Would this be wrong?

[Eleve]

yeah,that’s kinda what i was thinking… and if i were homeless i would certainly not mind hearing the Word of God in exchange for a warm place to live…

it wouldn’t be like the Muslims who might kill you if you don’t convert…

Christ calls us to a higher standard than “not killing people.” Here is what he does say:

“For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. … I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.”

Anyway, how much better is it to refuse to feed the starving than it is to kill them?

 

[McQ]

I had a second or third cousin who worked in a Baptist mission in Brazil. They were
located far out in the rain forest. I was about 13 when I met her. She told me how great
it was to see the hungry and sick Indians come out of the jungle wanting help. I asked
if they gave them food and clothes. Her answer floored me - she said they gave them
help only if they joined the Baptist church, if not, they received nothing. She invited me
to come with her and I told no. I felt their way of doing things was wrong. If the Indians
needed help - give it to them. Talk to them about religion later. I would imagine they
would be much more interested in listening when they were warm and full.

 

[TheQuestioner]

That is horrible. Its ok to provide Church services to those homeless who are willing to join but it is wrong to NOT feed them if they do not join. That is just simply wrong. Christ helped everyone regardless. Many atheist use this kind of thing against Christians and the legitimacy of our religion because even they recognize there is something intrisically wrong with this kind of behavior.

 

[PatThompson]

Many atheist use this kind of thing against Christians and the legitimacy of our religion because even they recognize there is something intrisically wrong with this kind of behavior.

Wow, have you read the rest of this thread? Where is there even one example of a non-religious group denying help to someone that presents themselves as a religious person?! No doubt individuals have discriminated against other individuals, and I know all too well the past history against religious groups, but can you find a modern, European/American example?

 

[Finrock]

yes, but everyone knows about God and many “like” Him… even claim to love Him… Not many know His Word (His Son, Jesus, who is the Word incarnate)… Jesus said tht those who do the will of the Father are the ones who get to heaven, not those who just believe… “Even the demons believe and tremble”… How can pepole know God’s will when they don’t know his Word???

I suffered imeasurably from not knowing the Catholic religion…

so i know the dangers of not knowing it (and HOW)
of course, you cna’t practice Christianity if you don’t know it… (except accidentally which many do… but no one practices it perfectly or even remotely so without knowing / adhering to the Word…)

Thanks for reading and responding to my post. I understand fully what you are saying. I completely agree with you that it is important that people hear God’s word. Hearing God’s word is what leads to faith.

I’m LDS and I served two years as a missionary for my church in Finland. It was a proselytizing mission, so I had many opportunities to teach from the scriptures. One thing I learned pretty quickly is that the saying, “People don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care” is very true. Genuine, sincere, selfless and no-strings-attached service very often opens people’s hearts to hearing God’s word.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[MelanieAnne]

i know of a shelter that will only let people stay there if they attend church services… (Baptist???). There was some spiritual readings and then a sermon… don’t know if the person running the place was a regular pastor or not? sometimes there were guest speakers. The only way a tenant could get out of this church serv was if s/he had a job or dr. appt or something like that…

I think it would be good if the Catholic Church had shelters like this… where a person would be helped if he agreed to attend daily Mass… i think it would be a good way to spread the faith…

What do you think?

(it seems a little like coercion but … )

Forced faith is not faith, it is slavery. Our God wants us to come to Him with a willing heart, not by force. Force is a tool of Satan.

 

[TheQuestioner]

Wow, have you read the rest of this thread? Where is there even one example of a non-religious group denying help to someone that presents themselves as a religious person?! No doubt individuals have discriminated against other individuals, and I know all too well the past history against religious groups, but can you find a modern, European/American example?

What are you getting at? I didn’t say that Atheists do this sort of thing, I said that Atheists complain about this sort of thing and us it as an example of Christians forcing their doctrine on others, which is not far from the truth when talking about these kind of shelters.

 

[phoenix3212]

If they force people to go to Church Services, it’s not charity at all. It’s advertising.

 

[PatThompson]

What are you getting at?

A valid question! I re-read the thread, and have to agree that it took me a moment to remember just what I was trying to get at…

I took exception to the single word “even” in front of Atheists when you said “even [Atheists] recognize there is something intrisically wrong with this kind of behavior.”

My point was that this story is about a subset of Religious people who supported the idea that “charity” should be used, not to help the hungry, but to impose a religion on them. (And I will add here that I realize you are against that idea.)

But your suggestion that Atheists might even, somehow, understand this, based on some unspoken reason why they might NOT be able to understand it, seemed a double blow, when they’re in no way part of the problem here.

 

[Agabriel]

distracted, you certainly put out some interesting questions that make one think!

I don’t think it is wrong, but it is in that area of ‘grey’.

He is helping others, but he is not following the true meaning, or spirit, of Jesus.

Did Jesus put conditions on Him calling the children to Him? And He never said that they must believe that He was God, or anything like that. I am sure there were Roman children, some may have been illigitimate, among them (keep in mind that with Roman soldiers come Roman children - if you think they practiced abstinance then you haven’t studied history! Even Julius Caesar was known to have an illigitimate child or two among the people he conquered - look at Caesarian (Cleopatra’s child)!) The Apostles put conditions on who they spread the Word to, in the beginning. But after it was made clear they were to go out beyond the Jews and spread the Word, they did so.

And if I were hungry and needed something I would go to the church - maybe - but be real resentful of having to do so. But, keep it to myself and probably ‘bad mouth’ whatever religion that guy was.

I am rambling. So, to summarize - I don’t think he is totally wrong, but I don’t think he is totally right either. In fact, I find him very prejudiced and that is not of the spirit of Jesus.

 

[reen12]

If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,”
but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? James 2

‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Matt. 25

---

30 years ago, I came upon some ink drawings. They were done on silk, and these drawings raditated peace and tranquility.
I wanted to know more about the artists who created these works. What did they hold to be true - that equipped them
to render such works of beauty?

If simple drawings caused the effort to find out more about these artists,
how much more do works of mercy call out - to those who receive such mercy?

Is it possible that the one ministered to might think:
‘What do they believe, that they would meet my desperate need, asking nothing in return?’
[And ‘desperate’ = ‘without hope.’]

If gospel means ‘good news,’ what better news is there, in the whole world?

The whole point of the Good Samaritan story was that it was the despised
Samaritan who came to the aid of a traveler in much need of care.

A priest happened to be going down that road, but when he saw him, he passed by
on the opposite side. Likewise a Levite came to the place,
and when he saw him, he passed by on the opposite side.

But a Samaritan traveler who came upon him was moved with compassion at the sight…

Which of these three, in your opinion, was neighbor to the robbers’ victim?"
He answered, “The one who treated him with mercy.” Jesus said to him,
“Go and do likewise.” Luke: 10

reen12

 

[TheQuestioner]

A valid question! I re-read the thread, and have to agree that it took me a moment to remember just what I was trying to get at…

I took exception to the single word “even” in front of Atheists when you said “even [Atheists] recognize there is something intrisically wrong with this kind of behavior.”

My point was that this story is about a subset of Religious people who supported the idea that “charity” should be used, not to help the hungry, but to impose a religion on them. (And I will add here that I realize you are against that idea.)

But your suggestion that Atheists might even, somehow, understand this, based on some unspoken reason why they might NOT be able to understand it, seemed a double blow, when they’re in no way part of the problem here.

ahhh i see, you make a good point. What i meant to say was that even those whose morality is not strictly defined know this is wrong.

 

[PatThompson]

TheQuestioner, got it! Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for the clarification. We’re 100% in agreement then!

 

[Louie1983]

i know of a shelter that will only let people stay there if they attend church services… (Baptist???). There was some spiritual readings and then a sermon… don’t know if the person running the place was a regular pastor or not? sometimes there were guest speakers. The only way a tenant could get out of this church serv was if s/he had a job or dr. appt or something like that…

I think it would be good if the Catholic Church had shelters like this… where a person would be helped if he agreed to attend daily Mass… i think it would be a good way to spread the faith…

What do you think?

(it seems a little like coercion but … )

Hi,

I think that it’s not right, any christian shelter should open it’s doors to everyone no matter their creed, race, sexuality etc.

Picking and choosing who can enter is a shelter is not really i thik a good reflection of the love we are supposed to have for fellow man.

What if it was a mother and her child who showed up to the shelter only to be told “no” because you don’t attend christian services etc. That’s heart breaking actually.

 

[distracted]

Christ calls us to a higher standard than “not killing people.” Here is what he does say:

“For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. … I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.”

?

yes but i don’t think Jesus would mind if we didn’t also feed people’s souls… I’m not advocating forcing peole to go to Mass or antyhing… but if it was just part of the daily routine or what have you… (??)

if i was hungry & homeless i wouldn’t mind going to a church service, even if of another faith, to get my needs met. I do not have to accept all the beliefs taught at the place…
and human nature being what it is, i don’t think we have to worry about “forcing” anything on anyone… People are more “rebelliious:” than that… they will even rebel against truth itself, it seems… to assert their freedom and independence… of belief…

 

[distracted]

Hi,

I think that it’s not right, any christian shelter should open it’s doors to everyone no matter their creed, race, sexuality etc.

Picking and choosing who can enter is a shelter is not really i thik a good reflection of the love we are supposed to have for fellow man.

What if it was a mother and her child who showed up to the shelter only to be told “no” because you don’t attend christian services etc. That’s heart breaking actually.

i didn’t say that the criteria of staying there would be they had to be Catholic… or even Christian… just that Mass would be part of the daily routine… I don’t see this as really wrong because it is like taking a class or soemthing… teaching people about Catholicism… They can take waht thye want, if anything, leave the rest… no one would be forcing them to learn… or accept or wahtever…

also, if a person didn’t want to go to Mass… well, i would wonder how needy they are…

 

[distracted]

I had a second or third cousin who worked in a Baptist mission in Brazil. They were
located far out in the rain forest. I was about 13 when I met her. She told me how great
it was to see the hungry and sick Indians come out of the jungle wanting help. I asked
if they gave them food and clothes. Her answer floored me - she said they gave them
help only if they joined the Baptist church, if not, they received nothing. She invited me
to come with her and I told no. I felt their way of doing things was wrong. If the Indians
needed help - give it to them. Talk to them about religion later. I would imagine they
would be much more interested in listening when they were warm and full.

this is deplorable… this is obvoiusly WRONG…

( and not just because they were Baptist )

i was suggesting Mass being a part of the daily routine at the shleter… NOT forcing anyone to become Catholic… I would never condone anything remotely like that…

(although some people i know may think i try to force THEM to be Catholic… but it just seems like it because i won’t shut up about how great the Church is… )

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

i know of a shelter that will only let people stay there if they attend church services… (Baptist???). There was some spiritual readings and then a sermon… don’t know if the person running the place was a regular pastor or not? sometimes there were guest speakers. The only way a tenant could get out of this church serv was if s/he had a job or dr. appt or something like that…

I think it would be good if the Catholic Church had shelters like this… where a person would be helped if he agreed to attend daily Mass… i think it would be a good way to spread the faith…

What do you think?

(it seems a little like coercion but … )

It does - which is why it is a very bad idea ​