Would you expect incense at a childrens Christmas Mass?

[WhiteLeather]

The Catholic Church has, for some time, advocated “progressive solemnity”. Simply put, the more “important” a feast or other day is, the more we put into it. A routine Sunday in Ordinary Time wouldn’t rate much outside of the normal week to week practices. Christmas and Easter are way up there on the list (WAAAAAAAY up). So we pull out the incense, we add musicians, we add decorations, etc.

We’re too quick to add or cancel something based on a minority issue or even a perception of an issue. We “what if” things out of relevance. Keep the incense on Christmas!

 

[Phemie]

I have every sympathy for those suffering from asthma and other childhood allergies. The Catholic Church has been using incense for 2,000 years but the current asthma pandemic is very recent. There are no recorded cases of incense smoke causing ill health. Some people have a bad reaction to incense smoke, but this is extremely rare. A number of our altar servers suffer from asthma and they find that incense smoke is helpful. We have one asthmatic thurifer.

Of course we also have the smoke haters who insist upon sitting at the front, coughing loudly throughout Mass and fanning themselves with their Mass sheets every time the thurible is brought onto the sanctuary. If you have real problems with incense, sit out of range.

I love incense and would have it at every Mass if it were just me. But I also have a child who is asthmatic and who couldn’t be close to where incense was being used. Whenever we knew it would be used we sat way in the back and left as soon as she started to wheeze.

I also agree with the poster who mentioned how the asthma epidemic is recent. I worked in an ER in a community of 10,000 people for two years in the late 70s and I saw one person brought in with a severe asthma attack in that time. There was no air pollution in that area. Fast forward 10 years and I’m sitting in the respiratory treatment area of another hospital, in a high agricultural region (read high pesticide use )and the kids are lined up to use the nebuliser masks due to severe asthma attacks. Yes air quality is certainly playing a leading role in the asthma epidemic.

 

[Cat]

I love incense and would have it at every Mass if it were just me. But I also have a child who is asthmatic and who couldn’t be close to where incense was being used. Whenever we knew it would be used we sat way in the back and left as soon as she started to wheeze.

I also agree with the poster who mentioned how the asthma epidemic is recent. I worked in an ER in a community of 10,000 people for two years in the late 70s and I saw one person brought in with a severe asthma attack in that time. There was no air pollution in that area. Fast forward 10 years and I’m sitting in the respiratory treatment area of another hospital, in a high agricultural region (read high pesticide use )and the kids are lined up to use the nebuliser masks due to severe asthma attacks. Yes air quality is certainly playing a leading role in the asthma epidemic.

Yes, isn’t it weird (and sad) that in spite of all the miraculous advances in health care and medicine, along with the information highway that makes it possible for all of us to learn more about health and wellness, we all seem to be getting unhealthier here in the U.S.?

There was a story on the national news last night about a young women (in her 30s) who did everything right–good diet, physically-fit, no excesses, etc.–who still got an aggressive form of breast cancer.

 

[Natural_Family]

I like to see incense used, but can’t be anywhere near it because it makes me feel sick and faint. For that reason, I find it difficult to attend the Extraordinary Form Latin Mass because of the clouds of incense that usually fill the Church. The first time I ever attended one, I fainted. Now, if I attend one, I sit near the door, but still have to spend time outside.
Incense is used at the Mass I regularly attend, but the Church is large, it is not used excessively and I am with the choir in the loft, so I am not affected.
That being said, it is really only the excessive use of incense that has ever caused me a problem. I think that sometimes people can react against the seldom use of incense in many parishes by overusing it when they discover the Church’s liturgical treasures in their fullness. Sensitivity to problems which can arise from using incense can enable solutions to be found to facilitate its use, such as ensuring adequate ventilation, being moderate in the amount of incense used, using unadulterated incense and providing advance warning for people who may be affected so they can sit in a suitable spot. If that were done, then incense at Christmas, other solemnities and regular Sunday Masses could be more usual.

 

[centurionguard]

Yes, isn’t it weird (and sad) that in spite of all the miraculous advances in health care and medicine, along with the information highway that makes it possible for all of us to learn more about health and wellness, we all seem to be getting unhealthier here in the U.S.?

There was a story on the national news last night about a young women (in her 30s) who did everything right–good diet, physically-fit, no excesses, etc.–who still got an aggressive form of breast cancer.

Its strange in the last decade or so or so it seems from the time I was formerly a sacristan that increasing its not just parishioners affected by allergies and the sort.

I suffer with Asthma so I’m not altogether insensitive to these issues. But I choose to sit in the back of the church where there’s more fresh air. For the last decade my parish has reserved five pews for parishioners with allergies from every sort from soup to nuts. So much so the parish bulletin frequently prints an insert reminding and requesting all parishioners to be considerate of others with allergies and to hold off from wearing hair sprays, gels, colognes, perfumes and even perfumed under-arm deodorant.

Before the year 2000 I rarely heard much complaint about allergies being a concern in the church. However; I do recall hearing about school districts banning kids from bringing peanut butter sandwiches to school after a number of deaths exploded in the news. It may sound weird to mention this having nothing to do with Mass functions but indirectly the allergy aspect in itself is prevalent just the same.

Everything today has a deleterious affect on human health from pollutants in the air to preservatives and contaminants like (antibiotics) and speed growth drugs used in various animals and chemicals in fresh food production. Even plastic containers which are claimed to be microwave safe leech petroleum contaminants. The list is virtually endless and man made for huge profit in big business. Yours, mine or anybody else health is not even secondary when it comes to by-products leeched by man made industry.

Life goes On for some.

 

[dochawk]

We have a simple solution at my parish: due to his own health, Father frequently asks me to use minimal amounts of incense. And if I’ve can handle it under his own nose . . .

hawk

 

[dochawk]

It’s so awkward the way they swing the thurible too. I think more incense needs to be used so that priests and bishops get more experience swinging a thurible. I have yet to see a priest or bishop who can hold a candle to my FSSP priest in thurible swinging. His technique and artistic merit is simply astounding.

Try a byzantine priest; the entire technique is different (AND, 11 of the 12 bells on higher thurifer ring!).

There is a pull near the end of each swing, jerking the chain and thus the thurible.

even if I only put in a grain or two, we get a noticable cloud . . L

hawk

 

[andrewstx]

Makes you wonder how Christians lived long enough for there to BE a Church today since incense is so deadly.

I am reminded of my (past) Anglican days. Over 1/2 of the parish would object to incense, but they all smoked ciggarettes. At the end of mass they would light up as soon as they reached the narthex.

Allergies indeed!

 

[Phemie]

I am reminded of my (past) Anglican days. Over 1/2 of the parish would object to incense, but they all smoked ciggarettes. At the end of mass they would light up as soon as they reached the narthex.

Allergies indeed!

While it’s true that some people would start coughing at the sight of a brand new empty thurible being swung, the number of kids on inhalers these days is sky high so you cannot ignore the effects on incense smoke on a large percentage of the congregation. Is it worth making some kids sick for several days for the sake of a non-required sensory stimulus? Because, let’s face it, once an asthma attack is triggered, there’s no telling how long it will last. For the sake of one kid’s health, I’d forsake incense at the “Children’s Mass”.

 

[andrewstx]

My point is if they are allergic to incense, they should also be allergic to foul, stinky ciggarettes. But these people hated incense and loved cigs.

 

[andrewstx]

By the way. I have COPD and use an inhaler and nebuliser myself. Those Anglicans weren’t allergic to incense, they were hypocrites and allergic to Catholicism.

I live in a town where most people smoke in restaurants and anyplace else they want to.

 

[Phemie]

By the way. I have COPD and use an inhaler and nebuliser myself. Those Anglicans weren’t allergic to incense, they were hypocrites and allergic to Catholicism.

I live in a town where most people smoke in restaurants and anyplace else they want to.

I live where smokers are treated like pariah and smoking is only allowed outside and so many feet away from most businesses. It’s sad to see people so addicted that they are sitting in wheelchairs, coats on, IV poles in tow, on the far side of the hospital parking lot, because smoking is not allowed on hospital property.

As for denying they have allergies… well, I can recall my ICU asthma patient who was on IV aminophylline and oxygen. I came in to the unit to find him missing. Found him in the bathroom sneaking a cigarette. Being allergic doesn’t preclude being addicted – or plain stupid.

 

[andrewstx]

Sounds like I need to move to Canada, just so I can breathe.

 

[Windmill]

Our PV almost got run out of town because he started using incense.

My preference would be to add a “high Mass” where it is understood that incense will be used. That way, everyone that is allergic can avoid that Mass.

As far as the OP, I wouldn’t be surprised, but I think there are too many hurdles to using it. If I were a priest, I’d hold out for Midnight Mass, where it’s expected. That way, the smoke can clear overnight.

I have asthma, and I’ve sat as a server holding a burning thurible for 10 minutes while the smoke wafted in my face continuously. I actually got a bronchial infection shortly thereafter and had to take antibiotics. I don’t doubt some people have problems, but I am still a big fan of incense. If there was a Mass that had it consistently, that’d be the one I’d go to. I just wouldn’t be the thurifer.

 

[Jon_in_the_Nati]

I was raised Greek Orthodox, and spent a few years in various Byzantine Catholic parishes, before going bi (ritual). Anyone who has been to any service in these places knows there is a ridiculous amount of smoke, not just the couple puffs one gets at a standard OF. Moreover, the smoke is not limited to the sanctuary (that is, the entire nave is thoroughly censed). I’ve asked multiple Byzantine Rite (Orthodox and Catholic) priests if people have allergies or other difficulties with the incense, and none of them have even heard of that ever coming up.

I just find it odd, given the outcry among Roman Rite Catholics any time a thurible makes even a cameo appearance, that there is never any issue in Byzantine parishes. On a personal note, incense is one of the things I desperately miss when I attend OF masses. It is such a beautiful and symbolic part of the mass that I really why it is so rare (heck, the Episcopalians use it more than any Catholic parish I’ve seen with the exception of one [a cathedral]).

 

[anp1215]

I agree there should be some masses without incense. But there is a subtle innuendo here by some that because it is a children’s mass, it would be borderline abusive to include incense, IMHO.

If anparia does not regularly have incense, then yes that should be published. B

There is also a subtle innuendo (not necessarily by you) that everyone who complains about incense is a silly hypchondriac.

I’m personally looking forward to smelling some incense the day after tomorrow, but I’m not sure if the Mass I’m going to will have any.

Merry Christmas!

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

There are those who are truly allergic to incense or suffer from severe asthma. These people are very few in number. There are those who simply don’t like the smell, and there are many of these. There are also those who think they’re allergic to it because they have been conditioned to avoid all smoke as if it were tobacco. When churches use incense with bits of wood in it, it tends to affect people more than the pure gum incenses like those favored by Orthodox churches (which use TONS of incense every Sunday).

Where do you get this idea? Have you priced a thurible lately? I went shopping for one this year and was just floored at how expensive they are.

~Liza

I bought a beautiful thurible from Autom for $45. It wasn’t the fanciest or the best made, but it does the job and looks nice.

 

[GwenL]

I don’t understand why people seem to hate incense and why parishes and priests won’t use it. Yes, some people probably have respiratory problems that cause them to react badly. But aside from that very small percentage, I don’t get it.

We use incense at every Sunday and Solemnity Mass.

We use pure frankincense that I bought in Jerusalem. It’s much more pure that what you buy in the states, and has no additives for smell or color. I think it’s much less irritating.

Bottom line: The people of God have been using incense to worship Him for 3300 years (reference Exodus and Leviticus). This is how we are going to worship in heaven (reference Revelation). Who are we to break that continuity?

You might try buying incense in the Holy Land. Surely someone in your parish is going on a pilgrimage this year or next, and could be induced into buying it? I bought 10 kilos; brought it back in a gym bag. It cost me about $5 per pound, The perfumy stuff you buy from convents in the U.S. is upward of $20 per pound.