B
Brian777
Guest
AMEN brother! or sister! these are words of wisdom, and they are backed up by facts. Thankyou!
Would you like to see a phasing out of the Novus Ordo Missae leading to a return to only the TLM?
- Status
S
saint_rafael
Guest
I think the TLM will explode in the next couple of years and the New Mass will be phased out not by choice of the heirarchy, but because few people will attend it.
Priests who learn the TLM will finally understand what it means to be a true sacraficing priest. Once they get a taste of the sacred, why would they want to go back to bad liturgy? They will no longer be presiders, showmen, and the laity won’t infringe in the Mass and profane what belongs to the priesthood, which is the Mass.
People in my generation are flocking to the TLM. Catholics in their 20’s will be intrumental in phasing out the new Mass in the future. Years from now there will be a small demand for the new Mass and it will be attended by small populations of aging baby boomers and Gen. Xers, remnants of a sad and lost generations who will not be revelant after their cultural revolution collapses.
Priests who learn the TLM will finally understand what it means to be a true sacraficing priest. Once they get a taste of the sacred, why would they want to go back to bad liturgy? They will no longer be presiders, showmen, and the laity won’t infringe in the Mass and profane what belongs to the priesthood, which is the Mass.
People in my generation are flocking to the TLM. Catholics in their 20’s will be intrumental in phasing out the new Mass in the future. Years from now there will be a small demand for the new Mass and it will be attended by small populations of aging baby boomers and Gen. Xers, remnants of a sad and lost generations who will not be revelant after their cultural revolution collapses.
B
Brian777
Guest
q1: Yes i belive a liturgical reform process is commensing.
q2: Yes. i certainly hope so. that would grewatly help in the unification department, no to mention it would fix the theological blunders of the current form of the NO
q3: ALMIGHTY GOD WILLING! let’s pray His will provides for that joyous day, somewhere in our lifetimes!
B
Brian777
Guest
I think you are a glass half full kinda guy. I doubt it will be that quick or that obviuos. I think we are lookin at a good 50 years or more here. Thats almost how long it took for the TLM to come back and just begin to break the power block of the NO.
F
Freshman88
Guest
Yes I would like to see a phasing out of the Novus Ordo leading to a return of the TLM. Perhaps some elements of the NO should be salvaged, but overall I think there should be a return to the TLM.
S
saint_rafael
Guest
Brian,
I don’t think it will take that long because the Church has been constantly bleeding for years. There is a severe shortage of Priests and the laity are loosing and not practicing their faith more and more each year. The reason I seem glass have full is because I belive the Church is already in ruins with a grat apostasy.
Pope Benedict when considering the Motu Proprio, was said to have told Cardinal Arinze that in a few years there wouldn’t even be a hundred people at the new Mass.
It will take 15-25 years for this to happen when the TLM becomes a familiar part of Parishes. Seminarians are starting to be trained in the TLM already.
The only thing that can speed the process or change the Church right now would be in the form of a direct intervention fron God, in the form a chastisement from God for the sins of the world. I hope we still have time.
I don’t think it will take that long because the Church has been constantly bleeding for years. There is a severe shortage of Priests and the laity are loosing and not practicing their faith more and more each year. The reason I seem glass have full is because I belive the Church is already in ruins with a grat apostasy.
Pope Benedict when considering the Motu Proprio, was said to have told Cardinal Arinze that in a few years there wouldn’t even be a hundred people at the new Mass.
It will take 15-25 years for this to happen when the TLM becomes a familiar part of Parishes. Seminarians are starting to be trained in the TLM already.
The only thing that can speed the process or change the Church right now would be in the form of a direct intervention fron God, in the form a chastisement from God for the sins of the world. I hope we still have time.
M
markadm
Guest
A
agr4028
Guest
Not even on a bet. I like to watch the priests eyes and face as he consecrates the bread and wine. I like language that I understand.
A
agr4028
Guest
We’re getting off-topic here, but there are WAY more issues causing the numbers you cite, rather than Vatican II
S
Spiller
Guest
His quote is:
“No wonder when you consider the fact that 6 Lutheran ministers and a Free mason “Cardinal” were incharge of writing the NO…”
That’s so ludicrous that some might find it offensive for him to think others would believe it. I am aware of the fiction written by the conspiracy theorists on this one. Entertaining, but ridiculous.
If anyone actually believed those stories, why would they remain Catholic?
S
Spiller
Guest
Can you please cite an authoritative reference?Brian,
I don’t think it will take that long because the Church has been constantly bleeding for years. There is a severe shortage of Priests and the laity are loosing and not practicing their faith more and more each year. The reason I seem glass have full is because I belive the Church is already in ruins with a grat apostasy.
**Pope Benedict when considering the Motu Proprio, was said to have told Cardinal Arinze that in a few years there wouldn’t even be a hundred people at the new Mass.
**
It will take 15-25 years for this to happen when the TLM becomes a familiar part of Parishes. Seminarians are starting to be trained in the TLM already.
The only thing that can speed the process or change the Church right now would be in the form of a direct intervention fron God, in the form a chastisement from God for the sins of the world. I hope we still have time.
D
Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
I see your nose is bigger than you think. I hate to burst your bubble, but those who like the Latin Mass and those who like the Novus Ordo, have the same theology.I for one think that if everybody would simply study the basic differences between the TLM and NO theology, everyone would soon see that we are attending a Mass Luther would be proud of. Not a good thing if you ask me…
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
A
AJV
Guest
I wish to point out that Bugnini was not a cardinal and secondly, nobody knows exactly what the observers did or proposed. It’s far from documented.
As for the Campos statements found at the link in post #11, quite a few of them are not backed up, are repeating more-or-less the same thing and some are quite dubious.
To return to the OP’s question though, I would like to see some changes to both in a newer hybrid form.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
What, exactly, are you saying? That the priests who currently use the NO don’t “understand what it means to be a true sacrificing priest”? I think that would come as news to most of them. I’ve heard that the Pope is rather fond of the TLM. Has he booted the NO in favor of the TLM at the Vatican, and I missed it? Does our Holy Father just lack understanding of his own priesthood?
“…the laity won’t infringe in the Mass and profane what belongs to the priesthood…” In other words, you think the Mass is profaned by licit participation by the baptized? Profaned?(!) Have you read Lumen Gentium?
Your generation is in your twenties, yet you decree that your elders are “remnants of a sad and lost generations who will not be revelant…”
Do you have any idea how arrogant this all sounds? This is the kind of rhetoric that was thrown around not so many years ago concerning the TLM and those who still loved it. I beg your pardon if I’m not saying this as charitably as I might have, but it wasn’t appropriate then, and it is not appropriate now.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
Oh, and no, heaven forbid that the NO be phased out.
S
Spiller
Guest
They just lied to you. Actually you reached a conclusion that is just not given by the information you provided.
If you said that there were changes in the number of seminarians or the percentage of Catholics who attended Mass over those periods you would be right – assuming the stats are indeed valid.
HOWEVER to suggest you know those changes came about because of the introduction of the Pauline Mass based on the stats you show is wrong. You don’t know based on the stats provided. You have inserted your personal opinion here for the cause of the changes.
In reality, MANY things – both cultural and ecclesiastical contributed to both changes – not merely the introduction of the Pauline Mass.
To KNOW what caused the changes would require questioning representative samples of both seminarians and plain-old Catholics who were parts of the populations that changed and then analyzing the data to determine the impact of the “treatment” (in this case the change to the Pauline Mass) had on the changes.
While I’m certain it wasn’t the sole reason, I don’t know where it would rank on the list of causes.
S
Spiller
Guest
Indeed. Ain’t gonna happen.
B
Brian777
Guest
To get the Church back on track! Plus if i dont remain Catholic i will lose my salvation as punishment for the sin of heresy! Luther had the same mind set. Get the Church set right. But he eventually went to far and ibstead of reforming the Church he formed his own, heretical version, changed the mass to basicly what we see every sunday, and was then excommunicated for heresy and is now burning for all Eternity.
D
Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
I for one find this most offensive. It’s almost like so many little pope want to bees running around saying, “listen to me, listen to me, I know better than the Magisterium”.
Please tell me prophet St Rafael when did the Holy Spirit give you these words of (and I say this loosely) wisdom. As one who predates the baby boomers and gen-Xers I have to disagree with you most vociferously. Since neither of us is clairvoyant, I guess we will have to rely on father time to give us the answer. I for one, do not see the Novus Ordo going away. Both it and the Latin Mass (I say each of these fully as I feel it disrespectful to refer each just by its initials) have their place in the Church. When you become a part of the Magisterium and remain in union with Rome, you will be given credence. Until that time, don’t hold your breath. You might turn blue.
Prayers and Blessings
Deacon Ed B
- Status