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wanner47
Guest
Actually, it *is *our business as Christians not to sin, and not to support sin either.Not your place to get in your FILs business.
Support your husband and FIL and NEW MIL … attend the wedding.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
I wouldn’t go for the reason you give. I probably would not even attend a valid Catholic wedding in the same circumstances. If this is not your first child, you have some sense as to what those few weeks will mean in terms of your comfort and the likelyhood that you will be closer than just a few weeks to delivering.
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LaLucia
Guest
Hello again Contra, Mrs. Sally is right, you need to consider your physical dis-comfort if you attend the wedding. You did say it was a long car drive and that would be very uncomfortable for you too. You are doing the right thing by staying home.
YOU are more important than the family inconsiderate gossipers. Any considerate person will understand your pregnancy situation. Your husband will enjoy the wedding with his relatives.
Okay everybody… stop the drama and move on to other topics.LOL.
YOU are more important than the family inconsiderate gossipers. Any considerate person will understand your pregnancy situation. Your husband will enjoy the wedding with his relatives.
Okay everybody… stop the drama and move on to other topics.LOL.
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PatriceA
Guest
I’m saying that if I was invited to my Jewish friends house, I would not expect him to do anything different for me. I would go knowing and respecting that his house will be totally different from mine and not do anything to make him violate his faith. I certainly would not expect him to follow the teachings of my Catholic faith. I am just a visitor, nothing more.
And since you are playing devil’s advocate, if he was coming to my house, I would go out of my way to ask him what he wanted or could eat and serve him a dish from a kosher Jewish deli if I had to. But that’s just me.
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kage_ar
Guest
Good!
Now, your friends and family members, by the same token, would not want to force you to do something that causes you to sin, right?
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PatriceA
Guest
Did you miss the part where I would not expect them to do anything different for me just because I’m Catholic? If the couple in question that is getting married have never been Catholic and have done all that they are required to do to get married/remarried and I am invited to their wedding, I am more than likely going to the wedding fully expecting that they will not be making exceptions for me just because I am Catholic and they are not.
Yes, I would fully “sin” , if the couple in question are people I love and respect. I fully am aware that I would be putting the person above the “sin”. Sometimes the people are just way more important to me.
I think this is one situation you and I will never agree on.
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wanner47
Guest
No one said the bride and groom had to make exceptions for anyone in this situation, just that they should understand and not throw a hissy fit if a Catholic declines their invitation to attend the wedding because they (the Catholic) believe the marriage to be presumptively invalid.
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PatriceA
Guest
You’re looking at a situation from someone that is choosing to follow the Catholic teachings by not attending and are fully anticipating the couple not understanding. All my posts were from the point of view that I fully want to be there and choose to be there even if I "sin’ by doing so.
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EasterJoy
Guest
According to the CA Ask-an-Apologist, the OP may discern that it is OK to attend this wedding. The Church wouldn’t call this a situation where the Catholic would give scandal by going:
from forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=358148
My advice to the OP is to talk to her husband about this as a matter concerning what her own conscience dictates. The Church allows her to go to the wedding, if it seems to her that the parties are acting according to the formation of conscience that they have been given. The FIL seems to have done this: he did not leave his first wife in order to marry a mistress or anything like that. That’s my sense of it. She needs to listen to hers.
Besides, just because according to a strict reading of Church law the OP wouldn’t sin by going does not mean she wouldn’t violate her own sense of integrity by going. I think this bears a talk with hubby, as to what his own sense of the situation dictates. The OP may decide to go for hubby’s sake, for FIL’s sake, for the sake of family unity. She may decide that neither hubby, nor FIL, nor the family expect her to go, because of her other valid reason, and that she does not choose to exert herself and override her own valid reasons not to go when no one at all expects her to do otherwise.
Just because the OP has reasons for not wanting to go that no one would accept does not mean she may not ethically avail herself of reasons that everyone involved does accept. She also does not need the Church’s position as an excuse. If it seems wrong to her, if going would seem to incorrectly represent her own sense of the situation, that is a good enough reason to be elsewhere on that day.
from forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=358148
The FIL married his first time in a church that allows divorce and re-marriage. There is no reason to believe that he did not marry his first time with the reservation that this was a viable option, should the marriage not go as planned. In other words, there is no reason to believe that he is not following the truth as he has it, or that he ever made vows with a fully operational understanding of the permanence of marriage. As another poster pointed out, he might well be able to have his first marriage annulled…except that he isn’t Catholic and neither is the bride. That kind of puts him in a Catch-22, doesn’t it? It would mean the OP couldn’t go to his wedding unless he chose to marry a Catholic, so that the Catholic Church could assure her that the first marriage was invalid!
My advice to the OP is to talk to her husband about this as a matter concerning what her own conscience dictates. The Church allows her to go to the wedding, if it seems to her that the parties are acting according to the formation of conscience that they have been given. The FIL seems to have done this: he did not leave his first wife in order to marry a mistress or anything like that. That’s my sense of it. She needs to listen to hers.
Besides, just because according to a strict reading of Church law the OP wouldn’t sin by going does not mean she wouldn’t violate her own sense of integrity by going. I think this bears a talk with hubby, as to what his own sense of the situation dictates. The OP may decide to go for hubby’s sake, for FIL’s sake, for the sake of family unity. She may decide that neither hubby, nor FIL, nor the family expect her to go, because of her other valid reason, and that she does not choose to exert herself and override her own valid reasons not to go when no one at all expects her to do otherwise.
Just because the OP has reasons for not wanting to go that no one would accept does not mean she may not ethically avail herself of reasons that everyone involved does accept. She also does not need the Church’s position as an excuse. If it seems wrong to her, if going would seem to incorrectly represent her own sense of the situation, that is a good enough reason to be elsewhere on that day.
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kage_ar
Guest
Wow. I cannot look at Jesus on the cross and say “I like Aunt Sally more than the ‘sin’ you died for”.
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wanner47
Guest
Well, having been in that situation myself, I don’t think most people react well when told, “I’m sorry, I can’t attend your wedding because I believe it’s invalid” (my family certainly didn’t react well).
But I fail to see, then, how your opinion is relevant to the OP. If you believe it’s okay to commit sin in this instance, that’s *your *problem. The OP is trying to discern if attending this particular wedding would be a sin, because presumably she will not attend if it is a sin to do so, in line with her faithful adherence to the Catholic teachings.
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kage_ar
Guest
There is no debate, it is a sin to support someone in a sin or to participate in scandal.
The Apologists differ the culpability. For some people it would be mortal sin, for some venial.
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SarahR
Guest
Yes I’d probably go, unless there were underlying issues such as mentioned in someone’s post (ex: if they were getting married due to leaving their respective marriages for each other etc).
But if I was the OP and felt strongly that I shouldn’t go…I wouldn’t.
But if I was the OP and felt strongly that I shouldn’t go…I wouldn’t.
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
The fact of the matter is that the first marriage is presumed to be valid. It may not be and thus this “2nd marriage” may indeed be the 1st valid sacramental marriage. Ultimately we don’t know.
For example, I once had to annul 4 marriages. We started with the first marriage and once that was annuled meant that the 2nd marriage was then presumed valid and once that was annuled meant that the 3rd marriage was then presumed valid, etc.
So, there’s no easy answer to this situation. We have no way of knowing whether or not the 1st marriage was valid, we can only presume.
Anyone who answers definitely whether or not someone else should attend or not attend a wedding such as this is doing so without basis. Only the individuals involved really know the hearts, faith, and facts involved.
For example, I once had to annul 4 marriages. We started with the first marriage and once that was annuled meant that the 2nd marriage was then presumed valid and once that was annuled meant that the 3rd marriage was then presumed valid, etc.
So, there’s no easy answer to this situation. We have no way of knowing whether or not the 1st marriage was valid, we can only presume.
Anyone who answers definitely whether or not someone else should attend or not attend a wedding such as this is doing so without basis. Only the individuals involved really know the hearts, faith, and facts involved.
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PatriceA
Guest
That is a huge, huge jump from watching someone be crucified to watching someone get married. I do not equate the situation of a marriage of two Protestants being valid or not vaild and whether a Catholic should attend as the same as putting someone to death.
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PatriceA
Guest
At some point I was not longer addressing the OP, but Kage_AR.
It sounds to me like the OP has had a rocky relationship with the family members in this situation and that may be more concern in how she makes her decision and that is totally understandable.
At no time was I trying to say to the OP that in every situation when its family you absolutely must attend. If the OP took it that I was judging her decision to stay at home, then I apologize to her.
We all should make the decision to attend a wedding that is considered invalid with wisdom and much discernment and with the advice of a spiritual advisor if needed.
All I was debating with Kage_Ar is that there are times I will attend the wedding of a loved one, even if its considered invalid.
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PatriceA
Guest
But of course not all sins are equal. And in my opinion, attending the marriage of tw protestants that are in line with their church teachings is not the same as stealing or committing murder.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Um, no, one of the apologists here at Catholic Answers has written quite clearly that there is no blanket prohibition on Catholics attending invalid marriages:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=64951
In this case, there is no reason to think that the parties involved have a proper appreciation of the permanence of marriage, let alone that they did not have a good-faith reservation that allowed the possibility of divorce when they made their first vows. Furthermore, they are not bound to follow canon law that would bind a Catholic to obtain an annulment. In fact, by being married by an Anglican priest who does have to make a determination that they are free to marry by his lights, they have done about as much as they can to establish that they are free to marry. Were they to go to a Catholic tribunal, their case would not be heard, because neither party is Catholic. The Church does not require that we place the difficult condition on them that they must become Catholic and obtain a decree of nullity before we may attend their second marriage without sinning.
IOW, you are saying that to attend is a sin, period, but according to Catholic Answers, the Church’s position is not so cut-and-dried as yours is. Be very careful that you do not put words into the Church’s mouth. The OP asked for your opinion, and you have presented your sense of the matter, as asked, which is fine. It is not our place, however, to declare that the Church has forbidden something that she has not forbidden because our own consciences forbid it. That is going too far.
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agapewolf
Guest
Um, no.
There are 2 completely different situations presented. In the linked question, it is a Catholic marrying outside of canon law form.
In this thread, it is 2 people celebrating an adulterous relationship.
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kage_ar
Guest
Exactly!
Adultery = sin. Always, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1868.htm
**1868 **Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
- by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
- by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
- by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so; - by protecting evil-doers.
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