Would You Attend This Mass?

  • Thread starter Thread starter FrStevenJones
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Fairwinds said:
what’s personal? I asked if my prayers in english are the equal of prayers in latin.

I don’t care who answers, so, are they?
Click to expand...
My answer is that this question has no answer because this point is being approached from the wrong perspective.
 
Fairwinds said:
what’s personal? I asked if my prayers in english are the equal of prayers in latin.

I don’t care who answers, so, are they?
Click to expand...
God will understand you no matter what language you speak, and you will always have the option of a vernacular Mass - your Bishop will make certain of it.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Father, let me clear up some things.

The propers in the Missal are often/usually not the same as the ones in the Graduale. They are different texts. The propers in the Missal are to be used only when the Mass is spoken, like at a weekday Mass. The propers in the Graduale are used only when they will be sung.

Propers in Missal=recited
Propers in Graduale=sung

If you notice in the EF, the propers in that Missal align perfectly with what is in the Graduale. But when the “reformed” Missal came out, the Consilium decided that they were going to keep the Graduale propers but also, in the Missal, have a different set of shorter propers. They thought it was silly or something to have to receite the whole Introit with its Psalm and Gloria Patri at the beginning of Mass, so took some short Bible quotes and put them in the Missal for only the Introit and Communion.

The reason that none of the Masses have Offertory antiphons in the OF Missal is because they thought it messed up the “flow” of the Mass at that part or something, so they made a strategic decision, for better or poorer, to leave it out.

The fact that none of the Masses in the Missal have Offertorys has nothing to do with sung Masses; the antiphons in the Missal were only ever intended for recited Masses in the first place.

So what we end up with is this fantastically confusing historical situation in this thread with you and I going back and forth on this point. =p
Click to expand...
Thanks for stating it more clearly than I’ve been. The reality is that the propers in the missal do get chanted sometimes, because they are there and in the vernacular. If offertory antiphon was there, it would also be used, for the same reasons!
 
FrStevenJones said:
The difficulty arises because an offertory antiphon is not in the missal, while Entrance and Communion antiphons are there. Thus offertory antiphon is used infrequently, since you must go to the Graduale Romanum to find it, and on top if that it is only in Latin there.
Click to expand...
There are plenty of offertory antiphons in the Lumen Christi Missal, which is suitable for use by the assembly, cantor and choir. It includes all proper antiphons as well as seasonal commons in a simple gradual.
 
FrStevenJones said:
Right now I am Parochial Vicar in my parish. Probably in a year I will be a pastor and able to make some significant liturgical choices . I would like to offer an OF liturgy that uses legitimate options that are not often used. I am interested if you would be would desire to attending this type of iturgy, and why/why not
  1. No hymns: instead we chant the entrace antiphon and communion antiphon. Silence during the offertory.
  2. Ad Orientem for Liturgy of the Eucharist. Liturgy of the Word facing the people, of course
  3. Use of communion rail (if available) to receive kneeling, on the tongue. Otherwise kneeler for those who wish to use it when receiving
  4. Chanted Latin Ordinaries (Gloria, Creed, Sanctus, Agnus Dei), other prayers in vernacular
  5. No communion hymn, just chant communion antiphon+ but post-communion reflection sung by choir or cantor
  6. Lots of silence (offertory, communion) rather than filling those times with hymns
  7. Oh and a really awesome homiily 10-15 minutes with lots of energy and hopefully inspiring 🙂
What do you think?
Click to expand...
I would definitely attend this Mass. It’s way closer to what I had expected when I converted. I wish all OF Masses were celebrated like this. Good luck instituting these changes; it will surely be a beautiful liturgy.
 
FrStevenJones said:
Right now I am Parochial Vicar in my parish. Probably in a year I will be a pastor and able to make some significant liturgical choices . I would like to offer an OF liturgy that uses legitimate options that are not often used. I am interested if you would be would desire to attending this type of iturgy, and why/why not
  1. No hymns: instead we chant the entrace antiphon and communion antiphon. Silence during the offertory.
  2. Ad Orientem for Liturgy of the Eucharist. Liturgy of the Word facing the people, of course
  3. Use of communion rail (if available) to receive kneeling, on the tongue. Otherwise kneeler for those who wish to use it when receiving
  4. Chanted Latin Ordinaries (Gloria, Creed, Sanctus, Agnus Dei), other prayers in vernacular
  5. No communion hymn, just chant communion antiphon+ but post-communion reflection sung by choir or cantor
  6. Lots of silence (offertory, communion) rather than filling those times with hymns
  7. Oh and a really awesome homiily 10-15 minutes with lots of energy and hopefully inspiring 🙂
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Sounds great - depending on the sermon 😉

I was blessed by attending a Quaker meeting of worship last Sunday and there was something very special about the great amount of silence. The ‘Friends’ gathered in total silence (if only we could do that as we came into church) and then most of the worship was in silence. Though there was no liturgy there was great reverence in the shared silence. It’s a shame we can’t combine liturgy with such shared deep and silence, but I don’t think many Catholic church-goers these days are ready to sit in silence for periods of time. I noticed with the Quaker meeting it took perhaps 10-15 minutes of shared silence before what they call a ‘gathered’ silence occurred which was a notable shift in the atmosphere - all slight fidgeting and movement stopped and a great sense of calm was present. It would be marvelous to have that within a mass, but I suspect I will continue to have to look for shared silence and liturgy in different places (and maybe that’s entirely appropriate).

God bless +

Michael
 
Michael_Allen said:
Sounds great - depending on the sermon 😉

I was blessed by attending a Quaker meeting of worship last Sunday and **there was something very special about the great amount of silence. The ‘Friends’ gathered in total silence (if only we could do that as we came into church) **and then most of the worship was in silence. Though there was no liturgy there was great reverence in the shared silence. It’s a shame we can’t combine liturgy with such shared deep and silence, but I don’t think many Catholic church-goers these days are ready to sit in silence for periods of time. I noticed with the Quaker meeting it took perhaps 10-15 minutes of shared silence before what they call a ‘gathered’ silence occurred which was a notable shift in the atmosphere - all slight fidgeting and movement stopped and a great sense of calm was present. It would be marvelous to have that within a mass, but I suspect I will continue to have to look for shared silence and liturgy in different places (and maybe that’s entirely appropriate).

God bless +

Michael
Click to expand...
Many years ago we were blessed to have a Cistercian monk come to our diocese and introduce contemplative prayer to us. Oddly enough, he would give us little quotes to quiet our minds. I keep one of them in my Bible and often repeat it before the 4th level of Lectio Divina.
Be still and cool in thine own mind and spirit from thine own thoughts…
Click to expand...
Therefore, be still a while from thine own thoughts, searching, seeking, desires and imaginations and be stayed in the principle of God…
Click to expand...
(From an old Quaker journal of George Fox)
Click to expand...
We have no period of silence after Communion in our parish - only singing, and I so often long for quiet so I can make my thanksgiving without distraction!
 
Tigg,

What a lovely quote that is.

I’m booked in to a retreat with a Cistercian monk later in the year. I’m looking forward to that, though I hear that food rations can be a little meager and currently I have a little too much attachment to pizza and all things cheesy, so I might have to take some secret rations :o.

God bless +

Michael
 
liturgyluver said:
You are spot on here, Provobis. Interestingly, the original translations allowed for these key language differences to be used in the first translations, before the ICEL insisted it should all be standardised. This, I think, was a big mistake.
Click to expand...
FWIW, that’s one example of UK English vs US English. In the US many of the “ise” words are spelled “ize.” May seem trivial to most but those US nuns back in the 50’s would fail you for that and “misspelling” words like color, honor, etc.

OTOH, I think that the Brits can understand Shakespeare better than the Americans.
 
ProVobis said:
FWIW, that’s one example of UK English vs US English. In the US many of the “ise” words are spelled “ize.” May seem trivial to most but those US nuns back in the 50’s would fail you for that and “misspelling” words like color, honor, etc.

OTOH, I think that the Brits can understand Shakespeare better than the Americans.
Click to expand...
You are right. I have also noticed some unfamiliar language on these forums ,eg use of the word quit instead of stop, and the expression “do the math.” Where that comes from I have no idea!
 
liturgyluver said:
You are right. I have also noticed some unfamiliar language on these forums ,eg use of the word quit instead of stop, and the expression “do the math.” Where that comes from I have no idea!
Click to expand...
Perhaps our American cousins need some spelling and grammar lessons? 😉
 
Michael_Allen said:
Tigg,

What a lovely quote that is.

I’m booked in to a retreat with a Cistercian monk later in the year. I’m looking forward to that, though I hear that food rations can be a little meager and currently I have a little too much attachment to pizza and all things cheesy, so I might have to take some secret rations :o.

God bless +

Michael
Click to expand...
:tsktsk:

I sympathize…my weakness is Snickers! 😃
 
Fairwinds said:
what’s personal? I asked if my prayers in english are the equal of prayers in latin.

I don’t care who answers, so, are they?
Click to expand...
Of course they are equal. 🙂 There is nothing magical about Latin and I have no doubt that Fr isnt seeking to suggest some superstition about Latin in and of itself. I think it’s the very long history of it’s use that touches and is meaningful for him.

Holy lives lived have nothing to do with what language is spoken, either in everyday life, prayers, or the Mass.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top