after-wards, it’s still better to remain unmarried regardless, and here we are, talking about the second marriage with almost nothing said at all about the first one…
You can post what ever you want, twisting the gospel because you don’t want to hear the truth, it won’t phase me, it’s a common ploy to use when faced with the truth that doesn’t quite sit well with the masses, but the truth is the truth is the truth…
T
tbcrawford
Guest
Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. Romans 2:1
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.John 8:7
The only personal quality of Jesus which He urged on His followers is meekness, humility. “Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” (Mt. 11:29) The Greek word for “gentle” is praus, which means “meek,” “gentle,” “kind.” The word for “lowly” is tapeinos, “humble,” “lowly,” "modest."I daresay none of us knows enough about humility, and none of us consistently exemplifies the virtue of humility. So let’s start with the opposite of humility. Let’s start with something we all know a lot about; something most of us too frequently exemplify—I speak now of pride.
Whether what you say is truth or not is irrelevant.The exact details of the OP’s previous marriage difficulties ar none of our business accusing the OP of and I quote “she is actually the cause” of her marriage breakdown is both uncharitable and rude.
QUOTE from Prodigalson
[Most women that end up in an abusive relationship are actually the cause, either through enabling it, or their own personalities push any normal person into reacting negatively, “bipolar types are masters at this one”, what is it that you did which you could have done differently to achieve a different result?]
We as catholics are humble loving forgiving caring loyal desciples of The Lord.Let us welcome those into the Church who need our help not judgement.That is for the Tribunal to decide.
God bless
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.John 8:7
The only personal quality of Jesus which He urged on His followers is meekness, humility. “Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” (Mt. 11:29) The Greek word for “gentle” is praus, which means “meek,” “gentle,” “kind.” The word for “lowly” is tapeinos, “humble,” “lowly,” "modest."I daresay none of us knows enough about humility, and none of us consistently exemplifies the virtue of humility. So let’s start with the opposite of humility. Let’s start with something we all know a lot about; something most of us too frequently exemplify—I speak now of pride.
Whether what you say is truth or not is irrelevant.The exact details of the OP’s previous marriage difficulties ar none of our business accusing the OP of and I quote “she is actually the cause” of her marriage breakdown is both uncharitable and rude.
QUOTE from Prodigalson
[Most women that end up in an abusive relationship are actually the cause, either through enabling it, or their own personalities push any normal person into reacting negatively, “bipolar types are masters at this one”, what is it that you did which you could have done differently to achieve a different result?]
We as catholics are humble loving forgiving caring loyal desciples of The Lord.Let us welcome those into the Church who need our help not judgement.That is for the Tribunal to decide.
God bless
L
LaLucia
Guest
LightBee, My advise to you is to get the annulment questionaire from the Tribunal Office and start answering the questions. It will give you more information to see if you qualify under a Canon Law… that is what the Tribunal lawyers do when they read the questionaire and other questions they will ask you. You most likely fit under some canon Law.
If you can afford it… get a canon lawyer to help you with your annulment. Those lawyers will be able to tell you if you do qualify for an annulment.
You need to look back at your previous marriage, childhood time with your parents, and your life with your ex-spouse. You will be surprised to start remembering all the things that were wrong before you even got married. You will start to see the signs clearly that were there but you may have not wanted to see.
I have already done all of my annulment paper work and am waiting to hear from my Tribunal Office. I am still waiting since Jan. 2009. It is now April 2010. But I am from a large city that covers many communities. I just have to wait.
I didn’t hire a canon lawyer because I didn’t know about them being around to help me. So I did my own canon law research and was able to find several canon laws that fit my case.
If you can afford it… get a canon lawyer to help you with your annulment. Those lawyers will be able to tell you if you do qualify for an annulment.
You need to look back at your previous marriage, childhood time with your parents, and your life with your ex-spouse. You will be surprised to start remembering all the things that were wrong before you even got married. You will start to see the signs clearly that were there but you may have not wanted to see.
I have already done all of my annulment paper work and am waiting to hear from my Tribunal Office. I am still waiting since Jan. 2009. It is now April 2010. But I am from a large city that covers many communities. I just have to wait.
I didn’t hire a canon lawyer because I didn’t know about them being around to help me. So I did my own canon law research and was able to find several canon laws that fit my case.
C
choy
Guest
sorry, not trying to sound like a bad guy here, but have you heard of a one night stand? no love, no relationship, no marriage, just sex (and usually drunkeness), sometimes even no names. it sometimes results in children
so don’t judge and say that just because they had children automatically means the marriage got off the ground
D
Dorothy
Guest
That is true. In fact even more children than two may have been born, and many years later a severe psychological reason (present from the time of the marriage, but not noticed fully for what it was then) can become aggravated and make it impossible for the couple to live together any longer.
Obviously “prodigal son” is not fully aware of all of the valid reasons for a decree of nullity to be given.
G
GentleKnight60
Guest
Hi Lightbee. The annulment process is an examination of conscience, not of judgement. For example if you left an abusive relationship you should have no problem, but say if you divorced a hard working man just because you started an emotional attachment with your current husband then i would say you have a problem. The annulment process is nothing more then filling out some forms and a questionaire that both you and your ex will have to sign. Yup, you might have to provide some documentation to verify your case, say from a doctor or statements from close friends or relatives. Probably the biggest obstacle will be getting your ex to fill out the questionaire and sending it in. Process takes several months to maybe over a year if there are issues involved or the volume of annulments that has to be processed. But do it, pray over it, and I’m sure God will make the annulment process painless and simple. Even if your ex does not fill in his paperwork the church may still approve the annulment, speak to your priest or your parishes marriage counselor. Whether or not you and your current husband have to get remarried in the Catholic church…do it! I’m sure you will find that everything about the Catholic church is a blessing. From the sign of the cross across our breasts, receiving communion, and going to frequent confession, etc. you will feel God’s presence in and around you!
C
cctabb
Guest
Seems like that is a marriage without proper form which is not a valid marriage to begin with and does not need an annulment. Your priest should have a form that can be filled out and sent to the diocese. Within a month or so you should be all set to have your current marriage convalidated if/when you decide to join the Catholic church. and receive first communion and confirmation.
C
cctabb
Guest
What! OMG! That is sick! This is the kind of **** abusers spout to justify their evil behavior.
J
joandarc2008
Guest
Are you saying the woman is the only one responsible for making a marriage valid? Last time I heard it took two to tango and three to get married.
L
Liberanosamalo
Guest
Don’t give trolls the time of day. Seriously.
J
joandarc2008
Guest
You are right - I just wasn’t sure if you were being so silent b/c he was your xh. Love ya libero. When is the book coming out?
1
1ke
Guest
Canonical form applies only to Catholics and those marrying Catholics. Neither Lightbee nor her ex-husband were Catholics when they married.
Non-Catholics marry validly when they marry civilly or with a non-Catholic minister. Lightbee will need a full tribunal investigation of validity.
L
Liberanosamalo
Guest
hahaha. That might be the only time I laugh today. Thanks.
Afraid to write a book. He’d recognize himself and sue. (No, I’m not joking.)
N
newbetx
Guest
A reminder to CAF members. Posters are not required to provide expert advice nor are they required to provide Catholic solutions. But they are required to be charitable. If anyone believes a poster to be uncharitable, then they should report that poster.
Please allow me to do the same. It’s not important for us to hear your opinion of abusive marriages. It does not help the situation. If a woman feels something and expresses it, it’s not important to the discussion to attack those feelings. You either did a poor job of presenting your point or as others here point out, you are off base.
This thread will be closed if some continue to be uncharitable. Even if what you say is true, saying it with charity is expected.
We at CAF have to be sensitive to those that visit us. The idea that being anonymous entitles us to be uncharitable or post in a manner that is preachy, judgmental and self-righteous is not beneficial to the medium nor the recipient.
As for this. Do not do this for “anyone here that’s worried.” While it is your choice, this may not be necessary nor good for your relationship. You should talk to a priest prior to taking this drastic action. This change in relationship can impact your family. A priest can properly guide you. What he tells you may not be as easy to follow.
Certainly, the advice you are given is correct from what I can tell. Your first marriage is valid until determined otherwise. According to church records, your husband is married to you. Before you can join the church your previous marriage will need to be annulled if it was not done prior to your current marriage. There is lots to clean up here. It will be worth it in the end to know what it takes to be practicing Catholics.
- Status