Would you like to see a phasing out of the Novus Ordo Missae leading to a return to only the TLM?

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Brian777 said:
To get the Church back on track! Plus if i dont remain Catholic i will lose my salvation as punishment for the sin of heresy! Luther had the same mind set. Get the Church set right. But he eventually went to far and ibstead of reforming the Church he formed his own, heretical version, changed the mass to basicly what we see every sunday, and was then excommunicated for heresy and is now burning for all Eternity.
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Are you SERIOUS? You make inaccurate and problematic comments like:

"read this…immaculata-one.com/section_15.html and you will understand. Almost all of the changes to the NO were changes that Luther and the Anglican heretics had changed in their masses in the 1500s. No wonder when you consider the fact that 6 Lutheran ministers and a Free mason “Cardinal” were incharge of writing the NO…"

and you actually feel you are helping to reform the Church?!? Are you serious?

Your inaccurate and disingenuous comments are divisive and not the least bit helpful to the Church!
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
I see your nose is bigger than you think. I hate to burst your bubble, but those who like the Latin Mass and those who like the Novus Ordo, have the same theology.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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Yes and hence my statement…As long as true orthodox Catholics and their priests say the Novus ordo the way it was meant to be said (Versus deum, in Latin, and with gregorian chant) we will have a valid mass. The theology that the Lutheran heretics tried to imbed in our mass can easily be blown by the faith that is within the heart of the attendee and the officiating priest. But in the long run, some sort of return to the traditional mass would be optimal theologically.
 
Not long ago, I heard Fr. Ripperger, a professor at the FSSP seminary and a fine priest and theological mind, explain that although there is room for plenty of different Masses in the Catholic Church, having two masses in the same rite is problematic. Each Rite can be traced back to an Apostle (with the Roman Rite going back to Pope St. Peter) and masses can’t be invented. Summorum Pontificum cannot be a permanent solution.

Rather, it is a slow attempt to develop an organically developed single Roman Rite mass rooted in the 1962 missal. As decades and centuries pass, the 1962 and 1969 missals will slowly be changed to more resemble one another, with the 1962 missal exerting the greater influence. Pope Benedict’s approach to reform is brick by brick, as Father Z. would say, and the Motu Proprio was a excellent and astute decision as to what direction the Roman Mass is heading in.

Hence no, the '62 missal will never be the exclusive missal of the Roman Rite again. However, the Novus Ordo will not live forever, either. Remember that sudden liturgical reform got us into this mess, so more sudden reform, even if it seems positive, will only dig a deeper hole.
 
Brian777 said:
Really?
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I don’t think VC2 caused the Cold War and its impacts, the Vietnam War, the free-sex generation, feminism and all the rest that have greatly impacted the Church in the last 40 years…
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
I see your nose is bigger than you think. I hate to burst your bubble, but those who like the Latin Mass and those who like the Novus Ordo, have the same theology.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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Spiller said:
Are you SERIOUS? You make inaccurate and problematic comments like:

"read this…immaculata-one.com/section_15.html and you will understand. Almost all of the changes to the NO were changes that Luther and the Anglican heretics had changed in their masses in the 1500s. No wonder when you consider the fact that 6 Lutheran ministers and a Free mason “Cardinal” were incharge of writing the NO…"

and you actually feel you are helping to reform the Church?!? Are you serious?

Your inaccurate and disingenuous comments are divisive and not the least bit helpful to the Church!
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you wanna have a shoputing match! lets go buddy boy!:knight2:

Sorry i guess i just want u to clarify what u mean by inaccurate and disingenuous and problematic. I see myself as helping the Church stay away from the very heresy that the Latin Mas of Pope Pius the X, a Saint by the way, something Paul has not, and, God willing, will never recieve, was meant to combat! CHURCH HISTORY! read it please
 
Brian777 said:
Yes and hence my statement…As long as true orthodox Catholics and their priests say the Novus ordo the way it was meant to be said (Versus deum, in Latin, and with gregorian chant) we will have a valid mass. The theology that the Lutheran heretics tried to imbed in our mass can easily be blown by the faith that is within the heart of the attendee and the officiating priest. But in the long run, some sort of return to the traditional mass would be optimal theologically.
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You are wrong again.

Orientation, language and music all have legitimate and approved options. The Pauline Mass was not “meant” to only be celebrated ad oritentum, in Latin with Gregorian Chant. You are wrong.

Nor does the use of other orientations, languages or music necessarily impact the validity of the Mass! How could you even say such a thing?!?

Who taught you the stuff you are typing here? I would appreciate understanding what formation you have put yourself through that causes you to make these comments.

Someone has led you away from the truth and it’s difficult to watch. 😦
 
Spiller said:
I don’t think VC2 caused the Cold War and its impacts, the Vietnam War, the free-sex generation, feminism and all the rest that have greatly impacted the Church in the last 40 years…
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NO, it didnt but it greatly encouraged those to continue with its ambiguous statements and in some cases blatantly heretical statements
 
Brian777 said:
you wanna have a shoputing match! lets go buddy boy!:knight2:

Sorry i guess i just want u to clarify what u mean by inaccurate and disingenuous and problematic. I see myself as helping the Church stay away from the very heresy that the Latin Mas of Pope Pius the X, a Saint by the way, something Paul has not, and, God willing, will never recieve, was meant to combat! CHURCH HISTORY! read it please
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Who/what taught you the stuff you are posting on this forum? Maybe you could share your reading list on “Church History?” I would be happy to share my own.
 
Spiller said:
You are wrong again.

Orientation, language and music all have legitimate and approved options. The Pauline Mass was not “meant” to only be celebrated ad oritentum, in Latin with Gregorian Chant. You are wrong.

Nor does the use of other orientations, languages or music necessarily impact the validity of the Mass! How could you even say such a thing?!?

Who taught you the stuff you are typing here? I would appreciate understanding what formation you have put yourself through that causes you to make these comments.

Someone has led you away from the truth and it’s difficult to watch. 😦
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The Traditional Latin Mass is the THRUTH in a miny form! The Novus Ordo is a half-thruth. Now please lets just agree to dissagree because nothing you can say will change the Thruth, and sometimes nothing in the thruth can call back a lost soul so please lats just stop!
 
Brian777 said:
**The Traditional Latin Mass is the THRUTH in a miny form! The Novus Ordo is a half-thruth. **Now please lets just agree to dissagree because nothing you can say will change the Thruth, and sometimes nothing in the thruth can call back a lost soul so please lats just stop!
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🤷 Who or what source taught you these non-truths?

Your personal opinion actually runs counter to what the Church teaches…
 
Brian777 said:
The Traditional Latin Mass is the THRUTH in a miny form! The Novus Ordo is a half-thruth. Now please lets just agree to dissagree because nothing you can say will change the Thruth, and sometimes nothing in the thruth can call back a lost soul so please lats just stop!
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Thruth? And the TLM is a “miny” thruth, while the NO is a 1/2 thruth?

Lost is right. I have no idea whether you’re even being serious or not. 🤷
 
Spiller said:
Who/what taught you the stuff you are posting on this forum?
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The Church of Jesus Christ! Read the documents of the Council of Trent concerning the Liturgy. Pius X even says that those who celebrate a form of the mass different from that promulgated by the Council incur God’s wrath, or something along those lines. Now i have to go so i wont be bak for a while i think what we all need to do is just prayer for God to show us the way anf he will lead us astray.

but i will leave you all with one last quote to ponder from the great Paul VI, “We believed that after the Council would come a day of sunshine in the history of the Church. But instead there has come a day of clouds and storms, and of darkness … And how did this come about? We will confide to you the thought that may be, we ourselves admit in free discussion, that may be unfounded, and that is that there has been a power, an adversary power. Let us call him by his name: the devil. It is as if from some mysterious crack, no, it is not mysterious, from some crack the smoke of satan has entered the temple of God.”
HH Paul VI June 29 1972

May we all heed the warning and seek to fix this day of clouds, storms, and darkness. Amen:highprayer:
 
Spiller said:
🤷 Who or what source taught you these non-truths?

Your personal opinion actually runs counter to what the Church teaches…
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ok one last thing, the Mass is not a matter of Dogma in and of itself, and i would love to see the teaching of the Church that condemns me! prove to me that i am a heretic and headed for hell!
 
Spiller said:
Nothing at all wrong (or inferior) about the Pauline Mass theology.
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I would think having four or more different canons/theologies is not in the best interest of the Church. Stick to the First Eucharistic Prayer at least.

That said, it would not bother me to see a phasing out of the Novus Ordo, though I do have a special attachment to those who attend the Latin Novus Ordo. That should stay.
 
Pious_Mat said:
Not long ago, I heard Fr. Ripperger, a professor at the FSSP seminary and a fine priest and theological mind, explain that although there is room for plenty of different Masses in the Catholic Church, having two masses in the same rite is problematic. Each Rite can be traced back to an Apostle (with the Roman Rite going back to Pope St. Peter) and masses can’t be invented. Summorum Pontificum cannot be a permanent solution.

Rather, it is a slow attempt to develop an organically developed single Roman Rite mass rooted in the 1962 missal. As decades and centuries pass, the 1962 and 1969 missals will slowly be changed to more resemble one another, with the 1962 missal exerting the greater influence. Pope Benedict’s approach to reform is brick by brick, as Father Z. would say, and the Motu Proprio was a excellent and astute decision as to what direction the Roman Mass is heading in.

Hence no, the '62 missal will never be the exclusive missal of the Roman Rite again. However, the Novus Ordo will not live forever, either. Remember that sudden liturgical reform got us into this mess, so more sudden reform, even if it seems positive, will only dig a deeper hole.
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AMEN! God Bless!
 
EasterJoy said:
Thruth? And the TLM is a “miny” thruth, while the NO is a 1/2 thruth?

Lost is right. I have no idea whether you’re even being serious or not. 🤷
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Now I’m sorta curious if Brian777 is just sorta playing around – maybe a parody or sorts?
 
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