Would you find this Chase branch practice offensive?

[CatholicGeek1]

It really saddens me that many of you are perfectly okay with a banking institution - or any other institution - giving preferential treatment to people simply because they have more money.

How many of you cheered when Pope Francis was chosen as Pope? How many of you have read the stories of St. Francis of Assisi? I would think many. Yet how easily you have forgotten what they stand for.

I don’t think most of the people here are saying that they are ok with people being treated differently because they have more money, because that is not what is going on. They are being treated differently because they spend more money. You get what you pay for.

 

[CatholicGeek1]

So there’s this local Chase branch in my town that has two entrances. The nice, main entrance in the front of the building is marked for “high wealth” individuals only. Then there’s the little, inconspicuous side door that reserved for “regular” people like you and me. I don’t know about you, but I kind of find this offensive. What are your thoughts on this?

What I find offensive, is people going onto public forums and whining about the rich (most of whom have worked long and hard to be rich) and the treatment that they get. If you took that time and energy to help the poor, it would do a lot of good. If you took that time and energy into learning, practicing, and applying a skill that society considers valuable, you could join the rich people that you complain about.

 

[EasterJoy]

So there’s this local Chase branch in my town that has two entrances. The nice, main entrance in the front of the building is marked for “high wealth” individuals only. Then there’s the little, inconspicuous side door that reserved for “regular” people like you and me. I don’t know about you, but I kind of find this offensive. What are your thoughts on this?

It reminds me of driving into a certain casino-filled town in Nevada with a friend of mine. As we drove by all the glamorous buildings, he remarked, “This place wasn’t built on winners.” Nope, it was built by and for all those folks who drive out of town with a lot less money than when they drove in.

When you see a merchant appealing to your vanity, be very wary. They don’t make all that effort because they like you better. They do it because the vain have substantially heavier fleece than the next sheep over.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

When you see a merchant appealing to your vanity, be very wary. They don’t make all that effort because they like you better. They do it because the vain have substantially heavier fleece than the next sheep over.

Come now, you make it sound as if having more money is worse than having little. I’m surrounded by poverty on a constant basis seeing as I frequently walk the streets here. You call that life dignifying?

 

[EasterJoy]

Come now, you make it sound as if having more money is worse than having little. I’m surrounded by poverty on a constant basis seeing as I frequently walk the streets here. You call that life dignifying?

Where did you get that idea from my caution to be wary of merchants appealing to your vanity? Do you think it takes a certain bank account to want to have someone curry your favor, or that once you have a certain bank account you never have to be concerned with being fleeced by people who take advantage of you because you’ve made yourself prone to flattery?

It helps one’s sense of dignity to be able to do productive work that is appreciated and compensated, but there is no lack of dignity in a simple life, there is no lack of dignity in having human needs, and there is no lack of dignity of being out of work through no fault of your own. I think sometimes when the Lord said “blessed are the poor in spirit”, this is what he meant. It is not that it is good to have realistic worries about getting your physical needs met, but rather that it is good to be humble, and not to fall for the temptation of thinking that you are better than someone else because by having asserted yourself and dodged some bad luck you can afford not to worry. (Not that rich people necessarily spend less time obsessing over money than people who actually have far more reason to be concerned.)

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Where did you get that idea from my caution to be wary of merchants appealing to your vanity?

Such merchants are no more in need of a decent life than you (or better yet, the people who have less than both of you). Do you condemn a lion for feeding off the antelope herds? Of course not.

It helps one’s sense of dignity to be able to do productive work that is appreciated and compensated, but there is no lack of dignity in a simple life, there is no lack of dignity in having human needs, and there is no lack of dignity of being out of work through no fault of your own.

I’m just saying that my country’s history has had far too many religious glorifying poverty in order to enforce colonial rule and keep my own people in racially/socially-segregated bondage and hardship. If the so-called ‘simple life’ and fulfilling the most base human needs are all it takes to recognize the dignity of persons, then it can be argued that the poor don’t need any more attention (if not less). They have all they ‘need’: a carabao to till the haciendero’s land.

 

[Fairwinds]

sometimes I walk into a bank to deposit a check, sometimes I go to a bank as trustee for the family trust or other entities like it I’m involved in professionally. these are two very different needs served by different kinds of bank employees.

I’m not getting what the problem is … the OP doesn’t like signs above the door? that seems petty.

F/

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Such merchants are no more in need of a decent life than you (or better yet, the people who have less than both of you). Do you condemn a lion for feeding off the antelope herds? Of course not.

I’m just saying that my country’s history has had far too many religious glorifying poverty in order to enforce colonial rule and keep my own people in racially/socially-segregated bondage and hardship. If the so-called ‘simple life’ and fulfilling the most base human needs are all it takes to recognize the dignity of persons, then it can be argued that the poor don’t need any more attention (if not less). They have all they ‘need’: a carabao to till the haciendero’s land.

Yes, the “Noble Savage” myth in another variation. :clapping:

 

[EasterJoy]

Such merchants are no more in need of a decent life than you (or better yet, the people who have less than both of you). Do you condemn a lion for feeding off the antelope herds? Of course not.

I’m just saying that my country’s history has had far too many religious glorifying poverty in order to enforce colonial rule and keep my own people in racially/socially-segregated bondage and hardship. If the so-called ‘simple life’ and fulfilling the most base human needs are all it takes to recognize the dignity of persons, then it can be argued that the poor don’t need any more attention (if not less). They have all they ‘need’: a carabao to till the haciendero’s land.

I wouldn’t condemn a lion for eating antelopes, but I was speaking of hyenas who ensnare the other hyenas. Merchants provide a necessary service, because they sell products that manufacturers make to consumers who have need of the items. So far, so good…there is no sin in being in sales! When some particular merchant makes it his strategy to sell you something with the idea that he or she is going to put you in a class above everybody else, though, watch out! That foolish vanity shows up in the price tag.

What does it profit the rich to have a fancier door to waltz through, as if it makes them better, as if it will make their investments more profitable? Is that going to make them care about the poor? Is the rip-off on the other side of the fancy door going to help the poor? Let’s go ahead and doubt that. And why do you think I’m preaching simplicity to the poor? No, I’m preaching simplicity to those who are not poor! If they have money to give away, then why give it to someone who flatters them? Why not give it to people who actually do work for them, instead? If you’re going to impress someone with how you spend your wealth, impress God. Pay your workers what they are worth, lest they call out to Him. Give money to those in need, and don’t put it into things that will just rot. Look at the man who does your yard or picks the crops you buy as your equal, because in Heaven’s eyes he is at least that, and a fancy pair of shoes or groveling treatment you get from some banker does not change that. *That *is what I am trying to say. I’m not discouraging someone who does honest work from expecting an honest day’s wage instead of what the more powerful can get by with paying–heaven forbid!!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I wouldn’t condemn a lion for eating antelopes, but I was speaking of hyenas who ensnare the other hyenas. Merchants provide a necessary service, because they sell products that manufacturers make to consumers who have need of the items. So far, so good…there is no sin in being in sales! When some particular merchant makes it his strategy to sell you something with the idea that he or she is going to put you in a class above everybody else, though, watch out! That foolish vanity shows up in the price tag.

What does it profit the rich to have a fancier door to waltz through, as if it makes them better, as if it will make their investments more profitable? Is that going to make them care about the poor? Is the rip-off on the other side of the fancy door going to help the poor? Let’s go ahead and doubt that. And why do you think I’m preaching simplicity to the poor? No, I’m preaching simplicity to those who are not poor! If they have money to give away, then why give it to someone who flatters them? Why not give it to people who actually do work for them, instead? If you’re going to impress someone with how you spend your wealth, impress God. Pay your workers what they are worth, lest they call out to Him. Give money to those in need, and don’t put it into things that will just rot. Look at the man who does your yard or picks the crops you buy as your equal, because in Heaven’s eyes he is at least that, and a fancy pair of shoes or groveling treatment you get from some banker does not change that. *That *is what I am trying to say. I’m not discouraging someone who does honest work from expecting an honest day’s wage instead of what the more powerful can get by with paying–heaven forbid!!

A lot of judgments are being made based on the OP’s already very biased viewpoint. Why the snarkiness? Do the “rich” actually “waltz” through that “fancy door?” Or do people who need help managing their savings, perhaps saved over the course of a lifetime, and who drive up in an older used car, wearing used chinos, simply WALK up to the door where they are going to get that help? I think you might be surprised by the millionaire next door, frankly. Not all of them live in gated communities and drive a Lexus or a Land Rover.

Your rhetoric is showing, EasterJoy. You are painting people with a barn-sized brush. You have no idea who those customers are or might be, but you’re willing to decide that they are 1) being ripped off by the bank which is playing to their vanity and 2) probably didn’t get their wealth honestly.

Unfair assessments all around.

 

[Fairwinds]

…
What does it profit the rich to have a fancier door to waltz through, as if it makes them better, as if it will make their investments more profitable? Is that going to make them care about the poor? …

I think you’re projecting, although what I’m not sure.

I don’t care what the door says. I do care about getting a different kind of financial service when I act as a financial trustee than what an ordinary teller can provide.

and, of course, as a good Catholic I give generously according to my means.

F/

 

[EasterJoy]

I think you’re projecting, although what I’m not sure…

The OP asked what I’d make of it, and what I make of it is “somebody is sucking up, merchants do everything they do in order to make a buck, therefore somebody is sucking up in order to make a buck. Maybe they can do it without charging more than the next guy, but fancy buildings aren’t free. Watch out.”

I also don’t think it is a good idea spiritually to get too fond of having people suck up to you. That doesn’t mean you don’t expect common courtesy, but rather that if you want be thought of as more than anyone else, rather than doing great things because they’re worth doing of themselves no matter who gets the credit, be careful about that. Certainly be wary of the motives of people who teach you to want that. Those are croc-infested waters, with lots of badness just below the surface.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

When some particular merchant makes it his strategy to sell you something with the idea that he or she is going to put you in a class above everybody else, though, watch out! That foolish vanity shows up in the price tag.

Uh, that’s not vanity. That’s just natural occurrence in business. If I were to forge you a finer sword because you commissioned more money in order to compensate for the work and materials, then obviously you are going to be put in a ‘class above everybody else’ because everybody else would rather prefer something easier (and thus, cheaper) to make unless they can make the same offer to make up for the same amount of trouble.

What does it profit the rich to have a fancier door to waltz through, as if it makes them better, as if it will make their investments more profitable?

I would think that the large dollar figures that big business manage to expand (or at least maintain) would be enough indication that a fancier door is the least of the concerns here.

Is that going to make them care about the poor? Is the rip-off on the other side of the fancy door going to help the poor? Let’s go ahead and doubt that. And why do you think I’m preaching simplicity to the poor? No, I’m preaching simplicity to those who are not poor! If they have money to give away, then why give it to someone who flatters them? Why not give it to people who actually do work for them, instead?

Because I think you don’t seem to understand just what kind of risk and expertise financial managers often juggle in a single work day. You think it’s a rip-off or something? What makes you think those people, who are wracking their brains trying analyze financial data, are not doing anyone any more hard work than the guy pulling up turnips?

 

[EasterJoy]

Uh, that’s not vanity. That’s just natural occurrence in business. If I were to forge you a finer sword because you commissioned more money in order to compensate for the work and materials, then obviously you are going to be put in a ‘class above everybody else’ because everybody else would rather prefer something easier (and thus, cheaper) to make unless they can make the same offer to make up for the same amount of trouble.

I would think that the large dollar figures that big business manage to expand (or at least maintain) would be enough indication that a fancier door is the least of the concerns here.

Because I think you don’t seem to understand just what kind of risk and expertise financial managers often juggle in a single work day. You think it’s a rip-off or something? What makes you think those people, who are wracking their brains trying analyze financial data, are not doing anyone any more hard work than the guy pulling up turnips?

Good grief. I don’t have anything against financial managers. I don’t have anything against quality merchandise, and I certainly don’t think it is a waste of money to pay extra for it. I am not even talking about refusing to do business with people who have glamorous ad campaigns or who put their businesses into fancy buildings. I am talking about being careful not to pay extra for services, merchandise or the sales pitch that does no more than flatter your vanity, when a little research might find you a financial manager in a less-glamorous building who works just as hard, does work that is just as good, and yet keeps his non-essential costs down and therefore can charge less.

If Calvin Klein really does make better underwear or polo shirts or whatever, I can live with having his name stamped on my clothing. I am saying, however, that it is wise to avoid paying extra when all you will have only the status of somebody’s famous name or the luxury of walking into a door that seems to give you more status than somebody else. Status sometimes does not cost anything extra, but it usually does. It is worth being aware of that.

IOW, I don’t resent the people who are invited to walk through the fancier door or begrudge them the fancy invitation they’re getting. A door is a door is a door, and nothing to envy. I simply invite them to beware that the invitation may have strings attached.

 

[EasterJoy]

A lot of judgments are being made based on the OP’s already very biased viewpoint. Why the snarkiness? Do the “rich” actually “waltz” through that “fancy door?” Or do people who need help managing their savings, perhaps saved over the course of a lifetime, and who drive up in an older used car, wearing used chinos, simply WALK up to the door where they are going to get that help? I think you might be surprised by the millionaire next door, frankly. Not all of them live in gated communities and drive a Lexus or a Land Rover.

Your rhetoric is showing, EasterJoy. You are painting people with a barn-sized brush. You have no idea who those customers are or might be, but you’re willing to decide that they are 1) being ripped off by the bank which is playing to their vanity and 2) probably didn’t get their wealth honestly.

Unfair assessments all around.

Did I say that everyone with a big bank account gives a fig about whether their bank has a fancy door or not? I did not!

The truth is, however, is that there are people with a lot of money who would tell the OP the same thing about a bank that sucks up to the rich as what I am saying! Some of the rich are fooled into making too much of surface vanities like that, but the ones with really financial savvy don’t think that way. They drive a Land Rover when they are in the habit of driving places that require a Land Rover, but OTOH they are perfectly happy with a less-expensive ride when a less expensive ride will do. That is why they get to have a lot of money; they don’t spend it on things they don’t need. The ones who are wise with their money do not care one way or the other about how Chase or any other bank flatters their wealth or their ego, but about whether or not Chase is offering their financial services at a fair price. Still…Chase has to pay money to flatter egos, and let’s be very sure that Chase doesn’t plan to pick up that tab in the end. They want to make that investment back.

I’m saying that a fancy door for one “class” of customers is trying to flatter somebody. That strategy is worthy of suspicion, that’s all I’m saying.

 

[EasterJoy]

… I think you might be surprised by the millionaire next door, frankly. Not all of them live in gated communities and drive a Lexus or a Land Rover…

You seem to think I don’t know any millionaires. As it turns out, I do.

I also unfortunately know people who are driving a Lexus they can’t afford, which is a sad thing. I can understand that fine cars really do offer a fine driving experience, but the desire for status can be a real trap. I suppose there are places where driving a certain car is practically a part of the required business attire, but other than that, if you’re going to drive a really expensive car, it ought to be out of truly disposable income, and after you’ve done your part for those who are not so fortunate as you are…“it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle,”, after all. Gotta keep those red letters first.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I don’t know, EasterJoy. You just have this…tone…you keep using words like “fancy” when it isn’t necessary. You seem to think that it’s just rich people who need wealth management services. Well, anyone with an estate would need that, no matter how small it might currently be. Anyone who really doesn’t want to fork over up to 55% of their worldly goods, which have already been taxed during their lifetimes, upon their death, would need that wealth management department to help them structure their accounts and do some legal planning so that their heirs can actually benefit from all their hard work.

The OP is the one making the judgment about the door. Can you see that he’s hardly objective here? So 2 main departments share a building. They each have a door. The rest is all his interpretation, which I am beginning to think you might share.

In any case, I’m done here.

 

[EasterJoy]

I don’t know, EasterJoy. You just have this…tone…you keep using words like “fancy” when it isn’t necessary. You seem to think that it’s just rich people who need wealth management services. Well, anyone with an estate would need that, no matter how small it might currently be. Anyone who really doesn’t want to fork over up to 55% of their worldly goods, which have already been taxed during their lifetimes, upon their death, would need that wealth management department to help them structure their accounts and do some legal planning so that their heirs can actually benefit from all their hard work.

The OP is the one making the judgment about the door. Can you see that he’s hardly objective here? So 2 main departments share a building. They each have a door. The rest is all his interpretation, which I am beginning to think you might share.

In any case, I’m done here.

Someone is a little touchy, here, perhaps? I said fancy…not baroque, not disgusting, not unbelievably ornate, not jewel-encrusted, just “fancy”. The bar for reaching “fancy” is pretty low, in my book. Sure, I’m saying that people who do manual labor ought to get a fair wage, too, and should be considered just as dignified as anyone else, but surely you have no quarrel with that. Why on earth are you taking my comments as if I were making some kind of call for an uprising of the proletariat?

The OP is the one who said the “kind of offensive” door was literally marked for “high wealth” individuals, not me. The OP is the one who reported that the two doors are conspicuously different, with the nicer door being specified as the door for the wealthy. OK, so you know the building, you’ve seen it, and you disagree? Or are you just flatly calling the OP a liar without ever having seen the building in question? Or are you saying that you know that the OP is mistaken in their impression? If Chase did not intend for the architecture of their building to give that impression, they failed with regards to one potential client. I can say that much without seeing it, provided the OP is not a tr**l, which I doubt.

BTW, federal estate taxes currently apply to estates of over $5 million (I think it is around $5.25 for 2013), and the estate tax is only on the amount that exceeds that. Some states, including mine, have estate taxes on amounts over $1 million per person, but most states have no estate tax at all and as far as I know the highest state estate tax is 16%. The top marginal federal rate is 40%, but that applies to the portion of the estate over a certain amount, not the entire estate. I’m not saying whatsoever that an estate tax of any kind does not present a huge concern to family farmers and even business owners of relatively small concerns, but nobody is forking over 55% of their worldly possessions to the government. IOW, yes, there are many people who have estates of a size that is not remotely in any danger of getting so large that they will lose a single dollar to estate taxes, no matter how long they live, and they are wealthy enough to retire comfortably. Whether they “need” the services of an estate planner or not is an argument I will leave between you and Jane Bryant Quinn. We use one…a nice guy, I like him. I don’t know if he adds enough to our returns to cover the cost of his services, but on no account do I think the guy is ripping us off. The only question is whether or not he can give us a return to cover what he needs to charge to cover reasonable compensation for his own time. After all, if we were to remodel our house with the hopes of gaining a greater profit on resale, but lost money on the venture, that would not mean that our remodeling guys ripped us off, either! It would only mean that we may have been smarter with our money by selling the house as it was.

As for me, I’m only saying that glamor in advertisement ought to set off a little alarm chime in the minds of those of us who would like to preserve our estates for our children, no matter how big the estate is. We should not worry one bit if nobody who does business with us tries to impress us with the building or the entrance they provide for us. It is not wrong for them to do it, but nothing could be less important and if we’re wise we won’t want to pay extra for it. That’s all. Why this opinion makes me some enemy of the rich, I have no idea, since most rich people I know–that is, people who can expect Uncle Sam to get a very big handout when they die–would say the same thing! Ross Perot would say the same thing…do you think he has something against the rich, too?