Would you Lector at a service that wasn't suppose to be held?

[cknick]

In another thread we determined the weekday communion services should not be held at a church where they had all scheduled masses the Sunday before and the Sunday after, PLUS a 6:30 AM daily mass. If you were schedule to lector for this 8:30AM communion service held by the Deacon, would you? ( I’ve already notified the Deacon there are not suppose to be these services.)

 

[OhMalley]

In another thread we determined the weekday communion services should not be held at a church where they had all scheduled masses the Sunday before and the Sunday after, PLUS a 6:30 AM daily mass. If you were schedule to lector for this 8:30AM communion service held by the Deacon, would you? ( I’ve already notified the Deacon there are not suppose to be these services.)

There is NOTHING from the Church that prohibits communion services under the conditions stated – no matter what was “determined” on another CAF thread. You were out of line to notify “the Deacon there are not suppose to be these services.”

The choice is purely yours to make whether or not you attend and read.

 

[Corki]

There is NOTHING from the Church that prohibits communion services under the conditions stated – no matter what was “determined” on another CAF thread. You were out of line to notify “the Deacon there are not suppose to be these services.”

The choice is purely yours to make whether your attend and read.

The last time I looked, the USCCB is part of the Church and it says:

When daily Mass is scheduled in a parish, it is usually not appropriate to schedule a Liturgy of the Word with Distribution of Holy Communion. This rite is designed for “those who are prevented from being present at the community’s celebration.” When necessary, the scheduling of these celebrations should never detract from "the celebration of the Eucharist [as] the center of the entire Christian life."6 Such celebrations should never be seen as an equal choice with participation at Mass.

 

[OhMalley]

The last time I looked, the USCCB is part of the Church and it says:

When daily Mass is scheduled in a parish, it is usually not appropriate to schedule a Liturgy of the Word with Distribution of Holy Communion

As I said there is nothing from the Church that prohibits conducting a communion service with the information that was given. I think the would-be reader needs to take another look at why they have the 08:300 CS. If she does not feel it’s warranted then she is free not to attend. But because it’s nothing more than her opinion and because the CS is not prohibited to begin with, I question if it was appropriate of her to talk to the deacon in that manner.

 

[cknick]

As I said there is nothing from the Church that prohibits conducting a communion service with the information that was given. I think the would-be reader needs to take another look at why they have the 08:300 CS. If she does not feel it’s warranted then she is free not to attend. But because it’s nothing more than her opinion and because the CS is not prohibited to begin with, I question if it was appropriate of her to talk to the deacon in that manner.

I didn’t speak with the Deacon. I informed him through passing on the appropriate documentation which states the norms. Under remedies it stated that every Catholic has the responsibility to help when the church is in err.

 

[OhMalley]

I didn’t speak with the Deacon. I informed him through passing on the appropriate documentation which states the norms. Under remedies it stated that every Catholic has the responsibility to help when the church is in err.

That’s not what you said. You said:

"( I’ve already notified the Deacon there are not suppose to be these services.) "

And that’s NOT what the Church documents say. You interjected your personal opinion. It may very well be the case that your parish is doing absolutely nothing wrong by conducting an 8am CS.

 

[cknick]

Peerhaps, but at least I forwarded the church documents, right? I didn’t make it personal.

 

[jmjconder]

In another thread we determined the weekday communion services should not be held at a church where they had all scheduled masses the Sunday before and the Sunday after, PLUS a 6:30 AM daily mass. If you were schedule to lector for this 8:30AM communion service held by the Deacon, would you? ( I’ve already notified the Deacon there are not suppose to be these services.)

I would not.

I read the other long post regarding your other question cknick and refer to FrDavid96 answer as the best and most complete answer as to why Communion Services are not recommended during the week. I personally believe that Communion Services separates the sacrifice and the Sacrament.

Again I question why people are so attached to Communion Services? They are not official liturgy of the Church. If Mass cannot be said the more proper gathering would be for the faithful to say the Liturgy of the Hours…that is official Liturgy of the Church and Jesus is also present in the Word of God. I know not as par excellance…however He is still present.

 

[bpbasilphx]

All other things being equal, I would assume that any function in a parish church being led by a Deacon is being held with the direct authorization of the Bishop.

I’ve learned that for every law in the Church, there is at least one exception.

And NONE of the laws are ends in themselves. The salvation of souls IS an end in itself, yea, the only end in itself.

 

[jmjconder]

All other things being equal, I would assume that any function in a parish church being led by a Deacon is being held with the direct authorization of the Bishop.

I’ve learned that for every law in the Church, there is at least one exception.

And NONE of the laws are ends in themselves. The salvation of souls IS an end in itself, yea, the only end in itself.

Yes it would be ideal if all functions in a parish led by Deacons are held with the direct authorization of the Bishop. That is not always the case. I know first hand of a linked parish that had available three Masses on Ash Wednesday and the Deacon still held a Communion Service because the people “expected” it. The Bishop had not given his authorization for this ~ in fact when he learned of the long standing Communion services being held in this parish on a weekly bases ~ they were discontinued at his authorization.

I cannot agree with your statement about one exception to every law in the Church. If that were true then why bother have any laws?

 

[cknick]

All other things being equal, I would assume that any function in a parish church being led by a Deacon is being held with the direct authorization of the Bishop.

I’ve learned that for every law in the Church, there is at least one exception.

And NONE of the laws are ends in themselves. The salvation of souls IS an end in itself, yea, the only end in itself.

I agree, and because of the likely possibility of this, I prayed about it, asking God to not allow me to be lead into sin. When I arrived, the sacristan told me that there was a priest in town, who was asked by the Diocese to say the 8:30 mass at our parish, so all went well, and what a blessing it was! Thank you God!

 

[cknick]

BTW-Thank you FrDave096. It was through your assistance that a correction was made, and we had a mass instead of a communion service. Thank you. I still don’t know if I’ll be in trouble when the Pastor gets back though, so pray for me!

 

[JaMc]

We tried this in our parish once - we share a priest with a neighbouring parish, who, due to his health, is now only able to celebrate one Saturday evening Mass per week. The parishoners who used to come on Saturday decided, with the pastor’s permission, to have a “Scripture/Communion Service” on Saturday, when the Mass used to be held (I should add that then, as now, we have always had a regularly scheduled Mass on Sunday morning). A retired visiting priest learned about this, and promptly reported it to the vicar general, who, along with the Bishop, quickly put the kibosh on it. So, at least in our diocese (Boise), it is not allowed.

 

[benedictgal]

We tried this in our parish once - we share a priest with a neighbouring parish, who, due to his health, is now only able to celebrate one Saturday evening Mass per week. The parishoners who used to come on Saturday decided, with the pastor’s permission, to have a “Scripture/Communion Service” on Saturday, when the Mass used to be held (I should add that then, as now, we have always had a regularly scheduled Mass on Sunday morning). A retired visiting priest learned about this, and promptly reported it to the vicar general, who, along with the Bishop, quickly put the kibosh on it. So, at least in our diocese (Boise), it is not allowed.

It’s a good thing that the bishop nipped it in the bud. Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum says about the matter:

1. Particular Celebrations carried out in the Absence of a Priest
   [162.] On the day known as the Lord’s Day, the Church faithful gathers together to commemorate the Lord’s Resurrection and the whole Paschal Mystery, especially by the celebration of Mass.263 For “no Christian community is built up unless it is rooted in and hinges upon the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharist”.264 Hence it is the Christian people’s right to have the Eucharist celebrated for them on Sunday, and whenever holy days of obligation or other major feasts occur, and even daily insofar as this is possible. Therefore when it is difficult to have the celebration of Mass on a Sunday in a parish church or in another community of Christ’s faithful, the diocesan Bishop together with his Priests should consider appropriate remedies.265 Among such solutions will be that other Priests be called upon for this purpose, or that the faithful transfer to a church in a nearby place so as to participate in the Eucharistic mystery there.266

[163.] All Priests, to whom the Priesthood and the Eucharist are entrusted for the sake of others,267 should remember that they are enjoined to provide the faithful with the opportunity to satisfy the obligation of participating at Mass on Sundays.268 For their part, the lay faithful have the right, barring a case of real impossibility, that no Priest should ever refuse either to celebrate Mass for the people or to have it celebrated by another Priest if the people otherwise would not be able to satisfy the obligation of participating at Mass on Sunday or the other days of precept.

[164.] “If participation at the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible on account of the absence of a sacred minister or for some other grave cause”,269 then it is the Christian people’s right that the diocesan Bishop should provide as far as he is able for some celebration to be held on Sundays for that community under his authority and according to the Church’s norms. Sunday celebrations of this specific kind, however, are to be considered altogether extraordinary. All Deacons or lay members of Christ’s faithful who are assigned a part in such celebrations by the diocesan Bishop should strive “to keep alive in the community a genuine ‘hunger’ for the Eucharist, so that no opportunity for the celebration of Mass will ever be missed, also taking advantage of the occasional presence of a Priest who is not impeded by Church law from celebrating Mass”.270

[165.] It is necessary to avoid any sort of confusion between this type of gathering and the celebration of theEucharist.271 The diocesan Bishops, therefore, should prudently discern whether Holy Communion ought to be distributed in these gatherings. The matter would appropriately be determined in view of a more ample co-ordination in the Bishops’ Conference, to be put into effect after the recognitio of the acts by the Apostolic See through the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone. Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration.

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.

[167.] “Similarly, it is unthinkable on the Lord’s Day to substitute for Holy Mass either ecumenical celebrations of the Word or services of common prayer with Christians from the … Ecclesial Communities, or even participation in these Communities’ liturgical services”.272 Should the diocesan Bishop out of necessity authorize the participation of Catholics for a single occasion, let pastors take care lest confusion arise among the Catholic faithful concerning the necessity of taking part at Mass at another hour of the day even in such circumstances, on account of the obligation.273

I hope this helps to clarify things.

 

[cknick]

It’s a good thing that the bishop nipped it in the bud. Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum says about the matter:

I hope this helps to clarify things.

Thank you. This this was already quoted in another thread and I included in my request to review our current church practices. It helps to re-read it though, to improve clarity and understanding.

 

[johnnykins]

That’s not what you said. You said:

"( I’ve already notified the Deacon there are not suppose to be these services.) "

And that’s NOT what the Church documents say. You interjected your personal opinion. It may very well be the case that your parish is doing absolutely nothing wrong by conducting an 8am CS.

[edited] cknick did exactly the right thing, whether the actual language on this thread was used or not. I applaud cknick for opposing any sort of clericalism - it’s all the best from the Spirit of Vatican II.

 

[Augie1530]

This posting is as “CLEAR” as mud which Im beginning to think is about normal for this site would those who post please remember to clearify vague and unfamiliar concepts and abbreviations berfore posting so others will know your exact meanings … EXAMPLE “Liturgy of the Word” vs Daily Parish mass by the Priest/pastor

 

[bpbasilphx]

I agree, and because of the likely possibility of this, I prayed about it, asking God to not allow me to be lead into sin. When I arrived, the sacristan told me that there was a priest in town, who was asked by the Diocese to say the 8:30 mass at our parish, so all went well, and what a blessing it was! Thank you God!

Just why did you attend a service that you thought “wasn’t suppse [sic] to be held” or where you might “be lead [sic] into sin”?

 

[OhMalley]

Just why did you attend a service that you thought “wasn’t suppse [sic] to be held” or where you might “be lead [sic] into sin”?

LOL!! So very true. Maybe too much Valium?

It never amazes me to see these postings…

 

[OhMalley]

Take a Valium. cknick did exactly the right thing, whether the actual language on this thread was used or not. I applaud cknick for opposing any sort of clericalism - it’s all the best from the Spirit of Vatican II.

[Edited]
cknick’s actions were suspect at best. Language does make a difference – those of us with people skills are acutely aware of that.

This has nothing to do with “clericalism” or “the Spirit of Vatican II.” It has more to do with a reader looking to verify their personal feelins about a liturgical matter.