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Seamus_L
Guest
You ended up moving to an area where their were no Eastern Rite Catholic churches within a reasonable driving distance.
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HailMary
Guest
Allegiance has nothing to do location. What I would do is ask my Bishop and the Bishop of the Orthodox diocese if I can celebrate the Divine Liturgy and the Holy Mysteries (Sacraments) with them.
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Alexius
Guest
That’s actually a tough question. Do you stay in communion with Rome as a Latin, or do you stay true to your Eastern faith as an Orthodox…
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Aramis
Guest
Depends upon if there are Roman parishes nearby as well.
But, say I wind up teaching in a village with no catholic churches… but a Russian Orthodox parish is present. If I didn’t attend liturgies, I’d not be accepted in to the life of the village. Reception would be at the whims of the priest. I’d definitely ask for permission for confession and absolution, and likely would be granted them. Communion reception is iffy, but in my experience, at least in the villages, not a matter made issue of; if you look, sound, speak and act Orthodox, they consider you orthodox.
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East_and_West
Guest
Are you suggesting that the Eastern and Roman faiths are different?That’s actually a tough question. Do you stay in communion with Rome as a Latin, or do you stay true to your Eastern faith as an Orthodox…
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Seamus_L
Guest
I’m sorry, I meant to ask if you had to choose between attending a Roman Catholic Church and an Orthodox one, which would you go to ?
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Alexius
Guest
Ummm…not necessarily…but there are differences. For instance, I don’t ever hear of indulgences or the treasury of merits in the Eastern Catholic churches…There is a difference between ideal belief and actual belief. I think many of the Easterners, including myself, are prone to the latter…
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
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mgy100
Guest
The answer may be; if your church is that important to your life why would you move to an area where you didn’t have access to say a Byzantine Rite sui juris Catholic Church in the first place? I know a million excuses could be given. But seriously, what do you place first, God or the earthly things. I would take a job where I made less money but could be near an Eastern Orthodox church instead of taking a job where I made more money but didn’t have an Eastern Orthodox church nearby. Why? The answer is obvious.
Many Greek/Byzantine Catholics that move away indeed attend Roman Catholic parishes if they don’t have a parish of byzantine rite sui juris-ness. I know for a fact that even in some places they’ve waited until there were enough of them in an area and built missions.
So if you were solid in your say, UGCC and moved where there wasn’t any Byzantine Rite sui juris Churches, you wouldn’t simply go join the Orthodox Church. While you can attend you won’t be able to commune.
Communion bonds the church together, everyone partakes in the body and blood of Christ, shares from the same Chalice. Communing also means that you are saying in public that you accept every teaching of the church.
So to become Orthodox you would have to do so for reasons that were deeper than the fact you didn’t have a Byzantine Catholic Church nearby.
And if you just attended the Orthodox Church you wouldn’t be partaking in the Sacramental life of the church, both the Byzantine Catholic Church or the Eastern Orthodox Church. This is not good for you spiritually.
So, perhaps the best thing to do IS to attend the Roman Catholic Church if you can’t find s UGCC, Ruthenian, etc… Catholic Church. That way you can participate in the Sacramental life of your church and not cut yourself off from it and suffer spiritually.
Full participation in the communal life that Christianity is requires
participation in Sacraments, which are communal, and bond that community together.
That is far more important than saying you wouldn’t want to go to a Roman Church because you don’t like the music, music doesn’t save your mortal soul. Theosis and participating in the sacraments of your church, uniting yourself to the Body of Christ, which is the church (and we are the church as well, through Christ, and what brings us together as one, the Sacraments) these are vastly more important than simply not wanting to attend because of a person distaste or unease about how an non-Byzantine Rite sui juris church conducts its liturgical services.
As stated above, if you did indeed wish to join the Orthodox Church you would have to more or less do so because of deeper reasons than simply not having access to a UGCC or Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church. Truthfully, I can’t speak for any priest, but I can’t imagine them encouraging you to join an Eastern Orthodox parish simply for that reason (you moved and can’t get to a Byzantine Catholic parish because the nearest one is two hours away or something).
I only wished more people would have stayed near their parishes, no matter what side of the fence you are on. So many people moved away that once strong communities now are so thin they don’t have the active ministries and so forth, bible studies, etc… social events… because there aren’t enough people. They are missed and all the people that moved away left a lot of people behind and only a skeleton remains of a once robust community.
Many Greek/Byzantine Catholics that move away indeed attend Roman Catholic parishes if they don’t have a parish of byzantine rite sui juris-ness. I know for a fact that even in some places they’ve waited until there were enough of them in an area and built missions.
So if you were solid in your say, UGCC and moved where there wasn’t any Byzantine Rite sui juris Churches, you wouldn’t simply go join the Orthodox Church. While you can attend you won’t be able to commune.
Communion bonds the church together, everyone partakes in the body and blood of Christ, shares from the same Chalice. Communing also means that you are saying in public that you accept every teaching of the church.
So to become Orthodox you would have to do so for reasons that were deeper than the fact you didn’t have a Byzantine Catholic Church nearby.
And if you just attended the Orthodox Church you wouldn’t be partaking in the Sacramental life of the church, both the Byzantine Catholic Church or the Eastern Orthodox Church. This is not good for you spiritually.
So, perhaps the best thing to do IS to attend the Roman Catholic Church if you can’t find s UGCC, Ruthenian, etc… Catholic Church. That way you can participate in the Sacramental life of your church and not cut yourself off from it and suffer spiritually.
Full participation in the communal life that Christianity is requires
participation in Sacraments, which are communal, and bond that community together.
That is far more important than saying you wouldn’t want to go to a Roman Church because you don’t like the music, music doesn’t save your mortal soul. Theosis and participating in the sacraments of your church, uniting yourself to the Body of Christ, which is the church (and we are the church as well, through Christ, and what brings us together as one, the Sacraments) these are vastly more important than simply not wanting to attend because of a person distaste or unease about how an non-Byzantine Rite sui juris church conducts its liturgical services.
As stated above, if you did indeed wish to join the Orthodox Church you would have to more or less do so because of deeper reasons than simply not having access to a UGCC or Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church. Truthfully, I can’t speak for any priest, but I can’t imagine them encouraging you to join an Eastern Orthodox parish simply for that reason (you moved and can’t get to a Byzantine Catholic parish because the nearest one is two hours away or something).
I only wished more people would have stayed near their parishes, no matter what side of the fence you are on. So many people moved away that once strong communities now are so thin they don’t have the active ministries and so forth, bible studies, etc… social events… because there aren’t enough people. They are missed and all the people that moved away left a lot of people behind and only a skeleton remains of a once robust community.
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Holly3278
Guest
I’m already a Roman Catholic so this will probably never be a problem for me but I am dating a Maronite Catholic and may switch to the Maronite rite myself in the future. That said, if this were ever a problem for me, I would not convert to the Orthodox church. I couldn’t deny Rome.
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ebed_melech
Guest
My family and I were faced with this as a possibility when my company asked me about a possible move to Tokyo. In Tokyo there are no Eastern Catholic churches, but there is a wonderful Franciscan parish in Roppongi as well as the Orthodox Metropolia of Tokyo. My own sense was that I would attend the Franciscan parish to receive our sacraments on Saturday evenings, but attend Vespers or Matins or Divine Liturgy on Sundays at the local Orthodox Cathedral. The other possibility is to receive permission to have Typica reader services in our home.
There was also the possibility of starting an Eastern Catholic mission…Japan is certainly missionary territory!
In the end, they decided not to move us there.
God bless!
Gordo
There was also the possibility of starting an Eastern Catholic mission…Japan is certainly missionary territory!
In the end, they decided not to move us there.
God bless!
Gordo
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JuanCarlos
Guest
I would never dare leave Rome, no matter what Sui Iuris Church I was a member of. To say you would rather attend a schismatic Orthodox Divine Liturgy over a licit Latin Rite Mass is to do what the Pharisees did- value your traditions over the essence of your religion
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Alexius
Guest
No offense, but it is easier said when you’re a Roman Catholic and used to the Latin rite. Many in the Eastern rites feel closer to their Orthodox brothers and sisters than their Latin siblings…The decision is not as easy…
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
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ebed_melech
Guest
Juan,
An Orthodox Divine Liturgy is not illicit. One can even receive permission from his Eastern Catholic bishop to both attend Orthodox services, and, with permission from the Orthodox bishop as well, receive the Sacred Mysteries in an Orthodox Church. For many of us, the Orthodox Church is our “Mother Church” to which, God willing, we will one day return when full communion is restored with Rome.
I think you should be more cautious about throwing out the accusation of Pharisaism, especially given the many opportunities you Latins have to attend worship according to the rite of your choice.
Also, even Pope John Paul the Great of blessed memory believed that “schism” was too strong a term to describe the separation between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches.
In ICXC,
Gordo
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Seamus_L
Guest
I could make a similar argument, and say if I was in an ultra-liberal RC diocese like say LA, and I couldn’t find a Latin Mass or at least a very reverantly celebrated English one, would I go Eastern Rite or SSPX ? Well if a UGCC, Maronite, Chaldean or Ruthenian parish was available it would be a no brainer, but if the only choice was Melkite, I’d probably go SSPX, though I’d at least give the Melkites a try first.
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
And you seem to say the pope is your father. Matthew 3:9, 23:9.
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chrisb
Guest
No, because I’m Roman Catholic and believe it to be the fullness of the faith.
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jimmy
Guest
Strangely the Latins don’t view their own tradition as expendable like they(at least you) view the eastern tradition.
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Oliviad
Guest
A Catholic is a Catholic, regardless of the Rite. I attend both the Latin Rite and the Byzantine Rite in my city, though I was confirmed in a Latin Rite Parish. If the supporters of the emperor of Byzantium hadn’t made such a big deal of Rites in the first place, all would still be Catholic as from the beginning.
A Maronite is every bit as Catholic as the Pope.
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jimmy
Guest
This could be reversed and said that if the ultramontanists didn’t wish to submit all eastern thought to western thought there would be no problems.
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ASimpleSinner
Guest
Explicate how
***“And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham for our father. For I tell you that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham.” ***and
"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." are pertinent, please.
Except to be provacative, I don’t see how on earth an Orthodox would feel comfortable lobbing Matt 23:9 at a Catholic the same way a Baptist/Pentecostal/Fundamentalist would.
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