Would you get a vaccine against HIV/AIDS?

[PaulGH]

There has been some vigorous discussion of vaccines on the “Compromising with wife” thread, and that got me to thinking about vaccines.

One childhood vaccine recommendation that I never really understood is the Hepatitis B vaccine, which is recommended in the U.S. for newborns, if I am not mistaken. But my understanding of Hepatitis B is that it can be transmitted only through bodily fluids – e.g., through blood transfusions, sexual intercourse, etc. – similar to how HIV/AIDS is transmitted. So it never made sense to me why this vaccine is recommended for all newborns, since pre-adolescent children would seem to be at very low risk for this disease.

So I would like to propose a thought experiment: What if there were an FDA-approved vaccine for HIV/AIDS? Suppose that such a vaccine existed, and that doctors and medical associations began to recommend it for all children and at least for high-risk adults. Would you get the vaccine for yourself? And would you agree to have your children vaccinated?

I think that these are interesting questions, because on the one hand, AIDS is a terrible disease with no cure. But on the other hand, most of us probably don’t worry about getting AIDS because you are unlikely to get if you avoid certain high-risk activities.

For those of you who do vaccinate your children (even if you don’t do all vaccines, or if you do them on a slower schedule than recommended), I would be interested in your take on these questions.

(For myself, I would not get an AIDS vaccine, and I tend to think that I would not get it for my kids either.)

 

[FrenzyJen]

The logic that I heard being tossed around for the HPV vaccine applies to this as well, I think, that even if you are a stand-up person, you can’t guarantee that your spouse will always be. One indiscretion “on the side” and you can be infected.

So there’s that.

But I personally feel that’s a horribly negative way of looking at a marriage. In the imaginary world of my husband cheating on me, I want him to know that he is accountable for what he brings home to me. Perhaps in that event, the guilt of cheating plus the guilt of giving me a horrible disease would help his repentance process.

Maybe that’s also negative too though.

Either way, I trust him too much for it to be a serious thought in my head.

I supposed rape is always a possibility.

I don’t know. The vaccine would have to be available for a long time before I would consider it at all, to see what outcomes or effects it may have. Guardasil was pushed far too soon after being developed, IMO

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

First of all, let’s assume that this vaccine was properly tested and we are pretty sure it has a low occurrence of side effects.

That said, yes I would get it. As a minority I am in a higher risk group (statisticaly) and it would also be me doing my part in fighting this virus too. If the opportunity to build “herd immunity” against HIV becomes real, then that would be the first step to reducing its reach. Additionally, exposure to bodily fluids is not limited illicit drug use or sex. For instance, what about helping an accident victim and accidentally suffering a small cut in the process?

 

[Kelfa28]

The thing about Hep B is that there are studies out there that state that the Hep B virus can be found on inanimate objects for up to a week…even without the presence of blood cells.

Given the amount of touching children do, especially toddlers and infants, I tend to be cautious and do vaccinate my children against Hep B at birth. I think about the playground equipment, grocery store carriages and other objects that the general public has access to. We wash our hands often and I do carry antibacterial wash with me…but not always.

I’m not okay about exposing my children to HPV vaccines. In all seriousness, I’d rather not. I don’t like the idea of vaccinating my children against a purely sexually transmitted disease. I might as well give them the Pill at the end of the day.

HIV is the same deal. I wouldn’t vaccinate myself or my children against it. I’m already highly annoyed and openly complain that…despite being married…I’m subject to HIV testing because I’m in the military. I’d probably have no choice but to get the HIV vaccine if it becomes available because the military basically requires us to have everything….regardless of how we feel about it.

I have one exception to this rule. If the CDC changes their rules about blood donations and allows gay men to donate…I’d get the HIV vaccine and give it to my children…for that protection alone.

 

[Book_Worm]

When DH was a police officer, he got a call that an older man he knew well from town had fallen at a shopping center. The man had hit his head and, as with many head wounds, was bleeding profusely. This was fairly early on in the AIDS story, when protective gloves were not the norm. DH said something prompted him to don gloves, although it wasn’t his normal procedure. The man was a very solid citizen, not one to take drugs or stray from his marriage vows.

We later learned that the man had died from AIDS, which he contracted from a tainted blood transfusion during surgery.

Later on, he had more than one HIV-positive spit on him, as did many PO’s, hoping to spread the virus.

Barring any negative side effects, I think protecting yourself with a vaccination is always a good idea.

 

[Joe_5859]

The thing about Hep B is that there are studies out there that state that the Hep B virus can be found on inanimate objects for up to a week…even without the presence of blood cells.

Given the amount of touching children do, especially toddlers and infants, I tend to be cautious and do vaccinate my children against Hep B at birth. I think about the playground equipment, grocery store carriages and other objects that the general public has access to. We wash our hands often and I do carry antibacterial wash with me…but not always.

I’m not okay about exposing my children to HPV vaccines. In all seriousness, I’d rather not. I don’t like the idea of vaccinating my children against a purely sexually transmitted disease. I might as well give them the Pill at the end of the day.

HIV is the same deal. I wouldn’t vaccinate myself or my children against it. I’m already highly annoyed and openly complain that…despite being married…I’m subject to HIV testing because I’m in the military. I’d probably have no choice but to get the HIV vaccine if it becomes available because the military basically requires us to have everything….regardless of how we feel about it.

I have one exception to this rule. If the CDC changes their rules about blood donations and allows gay men to donate…I’d get the HIV vaccine and give it to my children…for that protection alone.

I’m with you on the distinction between Hep B and HPV. The former, I understand the use for. The latter, I do not.

So I think I’d look at an HIV vaccine the same way as the HPV. If someone could convince me that there was a legitimate benefit to the public good (e.g. “herd immunity”) or that there was some risk to contract the disease via means other than immoral sexual behavior and drug use, then I would consider it. Otherwise, what is the point?

I didn’t realize the CDC had such a rule regarding blood donors. Even if they changed it, wouldn’t they screen the donations ahead of time so that infected blood wasn’t used? That seems like something they would be doing now anyway.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

I’m not okay about exposing my children to HPV vaccines. In all seriousness, I’d rather not. I don’t like the idea of vaccinating my children against a purely sexually transmitted disease. I might as well give them the Pill at the end of the day.

HIV is the same deal. I wouldn’t vaccinate myself or my children against it.

Given that the jury is still out on the safety of it I understand the reluctance over the HPV vaccine. But why wouldn’t you want to limit the chance of certain consequences of their mistakes? (If the vaccine was relatively safe)

 

[pensmama87]

I’m with you on the distinction between Hep B and HPV. The former, I understand the use for. The latter, I do not.

So I think I’d look at an HIV vaccine the same way as the HPV. If someone could convince me that there was a legitimate benefit to the public good (e.g. “herd immunity”) or that there was some risk to contract the disease via means other than immoral sexual behavior and drug use, then I would consider it. Otherwise, what is the point?

I didn’t realize the CDC had such a rule regarding blood donors. Even if they changed it, wouldn’t they screen the donations ahead of time so that infected blood wasn’t used? That seems like something they would be doing now anyway.

IIRC they do screen all blood anyway, but when you donate the organization collecting blood does pre-screening to determine if you are a good candidate. Men who have sex from men are currently not eligible to donate blood because they are a high-risk population for HIV (I’m not sure if there is a time limit or ever in their case). Same for people who have travelled abroad in certain areas or who have gotten piercings or tattoos within a certain time frame before donation.

I actually wasn’t aware that restrictions on donations were at the CDC level, but just regulations by the Red Cross or other agencies that did collections. It makes sense for them to be standardized, though.

I don’t know if I would get the vaccine or not. It’s a pretty devastating disease if not treated, and expensive to treat. I elected not to get the HPV vaccine (it had just come out and I was about to age out of the recommended age group for it - which I still don’t understand ). I don’t think my risk for HPV or HIV is very high.

I just don’t know for the kids. Our pediatrician’s office pushes HPV vaccines for both boys and girls starting at 12, so it’s a situation I’m going to have to face eventually.

 

[EasterJoy]

I believe in epidemiology. If I get a flu vaccine, for instance, I am not just less likely to get influenza. I am less likely to get it and then unknowingly give it to someone else.

Yes, I’d get my children vaccinated if I were satisfied that the vaccine had been reasonably tested for safety and effectiveness. We got them vaccinated for HPV. Let us say, as an example, that my son is as pure as driven snow. He gets married. His wife, as it turns out, is not as pure as driven snow. He gets HPV. Let us say that he never has symptoms and the HPV never bothers him. He doesn’t even know he has it. But let us also say that his first attempt at marriage was invalid. He attempts again, and after marriage he gives his wife, this time a woman who is as pure as driven snow, the virus that he had been carrying around without even knowing it. She gets cervical cancer and dies or is rendered infertile by the cancer surgery. Preventable, as it turns out, if his parents had gotten him a vaccine when he was 11.

If epidemiologists are advocating for a vaccine, I listen. I don’t automatically sign on the dotted line, but I don’t ever assume “I can’t get it.” Whatever it is, yes, you can get it. More to the point, you can get it and then give it to someone who didn’t have the opportunity to be protected by the vaccine you turned down. Maybe it isn’t that likely, but I buy fire insurance and wear seatbelts every day, as inconvenient as it is, because it makes sense to do small things as a precaution against terrible things.

 

[QuestLove]

There has been some vigorous discussion of vaccines on the “Compromising with wife” thread, and that got me to thinking about vaccines.

One childhood vaccine recommendation that I never really understood is the Hepatitis B vaccine, which is recommended in the U.S. for newborns, if I am not mistaken. But my understanding of Hepatitis B is that it can be transmitted only through bodily fluids – e.g., through blood transfusions, sexual intercourse, etc. – similar to how HIV/AIDS is transmitted. So it never made sense to me why this vaccine is recommended for all newborns, since pre-adolescent children would seem to be at very low risk for this disease.

So I would like to propose a thought experiment: What if there were an FDA-approved vaccine for HIV/AIDS? Suppose that such a vaccine existed, and that doctors and medical associations began to recommend it for all children and at least for high-risk adults. Would you get the vaccine for yourself? And would you agree to have your children vaccinated?

I think that these are interesting questions, because on the one hand, AIDS is a terrible disease with no cure. But on the other hand, most of us probably don’t worry about getting AIDS because you are unlikely to get if you avoid certain high-risk activities.

For those of you who do vaccinate your children (even if you don’t do all vaccines, or if you do them on a slower schedule than recommended), I would be interested in your take on these questions.

(For myself, I would not get an AIDS vaccine, and I tend to think that I would not get it for my kids either.)

I would, in a heartbeat.
I do not have a high risk lifestyle but just in the rare case that I am compromised I would.
And I would for my kids, who knows some of them may end up in the medical field.
I honestly hope a r cure becomes available especially for those many children who are born everyday with such an awful disease.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

Yes, I would. It can be spread other ways…I’m a teacher and if I were helping an infected student in a medical emergency, it could be transferred to me through a cut or if blood got in my eye. There is lower likelihood if I am wearing gloves, but why not be extra cautious?

 

[phil19034]

Given that the jury is still out on the safety of it I understand the reluctance over the HPV vaccine. But why wouldn’t you want to limit the chance of certain consequences of their mistakes? (If the vaccine was relatively safe)

If a HPV vaccine was proved to be practically 100% safe, I would have my kids receive it (not as newborns). Reason, you can receive HPV from kissing.

Regarding a possible HIV vaccine… if it was 100% safe I would be in favor of it becoming a “standard” vaccine that doctors give children. Reason: that’s how disease is eliminated. But never mandatory (same with HPV).

As far as getting the HIV vaccine myself… I would only so if I saw a stranger bleeding, I could help them without being worried about getting HIV (but I would need to know that the vaccine would be practically 100% safe).

Now, with all this said… I don’t know if the HPV vaccine is safe yet.

atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/08/12/family-12-year-old-daughter-died-hours-after-getting-hpv-vaccine/

 

[QuestLove]

I hope they are getting closer.
I know in many developing countries, they automatically test pregnant women for HIV at the hospitals and if you are positive they give you that drug that lowers the likelihood of mother to child transmission.

 

[Kelfa28]

Given that the jury is still out on the safety of it I understand the reluctance over the HPV vaccine. But why wouldn’t you want to limit the chance of certain consequences of their mistakes? (If the vaccine was relatively safe)

For relatively the same reason why I wouldn’t put my daughters on the pill or hand my son a pack of condoms when he brings home his first girlfriend.

I understand what HPV is. It’s the most highly transferable sexually transmitted disease we know of. More people have HPV then any other STD that we are aware of. But I couldn’t vaccinate them as a precursor to whatever their lifestyle may be. That is not what I plan to teach them.

However, Easter Joy’s comments are spot on:

Yes, I’d get my children vaccinated if I were satisfied that the vaccine had been reasonably tested for safety and effectiveness. We got them vaccinated for HPV. Let us say, as an example, that my son is as pure as driven snow. He gets married. His wife, as it turns out, is not as pure as driven snow. He gets HPV. Let us say that he never has symptoms and the HPV never bothers him. He doesn’t even know he has it. But let us also say that his first attempt at marriage was invalid. He attempts again, and after marriage he gives his wife, this time a woman who is as pure as driven snow, the virus that he had been carrying around without even knowing it. She gets cervical cancer and dies or is rendered infertile by the cancer surgery. Preventable, as it turns out, if his parents had gotten him a vaccine when he was 11.

Hubby and I were discussing this thread a few minutes ago and as I was reasoning why I wouldn’t vaccinate my children against HPV…this thought came into my head.

It would also be an arguably good reason to vaccinate against HIV. You can make a reasonable effort to teach your children and impress on them the importance of staying pure until marriage…you cannot do the same for their future spouses.

 

[Lorelei12]

I believe in epidemiology. If I get a flu vaccine, for instance, I am not just less likely to get influenza. I am less likely to get it and then unknowingly give it to someone else.

Yes, I’d get my children vaccinated if I were satisfied that the vaccine had been reasonably tested for safety and effectiveness. We got them vaccinated for HPV. Let us say, as an example, that my son is as pure as driven snow. He gets married. His wife, as it turns out, is not as pure as driven snow. He gets HPV. Let us say that he never has symptoms and the HPV never bothers him. He doesn’t even know he has it. But let us also say that his first attempt at marriage was invalid. He attempts again, and after marriage he gives his wife, this time a woman who is as pure as driven snow, the virus that he had been carrying around without even knowing it. She gets cervical cancer and dies or is rendered infertile by the cancer surgery. Preventable, as it turns out, if his parents had gotten him a vaccine when he was 11.

If epidemiologists are advocating for a vaccine, I listen. I don’t automatically sign on the dotted line, but I don’t ever assume “I can’t get it.” Whatever it is, yes, you can get it. More to the point, you can get it and then give it to someone who didn’t have the opportunity to be protected by the vaccine you turned down. Maybe it isn’t that likely, but I buy fire insurance and wear seatbelts every day, as inconvenient as it is, because it makes sense to do small things as a precaution against terrible things.

Yep, all of this. So long as the HIV vaccine had been tested thoroughly I’d probably get it, and would have my kids get it too. I plan to have my son and any other children we have vaccinated for HPV, when the time comes, precisely because of everything EasterJoy has written here.

 

[Coatimundi]

I have one exception to this rule. If the CDC changes their rules about blood donations and allows gay men to donate…I’d get the HIV vaccine and give it to my children…for that protection alone.

I just wanted to make a minor correction. The FDA, not the CDC, regulates blood banks in the US and it is the FDA’s regulation which forbids blood banks from accepting donations from men who have ever had sex with other men.

As for an HIV vaccine, I wouldn’t feel any special need for it. The risk factors for HIV are largely the same as for Hepatitis B. I don’t work in health care or emergency services. I am not sexually active, and that is very unlikely to change. I am also very unlikely to inject myself with illegal drugs. I am very unlikely to get a tattoo. I am very unlikely to travel to a foreign country, where medical standards may be more lax.

I have been vaccinated for Hep B (due to previous employment requirements.) I am glad for it, since a little extra protection isn’t a bad thing. For that reason, I wouldn’t reject an HIV vaccine. I simply would be unlikely to seek it out.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I’m not okay about exposing my children to HPV vaccines. In all seriousness, I’d rather not. I don’t like the idea of vaccinating my children against a purely sexually transmitted disease. I might as well give them the Pill at the end of the day.

HIV is the same deal. I wouldn’t vaccinate myself or my children against it. I’m already highly annoyed and openly complain that…despite being married…I’m subject to HIV testing because I’m in the military. I’d probably have no choice but to get the HIV vaccine if it becomes available because the military basically requires us to have everything….regardless of how we feel about it.

I have one exception to this rule. If the CDC changes their rules about blood donations and allows gay men to donate…I’d get the HIV vaccine and give it to my children…for that protection alone.

How sad. No one, and I mean no one, is too good to get HPV, Hep B, or HIV.

The first time that AIDS became “real” for me was when I was 12 years old at church camp. On the last night, one of the counselors told us that she had a story that she wanted to share-but that it was graphic and emotional, so if we wanted to we could go back to our cabins. I chose to stay and listen.

This woman worked with deaf kids who were in the foster care system. She signed for them in court, with police officers, etc. One night as she was leaving work she was approached by a man in the parking lot. Initially, he seemed very confused, so she tried to help him. He raped her. This was a very devout, married Christian woman. She was in her 40’s, and not dressed in a way that was “asking for it”. He was apprehended, charged, and convicted. Sometime during the court proceedings, it came out that he was HIV positive. She didn’t think that she was at any risk, but she chose to get tested. It turns out, she did have HIV-and she had already put her husband at serious risk too.

She actually met with her rapist in prison, and eventually forgave him. She went on to work with deaf rape and assault victims. When I met her in the 90’s, she had to take handfulls of pills every day. I have no idea if she is still alive, but I hope she is.

Other ways that your kids could contract AIDS without having sex, although sex is a good way, include: an unfaithful spouse, receiving medical care in a less developed country (you never know where life will take your children), rape, making a stupid decision to let someone at a party give them a tattoo or piercing (even just ears), or working in a medical environment and being too lax about universal precautions. Your children could be perfect angels and still end up saddled with a terrible, painful, and ultimately lethal disease. You would deny them protection against it just to make a point about premarital sex?

I have said this before and I will say it again:

If your children believe that your steps to protect them from bad choices (or bad luck) equal a blank check to do whatever they want sexually, then you have failed as a parent. You haven’t failed because they went against your values, you failed because they clearly had no idea what your values are.

And for the record, HPV can be spread orally too, and that doesn’t just mean kissing. Sharing drinks and lipgloss can spread HPV, and two decades later that HPV can be spread to the spouse on the wedding night.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I just wanted to make a minor correction. The FDA, not the CDC, regulates blood banks in the US and it is the FDA’s regulation which forbids blood banks from accepting donations from men who have ever had sex with other men.

It also prevents blood banks from accepting donates from women who have had sex with men who have had sex with men.

Here’s the tricky part: How would I as a woman know that? I do know that my ex fiance is gay, and I don’t believe that he was ever unfaithful. But what if he was? How could I know that? How does any donor, regardless of gender or sexual orientation, know for sure what their partner may have exposed them to?

The lifetime bans are irresponsible and not supported by medical science. Countless medical groups including the American Medical Association have called on the FDA to lift the ban. A one-year waiting period is really all that is necessary to detect the disease.

But all of that aside, if you’re really concerned about gay men donating blood, why wouldn’t you get vaccinated yourself? After all, no lie detector test is required prior to donating.

 

[QuestLove]

Here’s a question I have.
How do they prove that you are an MSM before donating blood? I can get how they can bar you from donating if you have tattoos (some tattoos are visible) but how will they bar you if you do not disclose that you are a male who has sex with other male?

 

[OraLabora]

How sad. No one, and I mean no one, is too good to get HPV, Hep B, or HIV.

The first time that AIDS became “real” for me was when I was 12 years old at church camp. On the last night, one of the counselors told us that she had a story that she wanted to share-but that it was graphic and emotional, so if we wanted to we could go back to our cabins. I chose to stay and listen.

This woman worked with deaf kids who were in the foster care system. She signed for them in court, with police officers, etc. One night as she was leaving work she was approached by a man in the parking lot. Initially, he seemed very confused, so she tried to help him. He raped her. This was a very devout, married Christian woman. She was in her 40’s, and not dressed in a way that was “asking for it”. He was apprehended, charged, and convicted. Sometime during the court proceedings, it came out that he was HIV positive. She didn’t think that she was at any risk, but she chose to get tested. It turns out, she did have HIV-and she had already put her husband at serious risk too.

She actually met with her rapist in prison, and eventually forgave him. She went on to work with deaf rape and assault victims. When I met her in the 90’s, she had to take handfulls of pills every day. I have no idea if she is still alive, but I hope she is.

Other ways that your kids could contract AIDS without having sex, although sex is a good way, include: an unfaithful spouse, receiving medical care in a less developed country (you never know where life will take your children), rape, making a stupid decision to let someone at a party give them a tattoo or piercing (even just ears), or working in a medical environment and being too lax about universal precautions. Your children could be perfect angels and still end up saddled with a terrible, painful, and ultimately lethal disease. You would deny them protection against it just to make a point about premarital sex?

I have said this before and I will say it again:

If your children believe that your steps to protect them from bad choices (or bad luck) equal a blank check to do whatever they want sexually, then you have failed as a parent. You haven’t failed because they went against your values, you failed because they clearly had no idea what your values are.

And for the record, HPV can be spread orally too, and that doesn’t just mean kissing. Sharing drinks and lipgloss can spread HPV, and two decades later that HPV can be spread to the spouse on the wedding night.

^This,

It’s nonsense to think that consensual sex is the only way to get infected. A famous doctor in my part of the world was infected when she performed surgery on an infected patient on a humanitarian mission in Africa and accidentally nicked herself. This was before HIV had any form of treatment and she died.

The sexual stigma needs to be removed from this disease. It is a viral infections disease and should be dealt with like any other. It’s a public health issue first and foremost.