Would you accept a son playing with dolls?

[ToeInTheWater]

So there is a Parenting topic essentially about a girl who likes to play with cars and trains, and apparently this is not a traditionally “girly” interest, but no one has come outright and stated such an interest is inappropriate and that the parents should discourage it. Even though the topic has evolved to cover whether God made women to be wives and mothers and not have paying jobs, whether endeavors to get more girls to consider STEM fields are justified or going against their “God given nature”, etc.

That topic hasn’t really discussed the phenomenon of boys who are interested in “girly” subjects. And I myself have encountered more “tomboys” than whatever the male equivalent is. But I do know one young man who played with dolls as a kid, and is planning on becoming a nurse. AFAIK he is not gay or transgender or anything like that. His parents are fine with his career plans, indeed are very proud of him for going into a career that will give him a chance to help others.

However, since CAF is very conservative and traditional, I wondered if this would be acceptable to the CAFers here who are parents. Would you let your sons play with dolls? Or is this young man sinning in some way? Is he going against the way God designed him?

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I have 2 sons and a daughter.

The first is a boy. He had a doll named Billy when he was a toddler. Billy was a plush boy shaped toy, dressed with an orange set of overalls. He also had Chuckie from the Rugrats. He was also plush. Then his favorite dolls were Woody and Buzz lightyear. He also had Jessie. And Elmo. And I think Bert. Those are dolls.

Daughter had a number of Barbies. Then she had a couple of Monster High Dolls (gasp). She had the type you put together, to create your own custom creature. Then, she had a couple of American girl dolls, and then one very cute doll from Pottery barn.

The youngest as a drawer full of super heroes. He inherited Buzz and Woody from my oldest until they were lost in a flood. He was very sweet when on Christmas he received a replacement Woody and Buzz. “Santa brought them back from the flood!” He was almost 4. He’s also into playmobile figures

As a baby he had a German little boy plush doll, shaped like. That was lost in the flood as well.

I’m sure at some point they’ve all played make believe with each other, with Barbie having a “date” with Superman. Etc.

Also, they had a kitchen set with pots and pans that they all played with.

 

[Kit15]

Men have to learn to cook and keep house too. Those that are adamant about not doing “women’s work” are going to have a harder time finding a woman these days to do this work for them without paying for it.

I don’t have a son, but I can’t imagine a problem with him playing with dolls or becoming a nurse (from what I have heard, male nurses are very important because of their increased upper body strength) or whatever if that’s what he really wanted. I’d rather he discover that boys can do these things too instead of wishing he was born a girl instead so he could persue his interests/passion without being bothered.

I’m not advocating straight up gender neutral upbringing where we don’t even call a child he or she. It’s more like…Adam and Eve, before the fall, did not wear clothes, did not have jobs, and we don’t know too much about how they entertained themselves. And yet they were very much male and female. So my femininity and my husband’s masculinity must be deeper than our clothes, jobs, and hobbies. I would have given almost all my dolls to play baseball as a kid. My father in law does embroidery. My husband took ballet as a kid. And yet we have no difficulties with our identities. In fact, I think we’re all the more comfortable for it. I think any objections I had to a son playing with dolls would be met with some seriously confused looks.

But “playing with dolls” can take a lot of different forms. It’s not dolls but as a similar example: my friend’s son like to wear his sister’s princess costume dress around the house when he’s pretending to be a dragon. Something about the shiny fabric reminds him of scales. So why not let him pretend to be a dragon?

 

[EasterJoy]

Our twins are roughly 110% boy. When they were younger, they used their dinosaurs as action figures. They played every real-life scenario imaginable, including football games, Mass, domestic role-playing, you name it. Their dinosaurs stood in for pretty much every role imaginable, other than standing in for prehistoric animals. The boys liked adorning their dinosaurs with stick-on “jewels,” beads, artificial flowers, and scraps of “fancy” fabrics like velvet and satin. Two of their favorite colors for this were purple and dark pink. We had a play kitchen, and they enjoyed playing at cooking and serving meals, as well.

As for the young boy in question,
a) it is not forbidden by the Church for a male of any age to do female role-playing. This kind of “work of the imagination” is one of the ways we develop empathy for people who fulfill roles we do not have ourselves. The only issue comes when a person starts to become confused about what their gender is, but there is no evidence I know of that shows that gender dysphoria is caused by cross-gender role-playing rather than being expressed by it.
b) it is not forbidden by the Church for a child to pretend to be someone he or she is objectively never going to be in the literal sense. A boy who does not belong to a royal family can pretend to be a king. It is OK. He will learn some things about himself by trying that role on, even though it would be wrong in this day and age for him to grow up and try to take over a country and make himself into a monarch.
b) it is certainly not forbidden for a male to role-play being a parent by playing with dolls.

After all, if this boy grows up to be a father, would it be wrong for him to play Barbie with his daughters? No, it would not.** When Our Lord washed the feet of the Twelve at the Last Supper, that was His way of telling them, “No work in the service of others ought to be beneath you or ‘not in your job description.’”**

As for “the topic has evolved to cover whether God made women to be wives and mothers and not have paying jobs”…the either/or dichotomy buried in this “topic” makes it into a political opinion, not an article of faith. No Christian, male or female, should imagine it is OK to have our pursuit of material sustenance for our families get in the way of the emotional contributions we are supposed to be making towards their sustenance, as well. Rather, couples need to discern how to meet the emotional needs of their spouses and children while also pursuing other worthy and necessary activities such as fulfillment of religious duties, salaried work, volunteer work, art, leisure and legitimate self-care.

 

[Lea101]

I’m not a mom, but if I was one…i would not care

I would be a little concerned over why my son is preoccupied with stereotypically feminine things though. Not because it is horribly wrong, but usually children tend to pick up on stereotypes and gender norms (ie a young girl would be more willing to be a tomboy vs a boy being willing to dress up like a princess because society generally gives off the message that it is okay for a girl to be like a boy, but not for a boy to be like a girl).

Anyway, this reminds me of the whole “they’re not dolls, they are action figures!” retort.

But generally speaking, i don’t think it’s that worrying. My brothers went through a girly phase and they turned out alright. One would say that they are too manly in a bad way. Lol.

 

[randomuser]

Boys already do play with dolls. They’re called “action figures.” How are action figures not dolls?

 

[tafan]

Boys already do play with dolls. They’re called “action figures.” How are action figures not dolls?

Yea, but I think action figures and dinosaurs are not what the OP had in mind. It becomes a rather mute question if that is the case.
As for boys playing with “girl dolls”, for lack of a better term. I would have a definite problem with it. Bad idea.

) it is not forbidden by the Church for a male of any age to do female role-playing.

The church does not forbid lots of thinks that are not in the least bit wise under most circumstances. That is irrelevant to the original post. I consider it next to idiocy to allow/encourage a son to do female role playing,. Our society has truly con stark raving mad. The church does not forbid smoking, so I am going to let my kid do that?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Kids are imaginative and sometimes just weird. Who knows why they play with what they do, why they move on from toys so suddenly, or what’s going on in their heads as they play?

After Christmas one year when I was about 7, my new favorite “toy” was an enormous cardboard box and an empty wrapping paper spool. It was a boat and paddle, a fort to hide in while my dog would try to steal my spool, and a spaceship and flag pole to plant when I landed.

Needless to say, despite my childhood love of cardboard, I don’t live under a bridge as an adult.

 

[starlady88]

I have 2 sons and a daughter.

The first is a boy. He had a doll named Billy when he was a toddler. Billy was a plush boy shaped toy, dressed with an orange set of overalls. He also had Chuckie from the Rugrats. He was also plush. Then his favorite dolls were Woody and Buzz lightyear. He also had Jessie. And Elmo. And I think Bert. Those are dolls.

Daughter had a number of Barbies. Then she had a couple of Monster High Dolls (gasp). She had the type you put together, to create your own custom creature. Then, she had a couple of American girl dolls, and then one very cute doll from Pottery barn.

The youngest as a drawer full of super heroes. He inherited Buzz and Woody from my oldest until they were lost in a flood. He was very sweet when on Christmas he received a replacement Woody and Buzz. “Santa brought them back from the flood!” He was almost 4. He’s also into playmobile figures

As a baby he had a German little boy plush doll, shaped like. That was lost in the flood as well.

I’m sure at some point they’ve all played make believe with each other, with Barbie having a “date” with Superman. Etc.

Also, they had a kitchen set with pots and pans that they all played with.

This sounds very much like my house when I was growing up. My brothers were enamored with Woody and Buzz and took those guys everywhere. One of them also loved Blue’s Clues, and had a plush Steve doll.

My brothers also occasionally played with my Barbies and other dolls with me…but that was mostly because I made them sometimes…I had no sisters to play with me!

 

[UbiCaritas]

Yea, but I think action figures and dinosaurs are not what the OP had in mind. It becomes a rather mute question if that is the case.
As for boys playing with “girl dolls”, for lack of a better term. I would have a definite problem with it. Bad idea.

The church does not forbid lots of thinks that are not in the least bit wise under most circumstances. That is irrelevant to the original post. I consider it next to idiocy to allow/encourage a son to do female role playing,. Our society has truly con stark raving mad. The church does not forbid smoking, so I am going to let my kid do that?

Well, it kind of depends on what you mean by “female role playing.”

If he’s dressing up in girl clothes extensively, that might be a bit concerning.

On the other hand, if he’s playing at being someone he isn’t in the course of ordinary make-believe, that’s hardly worrying. I mean, my sisters and I, as well as some of our friends, used to put on little plays. I, a girl, inevitably played male roles because I was the oldest and strongest, and could lift them while pretending to be a prince. Doesn’t mean that as a very, very straight adult woman, I ever leave the house without a full face of makeup!

Shaming and scolding a child for pretending to be another gender in the course of ordinary play can also make them feel as though there is something wrong either with them, the other gender, or both. I remember my mother freaking out because I tended to play the boy roles in these plays, despite my logical explanation that I was bigger and could therefore lift my sisters, but not vice versa. All it did was make me feel as though I were somehow broken because I liked to pretend to sword fight and ride horses more than I liked to pretend to sit in a tower and wait to be rescued.

Lastly, a good father is capable of taking care of his kids, even if mom might do much of the heavy lifting. I would not want to teach my son that pretending to feed a baby doll or change its diaper is “bad” somehow. Quite the opposite! And for the record, I also encourage my daughter to build things with blocks, and once she’s old enough, she’ll be helping me fix things around the house because those are skills everyone should have, no matter what their calling in life.

 

[LPS]

Of course I accepted my sons playing with dolls, for many reasons but it was such a blessing to witness them mimic my husband’s care as a father, just as our daughter role-played being a mother.

I also taught them how to cook and how to properly clean the bathroom and other areas of the home.

I hope they will be good fathers someday.

 

[Bonnie]

No problem. I wasn’t a fan of dolls (nothing against them, just prefer stuffed animals) so didn’t get one for our daughter until she was two - and that was because she made her own baby doll out of a bag of popcorn with a ribbon tied around it. So cute!

As her little brother got bigger, they both played with her dolls. She “taught” him to take the heads off Barbies.

He preferred Lego figures to dolls, tho he eventually had a set of army guys.

Just have to add this funny story about a doll. I still have the life-size toddler doll that was my 7th birthday present. I keep her on the rocking chair when I’m not using it. We were having work done last summer in the house, & I kept finding my sweater draped over the doll’s head. Turns out the very manly contractor is very weirded out by dolls! I kept her in my bedroom after finding out about his phobia.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yea, but I think action figures and dinosaurs are not what the OP had in mind. It becomes a rather mute question if that is the case.
As for boys playing with “girl dolls”, for lack of a better term. I would have a definite problem with it. Bad idea.

The church does not forbid lots of thinks that are not in the least bit wise under most circumstances. That is irrelevant to the original post. I consider it next to idiocy to allow/encourage a son to do female role playing,. Our society has truly con stark raving mad. The church does not forbid smoking, so I am going to let my kid do that?

The OP asked “Or is this young man sinning in some way? Is he going against the way God designed him?”

The objective answer to that question is “no.”

The OP also did not ask about “encouraging” boys to do female role playing and I didn’t suggest anyone ought to do that. The question was whether a parent ought to forbid it or actively discourage it, and whether playing with dolls was “female role playing.” The OP cited the example of a young man who played with dolls who grew up to become a nurse. The world certainly does need men in nursing, as it is not unusual for nursing tasks to require upper body strength that is unusual in a woman, particularly when nursing for very large patients or who for some reason respond better to care coming from a male than from a female. My point is that even if a boy takes on a female character when playing with other children, it is not automatically a reason to get hysterical about it.

If you are saying that a parent does well to be aware of their child’s fantasy life and to steer the imagination from the illegitimate to the legitimate, that is a fair point. There is absolutely reason for concern when a young man develops an undue interest in dressing and undressing dolls shaped like grown women. I am not saying that should be presumed to be an exercise in empathy, LOL!!

My point, however, is that there is no necessary reason to be alarmed when a boy likes pink–ESPN is full of former football players sporting pink neckties–or likes shiny things or has an interest in providing care for baby dolls. If he’s going to be a father, he’s going to grow up and take care of babies. That is what dads do, and the good ones do not dish all the baby care off on their wives.

A good man will see feet that need washing, and he’ll be willing to step up and wash them. He’ll have enough imagination to know how his wife looks at the world. That is not only just “OK,” but a very good thing.

 

[EasterJoy]

Another example: My sons are in high school and had an assignment where they had to form groups with their classmates and act out a scene from a Shakespeare play. Their group had three guys and one of the three parts was female. One of them had to be willing to act the female part. If they had been taught that acting a female part was some sign you really wished you were female, that would have been one rough assignment. As it was, it was no big deal to them, since they realized that a male could read the part of Queen Gertrude in Hamlet without giving the impression that he secretly wished he could go around in public in a dress and a tiara.

Just as an aside: In Shakespeare’s time, ALL of the female parts had to be acted by males because acting in public wasn’t something a “decent” woman was allowed to do. Acting was a thing “proper to men, not women,” and so acting like a woman became a male thing to do.

In other words, this is a lot less about what you are doing than the meaning you attach to it.

 

[pensmama87]

When I was pregnant with my second son, my in-laws bought my oldest son a plush baby doll so he could have his own baby to take care of. He didn’t get much into it, but then when my second son was two, oh my, how he loved on that baby. He snuggled it, put it to bed, carried it around with him (holding it like a baby, not dragging it by an ankle).

Sometimes (especially after my third son was born) he’d pretend to nurse the baby, or put the baby under his shirt. He’d say “I’m playing Mommy.” My oldest did this a few times too. Other times they would pretend to be daddy.

I think it’s sweet. They’re all boys through and through - swords, bugs, rough and tumble. But I don’t discourage nurturing play. It helps them be good brothers, friends, and perhaps one day fathers, too.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Wouldn’t be concerned necessarily. I had a doll growing up: it was a cousin’s old barbie, and when I played with my “action figures” (aka dolls for boys) she was the girlfriend of the hero who had been kidnapped by the villain and had to be rescued.

Obviously there is a point at which it would become concerning, but a boy occasionally playing with a “girl’s toy”, or vice versa, isn’t cause for freakout in and of itself.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Another example: My sons are in high school and had an assignment where they had to form groups with their classmates and act out a scene from a Shakespeare play. Their group had three guys and one of the three parts was female. One of them had to be willing to act the female part. If they had been taught that acting a female part was some sign you really wished you were female, that would have been one rough assignment.

I remember similar issues going on when I studied Shakespeare plays in high school. Not only were their assignments for students to act out the scenes, teachers would often pick students at random to speak parts aloud and they did not always correspond to the genders of the characters. Now granted I did grow up in a fairly “liberal” part of the country, but I don’t think the teachers had some hidden agenda to blur gender lines and make their students LGBTQ friendly.

Also, Peter Pan, a boy, is usually played by a woman in the play and I doubt JM Barrie was transgendered. Many cartoons have the parts of boys voiced by women, Bart Simpson is voiced by a woman, but Nancy Cartwright AFAIK is a straight cis woman.

Indeed, sometimes it can be very odd for hear adult men speaking boy parts – I think of the English dub of the Japanese anime “Naruto” that had the part of Naruto voiced by a woman. Naruto is a 12 year old boy for half of the show, then there is a 4 year time skip and he is 16 for the rest of it. However, the part of his rival Sasuke, who is the same age, was voiced by a man. I believe this was also the case for the original Japanese voices. However this struck me as very odd because Sasuke isn’t really that more mature or manly than Naruto, though he certainly tries to pretend he is.

Much as with the case of Shakespeare acting assignments in HS, I assume there aren’t enough child male voice actors to fill the parts, and in the case of a long-running show like the Simpsons it wouldn’t even be practical to hire a new boy every 3 - 4 years to voice the part.

Just as an aside: In Shakespeare’s time, ALL of the female parts had to be acted by males because acting in public wasn’t something a “decent” woman was allowed to do. Acting was a thing “proper to men, not women,” and so acting like a woman became a male thing to do.

In other words, this is a lot less about what you are doing than the meaning you attach to it.

I also recall reading that pink used to be the “boy color” and blue the “girl color” and this only switched a few hundred years ago.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

I also recall reading that pink used to be the “boy color” and blue the “girl color” and this only switched a few hundred years ago.

Yeah, I mean, this stuff is all cultural. There’s no inherent reason why pink is necessarily feminine and blue is necessarily masculine.

 

[pensmama87]

Yeah, I mean, this stuff is all cultural. There’s no inherent reason why pink is necessarily feminine and blue is necessarily masculine.

The reason it used to be reversed was a holdover from humor theory. Men were red, so boys were light red. Women were blue, so girls were light blue.

Blue is still a color associated with Mary.

 

[tafan]

The OP asked “Or is this young man sinning in some way? Is he going against the way God designed him?”

The objective answer to that question is “no.”

.

You are correct, I was thinking of just the question in the thread title. You response was relevant to the last two sentences in the OP

The OP also did not ask about “encouraging” boys to do female role playing and I didn’t suggest anyone ought to do that. The question was whether a parent ought to forbid it or actively discourage it, and whether playing with dolls was “female role playing.” The OP cited the example of a young man who played with dolls who grew up to become a nurse. The world certainly does need men in nursing, as it is not unusual for nursing tasks to require upper body strength that is unusual in a woman, particularly when nursing for very large patients or who for some reason respond better to care coming from a male than from a female. My point is that even if a boy takes on a female character when playing with other children, it is not automatically a reason to get hysterical about it.

It seems its a small step from considering the behavior " of the ways we develop empathy for people " or as others posters have said “I think its sweet”. A small enough step that it sounds like encouragement to me.

And I never said get hysterical about anything.

A good man will see feet that need washing, and he’ll be willing to step up and wash them. He’ll have enough imagination to know how his wife looks at the world. That is not only just “OK,” but a very good thing.

Raise your sons to be kind and considerate, and when they grow up they will be willing to help change diapers and do their part around the house.
For heaven’s sake, take your boys out to play ball, teach them how to do wood working, teach them to change the oil in the car, go hunting and fishing with them. And while your at it, make them clean the kitchen and keep their room clean. There is no need to continue a gender neutral society. Would I be concerned if my son was playing with dolls? Yes, I would. What would I do? I don’t know, none of my sons ever did, they were to busy being boys.

But I will let all of ya’ll have the last say, I am a old-fashioned male chauvinist, I get it.