Would this mass count for Sunday?

[tee_eff_em]

I called my Chancery Office and they told me in order for the Mass to fulfill the Sunday obligation it has to be after 4:30 on Sat. and it does HAVE to be the Sunday readings. And they have never heard of a Bishop giving permission for a funeral, wedding or any other special Mass said earlier in the day to be allowed to fulfill the Sunday obligation. The rules should be the same everywhere. I think I will follow our Bishop All ‘special’ Masses have to be said before 2 pm so they don’t interfere with the Sat. evening Sunday vigil Mass. God Bless, Memaw

It is always sad to hear when a Chancery Office (or any element of the Church) is become a fount of misinformation.

tee

 

[Vico]

I called my Chancery Office and they told me in order for the Mass to fulfill the Sunday obligation it has to be after 4:30 on Sat. and it does HAVE to be the Sunday readings. And they have never heard of a Bishop giving permission for a funeral, wedding or any other special Mass said earlier in the day to be allowed to fulfill the Sunday obligation. The rules should be the same everywhere. I think I will follow our Bishop All ‘special’ Masses have to be said before 2 pm so they don’t interfere with the Sat. evening Sunday vigil Mass. God Bless, Memaw

The priests may be required to use a particular reading, but it does not prevent the Catholic from fulfilling the obligation for Sunday on Saturday evening at any Catholic rite, per the canon law. If you go to a Byzantine Catholic Church you will have different readings than in the Roman Ritual.

 

[Memaw]

The priests may be required to use a particular reading, but it does not prevent the Catholic from fulfilling the obligation for Sunday on Saturday evening at any Catholic rite, per the canon law. If you go to a Byzantine Catholic Church you will have different readings than in the Roman Ritual.

I assumed we were talking about the Roman Ritual. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Vico]

I assumed we were talking about the Roman Ritual. God Bless, Memaw

Makes sense. Now, however you can see that particular readings are not required per the canon law, for fulfillment of the Mass obligation. So if there so happens to be a ritual Mass in the correct time period, it will be acceptable.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I called my Chancery Office and they told me in order for the Mass to fulfill the Sunday obligation it has to be after 4:30 on Sat. and it does HAVE to be the Sunday readings. And they have never heard of a Bishop giving permission for a funeral, wedding or any other special Mass said earlier in the day to be allowed to fulfill the Sunday obligation. The rules should be the same everywhere. I think I will follow our Bishop All ‘special’ Masses have to be said before 2 pm so they don’t interfere with the Sat. evening Sunday vigil Mass. God Bless, Memaw

I do not understand, frankly, why you are arguing with a canon lawyer on this point

Beyond that, let us take this apart point by point:

I called my Chancery Office and they told me…

Your chancery is competent to tell you what is applicable in your diocese. Your bishop can legislate, in so far as universal law permits, for his priests and for his laity, who are his subjects under canon law…he cannot legislate for the subjects of other diocesan bishops beyond the jurisdiction of his Particular Church that the Holy Father has entrusted to him.

And they have never heard of a Bishop giving permission for a funeral, wedding or any other special Mass said earlier in the day to be allowed to fulfill the Sunday obligation.

I trust your bishop is more informed about the decisions of his brother bishops than whoever you spoke with because what is normative for your diocese is not normative for other dioceses.

Priests in your diocese would need to comply with the directives of their bishop…but no other priests, who are in other jurisdictions, need do that.

The rules should be the same everywhere

Why do you think this? There is a distinction between particular legislation and universal law. Rules vary from diocese to diocese because each bishop is empowered by universal law to create norms and regulations for his diocese – these cannot extend, of course, beyond the boundary of the bishop’s own proper jurisdiction.

**I think I will follow our Bishop **

You have no choice but to do so. As his subject, you would have to comply with his directive as would the priests of your diocese. Priests, for example, in the Archdiocese of Cincinnati should pay no attention to the legislation of your bishop but should comply with the directives of their proper archbishop.

All ‘special’ Masses have to be said before 2 pm so they don’t interfere with the Sat. evening Sunday vigil Mass.

That may be the determination for your diocese; it is not universally so.

The following, to use an example from the United States, is from the Archdiocese of Cincinnati

catholiccincinnati.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/sunday_mass_schedule_guidelines.pdf

*2) What is the earliest time an anticipatory Mass may be scheduled?

The earliest time for an anticipatory Mass was determined to be 3:00 p.m. in the Archdiocese of Cincinnati as stated in the Clergy Bulletin, March 17, 1970.

1. May weddings after 3:00 pm on Saturday fulfill the Sunday obligation?

Canon 1248.1 states, “The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated any where in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day.” Therefore, anyone participating in any Mass from 3:00pm on a Saturday (or the day before a holy day) through 11:59 pm on a Sunday or holy day fulfills his/her obligation to attend Mass. Ritual Masses, for example, the Rite of Marriage, may be celebrated after the anticipatory Mass, except if that Saturday is a Solemnity.*
Thus the priests and laity of Cincinnati should conform themselves to these directives and not to those of your diocese.

(The last revision to these norms for the Archdiocese of Cincinnati, as I read it, was June 2013.)

 

[TheDoctor]

Today, it is a portion of the Americans who contend that the Mass must start after 4 relative to fulfilling the Sunday obligation. In fact there are two dioceses in the United States whose cathedrals have anticipated Masses at 2:30 on Saturday afternoon, so even the Americans are not in agreement with that position.

This writer speaks to what is the position in Spain, Italy, Ireland, and the United Kingdom. While we await a clarification from the appropriate dicastery of the Holy See, being European, I go with the European thought on this matter until the dubium is resolved one way or the other.

canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2014/12/08/a-question-on-mass-start-times-that-warrants-attention/

Thanks Father for the additional information. It is sad for me when I see how these threads go because it seems as if the laity is more concerned with finding fault with the clergy than with simply trying to understand.

What is the original point - do we think Jesus will send us to hell because we missed Mass because the Bishop told us we didn’t have to go and we should have known better? Is this why men give up their lives to be our Priests, to be second-guessed and critiqued by everyone with a internet connection?

Sorry for rambling. Appreciate the response. Thank you for being our Priest.

 

[dans0622]

…

*

2) What is the earliest time an anticipatory Mass may be scheduled?

The earliest time for an anticipatory Mass was determined to be 3:00 p.m. in the Archdiocese of Cincinnati as stated in the Clergy Bulletin, March 17, 1970.

…*

That’s informative. I can’t say I’ve looked hard for examples of this determination but I had not seen one before.

In those days, an “indult” was needed so that the obligation could be fulfilled on the evening before the Holy Day. The USA received the indult in January, 1970. Interestingly, the request for the indult asked that “afternoon” Masses be able to fulfill the obligation. The indult, in turn, said that “afternoon” Masses can fulfill the obligation and also said that number 28 of Eucharisticum mysterium was to be observed.

While *Eucharisticum mysterium *(from 1967) said the Saturday “anticipatory” Mass was to be celebrated “only in the evening”, the particular indult for the USA–and it’s allowance for “afternoon” Masses–would have taken precedence over E.m.'s statement that the Mass had to be in the evening.

Dan
​

​

 

[SyroMalankara]

In conclusion:
Does it fulfill the “vigil”? Yes, in this diocese only.
Should it? Not clear. Traditionally and linguistically, “vigil” implies evening/sunset/post-vesper, etc
What about if you’re unsure? Go to Mass/Divine Liturgy on Sunday and don’t worry about it.

 

[Memaw]

In conclusion:
Does it fulfill the “vigil”? Yes, in this diocese only.
Should it? Not clear. Traditionally and linguistically, “vigil” implies evening/sunset/post-vesper, etc
What about if you’re unsure? Go to Mass/Divine Liturgy on Sunday and don’t worry about it.

Right! I intend to make sure I go to a “real” Sunday Liturgy no matter what. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Chatter163]

I’m just amazed that we could actually get four pages from this topic.

 

[ThundersnowIV]

I’m just amazed that we could actually get four pages from this topic.

Exactly. Going to Mass is not just an obligation. It is a chance to joyfully worship the Lord. Would you pass up going to a baseball game on Sunday because you went to one on Saturday?

Oh…and what about the great blessing of receiving Jesus in the Eucharist? What beats that?

 

[ThundersnowIV]

I would probably to to church again on Sunday as well, but just because I want to.

Yep!

 

[Memaw]

Exactly. Going to Mass is not just an obligation. It is a chance to joyfully worship the Lord. Would you pass up going to a baseball game on Sunday because you went to one on Saturday?

Oh…and what about the great blessing of receiving Jesus in the Eucharist? What beats that?

I agree 100%. Seems the more they make it possible for Catholics to do the “easy” thing, the less they have respect for the Mass or the Holy Days or the fasting and abstinence. So now we have a slew of Cafeteria Catholics that make up their own rules and decide for themselves what they want to believe and what they don’t. I’m afraid that’s why many find it so easy to just walk away from the Catholic Faith. Many no longer believe in the TRUE presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. Almost everyone goes to Communion but the lines to Confession are very scant. We can’t all be Saints and funny how even the real Saints went to frequent Confession and loved and believed in all the Church teaches. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I agree 100%. Seems the more they make it possible for Catholics to do the “easy” thing, the less they have respect for the Mass or the Holy Days or the fasting and abstinence. So now we have a slew of Cafeteria Catholics that make up their own rules and decide for themselves what they want to believe and what they don’t. I’m afraid that’s why many find it so easy to just walk away from the Catholic Faith. Many no longer believe in the TRUE presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. Almost everyone goes to Communion but the lines to Confession are very scant. We can’t all be Saints and funny how even the real Saints went to frequent Confession and loved and believed in all the Church teaches. God Bless, Memaw

I would hazard a guess that more people leave the Church because of this attitude from fellow Catholics than anything else.

There is nothing worse than having your “Catholicity” called into question by people who want you to do things just like they do.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Exactly. Going to Mass is not just an obligation. It is a chance to joyfully worship the Lord. Would you pass up going to a baseball game on Sunday because you went to one on Saturday?

If it were a hardship for me to go to a baseball game on Sunday, and I was not otherwise obligated to attend, I would pass it up.

Oh…and what about the great blessing of receiving Jesus in the Eucharist?

We (Latin Rite Catholics) have an obligation to assist at Mass on the appointed days.
We have an obligation to receive the Eucharist only once per year.
(I’m just sayin’)

tee

 

[Memaw]

If it were a hardship for me to go to a baseball game on Sunday, and I was not otherwise obligated to attend, I would pass it up.

We (Latin Rite Catholics) have an obligation to assist at Mass on the appointed days.
We have an obligation to receive the Eucharist only once per year.
(I’m just sayin’)

tee

What a shame to deprive oneself of receiving Our Lord in Holy Communion except for only once a year, simply because it is an obligation to do so. The law was made to hopefully keep people from drifting to far away, not to say once a year is enough. As Archbishop Fulton Sheen would say, “What a waste of Grace”. God Bless, Memaw

 

[tee_eff_em]

What a shame to deprive oneself of receiving Our Lord in Holy Communion except for only once a year, simply because it is an obligation to do so. The law was made to hopefully keep people from drifting to far away, not to say once a year is enough. As Archbishop Fulton Sheen would say, “What a waste of Grace”. God Bless, Memaw

Not everyone who is obligated to assist at Mass is properly disposed to receive the Eucharist.

tee

 

[HB11]

I’m just amazed that we could actually get four pages from this topic.

And get a little heated. This was timely for me, I just told someone I didn’t think a Funeral Mass filled the Sunday Obligation. Oh boy…

 

[HB11]

:sad_yes::sad_yes

I agree 100%. Seems the more they make it possible for Catholics to do the “easy” thing, the less they have respect for the Mass or the Holy Days or the fasting and abstinence. So now we have a slew of Cafeteria Catholics that make up their own rules and decide for themselves what they want to believe and what they don’t. I’m afraid that’s why many find it so easy to just walk away from the Catholic Faith. Many no longer believe in the TRUE presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. Almost everyone goes to Communion but the lines to Confession are very scant. We can’t all be Saints and funny how even the real Saints went to frequent Confession and loved and believed in all the Church teaches. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

Not everyone who is obligated to assist at Mass is properly disposed to receive the Eucharist.

tee

I didn’t say they were!! I was just trying to explain why the Church says it is obligatory to receive Communion at least once a year. It used to be referred to as the Easter Duty. God Bless, Memaw