Would You Appreciate a Universal Indult?

[Lorrie]

An indult is just permission. As it is now, the bishop has to give a priest specific permission (an indult) to celebrate offer the Tridentine Mass. With a “universal indult” granted by the pope the priest wouldn’t need specific permission from the bishop

Ahhh, thank you! I had looked it up, but after I read the definition I was like . Thanks for explaining it.

 

[Frank_Roman]

Nekić:

I have never been to a Tridentine Mass. I stay up late some nights, reading my great-grandmother’s tridentine missal, and i groan with longing…
I even want to be an FSSP priest, even though i have never been to a Trdentine mass.

I really want this universal indult to be passed, so i can actually go to a Tridentine Mass.

SAME HERE!!!

Only I think God wants me to be Franciscan! Pax et Bonum!

 

[Frank_Roman]

thistle:

Why would anyone apart from elitists want Mass to be in Latin?
The vast majority of Catholics are in the developing world - Latin America, Africa and Asia.
Latin would not be a unifying thing, but rather something in common. Don’t 99.99% of the 1.1 billion Catholics who don’t speak or understand Latin have the right to understand and fully participate in a Mass in their own language!!

I heard an interview with Cardinal Arinze and he said that in Africa the NO Mass is usually celebrated in latin, or at least parts of it, because there are so many languages in such close proximity to each other that it is NECESSARY for unity in sub-sahharan africa.

 

[totustuusmaria]

Ana_Reus:

I would love to see a latin mass. I have never seen one. I actually considered going to an Sppx when I first converted (April 2004), but then I realized I would be in scism. So I decided to stay where I was. No priest in our parish knows latin as far as I know. But I could visit another.

I think that was a good decision (not to go to the SSPX). Most of the people in the SSPX are good people trying to serve God and the Church (and wishing to maintain union with the Pope, I might add); but that doesn’t change the fact that their bishops don’t have jurisdiction and their priests don’t have faculties. Their masses are illicit and their confession may be invalid due to the lack of faculties.

I want to support what the SSPX is doing which is good, but I don’t wish to participate in illicit sacraments. I wish my obedience to be firmly known. I wish that the SSPX was in union with Rome, though. I might even consider joining them if they were.

 

[Iohannes]

Ana_Reus:

I would love to see a latin mass. I have never seen one. I actually considered going to an Sppx when I first converted (April 2004), but then I realized I would be in scism. So I decided to stay where I was. No priest in our parish knows latin as far as I know. But I could visit another.

It is required by canon law that every Latin rite priest know latin, does not have to be fluent but can at least read latin. So it should not be a problem should it???

 

[MrS]

Iohannes:

It is required by canon law that every Latin rite priest know latin, does not have to be fluent but can at least read latin. So it should not be a problem should it???

There is a LOT more to the TLM than the Latin. The movements, the postures, the prayers, the sign of the cross (about 50 times in a Mass) are all part of the 62 Missal… which the priest MUST use in the TLM.

Then there is the question of the altar servers.

This is all a very big deal… and very much worth it. Glad I kept some of the older Latin/English Missals. It really is not that hard to follow along and appreciate what is happening. It seems that in the NO many just sit, stand, kneel and leave… no active participation in the true sense of the meaning. In the TLM, we have a chance to partake in the using of a Missal.

Again, Latin is not the issue… it is the reverence and prayers, and stronger theology that comes with it.

 

[tee_eff_em]

I would have liked to vote in the poll, but I couldn’t due to the change in vocabulary from the Title.

I appreciate the Latin language and the Latin Mass (both the current Mass and the 1962, which I believe are the only ones I’ve been privileged to attend). But what does it mean to “support” any of those options? Agitating for them, perhaps in defiance of one’s Ordinary? I would be uncomfortable to do so.

The Church is (thankfully) not a democracy – Why would anyone (in authority or otherwise) care what I support?

:twocents:
tee

 

[Pug]

MrS:

It seems that in the NO many just sit, stand, kneel and leave… no active participation in the true sense of the meaning. In the TLM, we have a chance to partake in the using of a Missal.

I have only been Catholic for 20 years and have always considered participation to mean prayer, adoration, etc., all at the appropriate spot. Like when we do the penitential part that you think about your sins and pray for forgiveness, stuff like that. What is meant by participation by using a missal?

 

[WanderAimlessly]

If it would make the SSPX and their arguements more irrelevant than they are now, I am all for it. Of course, I will not be going to a Tridentine Mass anytime soon.

PF

 

[Ignatius]

Looks like 84% support increased availability.

 

[MrS]

Pug:

I have only been Catholic for 20 years and have always considered participation to mean prayer, adoration, etc., all at the appropriate spot. Like when we do the penitential part that you think about your sins and pray for forgiveness, stuff like that. What is meant by participation by using a missal?

what I meant was this: many today have no idea what the priest is doing, and in Latin, they have less idea. By using a Latin/English missal, you can understand what he is saying, and feel the progression of the Mass. In other words, you are involving your mind and heart in the Mass.

I have found too many Catholics who think active participation is holding hands, becoming a reader, or an EMHC, singing during communion and other parts of the Mass that should be enjoyed with silence/reverence, etc. It becomes more about us, and less about Him. The opposite must be returned.

 

[netmilsmom]

MrS:

what I meant was this: many today have no idea what the priest is doing, and in Latin, they have less idea. By using a Latin/English missal, you can understand what he is saying, and feel the progression of the Mass. In other words, you are involving your mind and heart in the Mass.

I have found too many Catholics who think active participation is holding hands, becoming a reader, or an EMHC, singing during communion and other parts of the Mass that should be enjoyed with silence/reverence, etc. It becomes more about us, and less about Him. The opposite must be returned.

Goodness gracious!
Those “Active Catholics” will never give THAT role up!

 

[MrS]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

Goodness gracious!
Those “Active Catholics” will never give THAT role up!

And some will leave… singing “Gather Us Out”
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_13_18.gif

 

[Pug]

MrS:

what I meant was this: many today have no idea what the priest is doing… (cut) …I have found too many Catholics who think active participation is holding hands, becoming a reader

MrS, thanks! Yes, I understand your meaning now, this is sad. I do think some people don’t know what the parts and meanings of the mass are. Also, participation does seem to mean to some taking a role like EMHC.

I wish we didn’t sing during communion. I prefer more silence than we have.

 

[cardenio]

Nekić:

I have never been to a Tridentine Mass. I stay up late some nights, reading my great-grandmother’s tridentine missal, and i groan with longing…

Ehh… I know exactly what you mean. At my friend’s house one time, I found one, copyright 1965 (so it was fairly recent). It was just sitting on the table. I don’t know why. But as they were popping eardrums with their guitars, I took it and sat in the corner. It was a weird kind of silence, because the guitars were very loud. I expected to sit there, fascinated with the language, and compare words the way I do with my brother’s spanish new testament. But I opened it up and it smelled of incense and chrism… there is no scent on this earth superior to that. Incense and chrism. I thought of baking bread, and cinnamon, and lavender, and crunchy autumn leaves, but no… incense and chrism. I wanted to cry.

thistle:

Why would anyone apart from elitists want Mass to be in Latin?
The vast majority of Catholics are in the developing world - Latin America, Africa and Asia.
Latin would not be a unifying thing, but rather something in common. Don’t 99.99% of the 1.1 billion Catholics who don’t speak or understand Latin have the right to understand and fully participate in a Mass in their own language!!

I answer this with one word: beauty.

There is a beauty in participating in something you don’t understand fully. It is like saying “God, I cannot put into words what I am trying to tell you. So I am going to say this and trust that you understand what I mean.”

There is a beauty in uniting yourself not just with Catholics today but with Catholics yesterday and tomorrow.

There is a beauty in uniting yourself with the history and culture of the Church.

There is a beauty in being a part of something that is above the individual.

There is a beauty in saying “God, I don’t understand you, and I can’t understand you, but I love you.”

But, people see beauty in different places. Some people see more beauty in the novus ordo “God speaks my language” and others see beauty in the TLM “We speak God’s language.” It’s a matter of personal preference, and nothing else. Among my friends I am known for seeing beauty in weird places. Last year in biology, we dissected rats, and they were all male except for one pregnant female. Our teacher cut open the uterus and pulled out a long string of six or seven rat fetuses, tube-connected like Kogel’s viennas… It was absolutely disgusting, but beautiful.

 

[msproule]

Mary, that was beautifully stated! Who could really argue against that?

I think we are all with you :yup:
…except for the part about the rats, of course :nope: !

Nah…I know what you mean !

 

[Nekic]

It’s really good to see so many people supporting the universal indult, and even more so that there are people who share my views.

We just need more people like yourselves here down under (uuurrrggghhh… i hate that phrase…).

 

[palmas85]

Frank Roman:

I heard an interview with Cardinal Arinze and he said that in Africa the NO Mass is usually celebrated in latin, or at least parts of it, because there are so many languages in such close proximity to each other that it is NECESSARY for unity in sub-sahharan africa.

Actually the only places where the use of Latin is really controversial is in the western world, Europe, The U.S., Canada and maybe Australia. The rest of the world is OK with it.

Maybe we are too enlightened.

Or maybe just spoiled.

 

[msproule]

palmas85:

Maybe we are too enlightened.

Or maybe just spoiled.

I believe the term used was “elitist”. However, this makes me wonder if it was assigned to the wrong group of people?

 

[cardenio]

msproule:

Mary, that was beautifully stated!

I love puns. (by the way, thank you for the compliment.)
Nekić:

We just need more people like yourselves here down under (uuurrrggghhh… i hate that phrase…).

Crikey! If you don’t like it, you don’t have to use it. (my normal round of apologies for use of the word “crikey”)