Would you believe that I am omniscient?

[JRKH]

Last year, I started a thread regarding omniscience. The thread focused on whether or not we are justified in believing that god is omniscient. It was a great conversation that I feel ended too early, so I’d like to revisit omniscience with a thought experiment.

In this thought experiment, I have claimed to be omniscient. I invited anyone to ask me any question about any topic and answered all questions to everyone’s satisfaction. Science and math questions, unsolved murders, hidden items, the location of lost keys, etc - I answer everyone and no one can find any error in any of the information that I have provided.

An interesting thought topic…So many ways to go with it.
To answer your questions…

Are people justified in saying that I am omniscient?

This is somewhat subjective. Undoubtedly some people would feel justified in saying you were omniscient…others would not. It would depend somewhat on the individual’s view on what justifies…

Would you believe that I am omniscient?

No - but then I would not deny that you are either…

Why or why not?

I have no way of proving the matter one way or the other.

Peace
James

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Last year, I started a thread
Are people justified in saying that I am omniscient? Would you believe that I am omniscient?

No

 

[oldcatholicguy]

If you were omniscient, you would not have to ask these three questions.

He could claim that he already knows the answers to the questions, he just asked them to prompt us to think about it. The “looking forward to your responses” part is the part that disproves him being omniscient as the phrase implies a lack of prior knowledge to what the responses will be.

 

[polytropos]

I would contend that “omniscient” in the sense relevant to natural theology may only be predicated of a metaphysically simple, purely actual being, which is therefore in fact identical to its omniscience (in reference, though not in sense).

There is a categorical distinction in the type of knowing. God knows all things because he is present to them as cause and agent. He is not omniscient merely because he happens to know all things in the sense that he could answer any questions you ask him.

I would also argue that omniscience is inconsistent with a mutable being situated in time. God can be omniscient because he exists simultaneously with all times. Someone who changes with time cannot know future contingents, however.

So assuming that you are a person, I would not believe that you are omniscient in the sense that God is omniscient. If you can answer all of our questions, then you would be really intelligent, and perhaps we could call you “omniscient” in a weaker sense. But that sense would (assuming you are human and situated in time) distinguish from other human intellects only by degree, not by kind, whereas God’s omniscience differs by kind.

 

[BubaBob]

Last year, I started a thread regarding omniscience. The thread focused on whether or not we are justified in believing that god is omniscient. It was a great conversation that I feel ended too early, so I’d like to revisit omniscience with a thought experiment.

In this thought experiment, I have claimed to be omniscient. I invited anyone to ask me any question about any topic and answered all questions to everyone’s satisfaction. Science and math questions, unsolved murders, hidden items, the location of lost keys, etc - I answer everyone and no one can find any error in any of the information that I have provided.

Are people justified in saying that I am omniscient? Would you believe that I am omniscient? Why or why not?

Looking forward to your responses.

Alright Mr. Sparky the Dog,

My brother Henry is not feeling too good. What do you recommend we do for him we already tried MaryLou’s home remedy for snake bite? He is pale and yelling a lot! I prayed to the Lord for someone to help, but so far the only one that come by is a retired horse doctor that lives in the other township. He says that he is not going to be much help unless Henry has a long face and some hooves. What do you recommend we do for poor Henry since you know everything?

 

[dmar198]

Alright Mr. Sparky the Dog,

My brother Henry is not feeling too good. What do you recommend we do for him we already tried MaryLou’s home remedy for snake bite? He is pale and yelling a lot! I prayed to the Lord for someone to help, but so far the only one that come by is a retired horse doctor that lives in the other township. He says that he is not going to be much help unless Henry has a long face and some hooves. What do you recommend we do for poor Henry since you know everything?

FYI, he’s not actually claiming to be omniscient. His post does not say “I am omniscient” but “Would you believe that I am omniscient” if he was able to answer every question anybody could ask him. And he doesn’t claim he can do that, either, he just wonders if that would be sufficient grounds to call him omniscient if he Could do it.

 

[laircy]

The question utilizes a scientific approach to proving omniscience. But we do not say that God is omniscient based on asking him everything, but through philosophical proof, by knowing what God is.

I think of God’s omniscience like dots on a piece of paper. Say God is the paper, and every marking on the paper is every thing that exists, everything that there is to have knowledge about. The dots are dependent on the paper to exist, and the paper “knows” everything that is on it, simply because it is there.

As some posters have said above: God gives existence to all things, and is present to them as cause and agent, therefore He knows about them.

 

[BubaBob]

FYI, he’s not actually claiming to be omniscient. His post does not say “I am omniscient” but “Would you believe that I am omniscient” if he was able to answer every question anybody could ask him. And he doesn’t claim he can do that, either, he just wonders if that would be sufficient grounds to call him omniscient if he Could do it.

Well, who is this guy? He said in his posts that he had answered other folk’s questions and now you tell me he is no longer answering any more questions. What a racket and this sure won’t help Henry any either!

 

[TimothyH]

Omniscient - not omnipotent.

He said he could answer any question and so I asked a question. Either he knows the answer or he doesn’t.

-Tim-

 

[Petaro]

Are you capable of answering questions about the future?

Are you capable of reading my thoughts and knowing my heart?

Do you know how many hairs are on my head?

Etc…

Stuff that! What are next week’s winning lotto numbers? Keep them coming and I will give you whatever little title you want. It won’t mean a thing to me as long as you don’t expect me to bow down and adore you.

 

[Sparkythedog]

Are you capable of answering questions about the future?

Are you capable of reading my thoughts and knowing my heart?

Do you know how many hairs are on my head?

Etc…

Yes, in this thought experiment I can tell you exactly how many hairs are on your head, what you are thinking and what you or anyone else will do in the future.

 

[Sparkythedog]

It wouldn’t be something that could ever be completely tested as there are an uncountable number of questions that could potentially be presented.

Might there be another way to convince you that I am omniscient?

 

[Sparkythedog]

Your knowledge, as you describe it, would still be restricted to the natural world. We cannot imagine any knowledge outside our physical world, which is limited by 3-dimensional space and time.

How did you determine this? You may not be able to escape the confines of your own experience. But how do you know the limits of my imagination? As I have said before, I am omniscient (in this scenario).

 

[Sparkythedog]

We are finite in our intelligence so we do not have the independent means to verify that you’re truly omniscient. We cannot prove you’re omniscient by simply knowing that you answered all questions we asked to our satisfaction.

I think this is a reasonable assumption. Do you personally believe that something can have omniscience? If yes, do you think there is a way to verify it other than asking questions?

 

[Sparkythedog]

Suppose your thought experiment proves that omniscience can’t be verified this way. Don’t you think there are more reliable ways to demonstrate God’s omniscience? I think there are several better foundations for believing in God’s omniscience than because someone tested it. For example, the Bible says He is omniscient. That is sufficient for me. Or how about this: philosophy tells us that God gives existence to all things. Therefore anything that can be known is connected to God’s mind. That seems to imply omniscience to me. What do you think?

The bible bit is an argument from authority.

I’m more interested in your philosophical argument for omniscience. Can you explain this further?

 

[Sparkythedog]

No, no amount of direct empiracle testing would convince me that anyone were omniscient. It would take reasoning similar to that showing that God is omniscient to convince me that someone were, and that kind of reasoning isn’t really going to work with a human (or rather, a human who isn’t also God).

Someone else brought this up earlier and I find it interesting. Can you walk me through this line of reasoning that leads to God’s omniscience?

 

[Sparkythedog]

In addition, a prerequisite of being omniscient is being outside of time and space. All ages of time and areas of space must be considered the “Present” to someone who is omniscient.

How did you determine that this is the case? What does it mean to be outside of space and time?

 

[Sparkythedog]

This may be my simple 18 year old reasoning, but I think I can confidently say that you are not omniscient because you are a human, and you are not God.

How did you determine that God is omniscient and I am not? What was your line of reasoning?

 

[Sparkythedog]

An interesting thought topic…So many ways to go with it.
To answer your questions…

This is somewhat subjective. Undoubtedly some people would feel justified in saying you were omniscient…others would not. It would depend somewhat on the individual’s view on what justifies…

No - but then I would not deny that you are either…

I have no way of proving the matter one way or the other.

Peace
James

I would say those are reaonable answers.

 

[Sparkythedog]

The question utilizes a scientific approach to proving omniscience. But we do not say that God is omniscient based on asking him everything, but through philosophical proof, by knowing what God is.

I think of God’s omniscience like dots on a piece of paper. Say God is the paper, and every marking on the paper is every thing that exists, everything that there is to have knowledge about. The dots are dependent on the paper to exist, and the paper “knows” everything that is on it, simply because it is there.

As some posters have said above: God gives existence to all things, and is present to them as cause and agent, therefore He knows about them.

I like this paper and dots example. I think it is the best description of omniscience I’ve heard so far.

I’m interested in hearing a philosophical proof for God’s omniscience. Several other posts brought this up as well. I’m hoping that someone will elaborate on it.