Would you maintain sexual intimacy with a spouse addicted to porn?

[Allegra]

I’m actually really surprised at the responses already in this thread. If I found out that my husband was being unfaithful to me by using porn, I really don’t think I could go there. I know enough about addictive behavior from my family life that I know better. It’s not a wife’s job to be “good enough” in bed so as to dissuade her husband from infidelity. If the man is unfaithful, it’s NOT the woman’s fault, nor does the woman have it in her power to fix HIS brain and HIS habits. It’s a repulsive and unrealistic expectation for a woman to put on herself, in my opinion.

 

[pensmama87]

I’m actually really surprised at the responses already in this thread. If I found out that my husband was being unfaithful to me by using porn, I really don’t think I could go there. I know enough about addictive behavior from my family life that I know better. It’s not a wife’s job to be “good enough” in bed so as to dissuade her husband from infidelity. If the man is unfaithful, it’s NOT the woman’s fault, nor does the woman have it in her power to fix HIS brain and HIS habits. It’s a repulsive and unrealistic expectation for a woman to put on herself, in my opinion.

Yes, I agree.

I would definitely, even through pain and hurt, want to do what I could to help.

“The real thing” comments, though, I really can’t stomach. I’m not a thing. I’m not a means to a cure. I’m not some receptacle for my husband’s disordered urges. I’m his wife.

 

[E_7]

On an emotional level, I would have a very, very difficult time with it.

It would probably matter a great deal if he were trying to overcome the addiction or not, but truthfully, it would be a huge libido killer. My self-confidence would be really shaken. I would keep wondering if I was “good enough,” “pretty enough,” “interesting enough.” I would wonder if I was just being used.

That would make it very difficult for me. I would need some serious trust rebuilt. I understand the concept of the marital debt and I also understand that sex can be healing, but sometimes (and I even see it on this thread already) I feel like the idea that sexual intimacy helps cure a husband is really just continuing to objectify a woman as a sexual object…just for a different purpose. It really makes me feel icky.

I have to say, though, that I would probably never agree to be my husband’s accountability partner for something like that. I would not want to know that level of detail about his temptations and falling into sin against himself, our marriage, and me. It would just re-wound me every time.

Likewise, except that I would prefer to be the accountability partner and be re-wounded, honestly. It would not be healthy, but that’s just me.

 

[E_7]

Yes, I agree.

I would definitely, even through pain and hurt, want to do what I could to help.

“The real thing” comments, though, I really can’t stomach. I’m not a thing. I’m not a means to a cure. I’m not some receptacle for my husband’s disordered urges. I’m his wife.

Yes.

 

[Allegra]

Yes, I agree.

I would definitely, even through pain and hurt, want to do what I could to help.

“The real thing” comments, though, I really can’t stomach. I’m not a thing. I’m not a means to a cure. I’m not some receptacle for my husband’s disordered urges. I’m his wife.

Unfortunately, I have a member of my immediate family that has extremely advanced sexual addictions. He has actually progressed to fetishes that involve self-harm because the standard versions of deviancy no longer did it for him. The main thing the sex addiction specialists tell the spouses is that they are not responsible for the addicts behavior and there really isn’t anything that they can do to make them stop. They’ve all emphasized that the idea that the addict would stop if he was getting enough sex/love/attention/respect from his wife is a complete myth. What they recommend is that the spouse have clear boundaries and that he or she protect themselves when necessary. They also recommend that they avoid attempting to control the situation by emotional manipulation and codependent behaviors. Really, there isn’t much else to be done to be supportive.

 

[alphawoman]

It must be nice not to have any addictions of your own. Because it sure would be weird for you to expect tolerance, respect, and assistance in that and yet hold the bar pretty high on a really common problem men have. I mean just try living with testosterone for a while and see how long you hold out. No one wants to do bad stuff. But with a high bar now you have the problem of no one wants to do bad stuff and admit it to you.

Sorry if I sound rude about this. I’m not trying to be. I’m just really sensitive to these kinds of attitudes. I grew up with them. The thinking that my failing was somehow an accidental or even purposeful personal attack on someone else. I mean it’s bad enough to fail yourself, but now you’ve got someone else joining in on judging how bad you are? Do you know how double hard it is to get back out of that? I don’t know. I mean please don’t be mad at me, but you’ve got to realize this isn’t a walk in the park for most guys. This is a real thing. It isn’t easy.

And nobody is going to be healed if they think you’ve already lost respect for them. Even if you have. Because there’s nothing left to hope for.

Peace.

-Trident

Yes, how dare I refuse the total gift of self and expect that a behaviour totally counter to and destructive of my husband’s and my marital vows not occur!

I find it curious that you think sex is the only way a wife can support her husband in overcoming an addiction that poisons her family and home. I guess couples and individual counselling, seeking medical referrals, encouraging him to receive the sacraments and pray the rosary together, offering words of love, holding the family together psychically and financially, keeping on top of his medications, and praying for him amount to nothing. Oh, let’s not forget encouraging him to admit slips and working on discussing his feelings together in a non-judgmental way. What do I know? My husband has only kicked the porn habit through 4 years of hard work, failures, and working together to rebuild trust.

Please, spare me the supercilious language, and please stop advocating that Catholic wives abdicate their responsibility to self-protect. You are harming women and families by suggesting they have a responsibility to be codependents (which they don’t). Addicts are responsible for addicts’ behaviour, and words to the contrary are typical addict denial and self-delusion.

 

[alphawoman]

Unfortunately, I have a member of my immediate family that has extremely advanced sexual addictions. He has actually progressed to fetishes that involve self-harm because the standard versions of deviancy no longer did it for him. The main thing the sex addiction specialists tell the spouses is that they are not responsible for the addicts behavior and there really isn’t anything that they can do to make them stop. They’ve all emphasized that the idea that the addict would stop if he was getting enough sex/love/attention/respect from his wife is a complete myth. What they recommend is that the spouse have clear boundaries and that he or she protect themselves when necessary. They also recommend that they avoid attempting to control the situation by emotional manipulation and codependent behaviors. Really, there isn’t much else to be done to be supportive.

Right on. Addictions come in many flavours and substances, but the general principles remain the same. Sexual addictions are particularly painful–and so common–because they directly attack the foundation of marriage and family life. That’s why they’re so prevalent, because they erode the domestic church.

 

[alphawoman]

I’m actually really surprised at the responses already in this thread. If I found out that my husband was being unfaithful to me by using porn, I really don’t think I could go there. I know enough about addictive behavior from my family life that I know better. It’s not a wife’s job to be “good enough” in bed so as to dissuade her husband from infidelity. If the man is unfaithful, it’s NOT the woman’s fault, nor does the woman have it in her power to fix HIS brain and HIS habits. It’s a repulsive and unrealistic expectation for a woman to put on herself, in my opinion.

Yes again!

 

[alphawoman]

Trident, have you tried counselling for addiction with an earnest desire to heal? Addictions aren’t overcome by expecting another person to heal the wounds. Addicts rely heavily on their sense of being a victim of something (like testosterone) and try and force others to be their constant savior. Experts in the field are able to clearly see when an addict turns a corner when they stop deferring to victimhood and really begin to empathise with those they are hurting. That is when their healing truly starts. A Catholic couple practicing NFP by necessity have to develop a predictable routine in their sexlife and practice holy abstinence as part of their sex life. Pope StJPII lauded the abstinence of NFP as a positive attribute in the growth of marital love and unity.

The OP has a right to expect respect and needs understand her strengths to be able to know a right path for herself and the marriage. Porn degrades everybody, men, women and children and is not passive. It is images of real people who participate in the act of everyone who uses porn. Every single person involved with it is equally victim and can only heal from it by taking charge of themselves at the end of the day.

Good advice.

 

[Allegra]

Addicts are responsible for addicts’ behaviour, and words to the contrary are typical addict denial and self-delusion.

People who have not had to deal with addictions first hand do not recognize this. They are fortunate not to know about how codependency works and how an addict uses a person’s good nature and desire to love and support them as a weakness to manipulate and abuse. I wish I didn’t have that experience, but I do. Draw and insist on boundaries, protect oneself, and do not undermine the addict’s treatment. That’s really all another person can do. Well, that and pray.

 

[alphawoman]

People who have not had to deal with addictions first hand do not recognize this. They are fortunate not to know about how codependency works and how an addict uses a person’s good nature and desire to love and support them as a weakness to manipulate and abuse. I wish I didn’t have that experience, but I do. Draw and insist on boundaries, protect oneself, and do not undermine the addict’s treatment. That’s really all another person can do. Well, that and pray.

Wise words, Allegra. I’m sorry you’ve had first-hand experience with addiction. It’s painful for all involved. You and your family are in my prayers. :console:

 

[Allegra]

It must be nice not to have any addictions of your own. Because it sure would be weird for you to expect tolerance, respect, and assistance in that and yet hold the bar pretty high on a really common problem men have. I mean just try living with testosterone for a while and see how long you hold out. No one wants to do bad stuff. But with a high bar now you have the problem of no one wants to do bad stuff and admit it to you.

Sorry if I sound rude about this. I’m not trying to be. I’m just really sensitive to these kinds of attitudes. I grew up with them. The thinking that my failing was somehow an accidental or even purposeful personal attack on someone else. I mean it’s bad enough to fail yourself, but now you’ve got someone else joining in on judging how bad you are? Do you know how double hard it is to get back out of that? I don’t know. I mean please don’t be mad at me, but you’ve got to realize this isn’t a walk in the park for most guys. This is a real thing. It isn’t easy.

And nobody is going to be healed if they think you’ve already lost respect for them. Even if you have. Because there’s nothing left to hope for.

Peace.

-Trident

Wow. I don’t think you could have written a better example of the kind of emotional manipulations that addicts try on others if you had literally copied it from a text book entitled, “Addicts and How They Manipulate People”. I mean, you covered practically everything in the official addict excuse book in one succinct post!

“You’re not perfect either.”
“You’re so intolerant/disrespectful/judgemental, and just plain mean.”
“Everyone else does it.”
“You couldn’t possibly understand how hard I have it.”
“I HAVE to lie to you because I can’t meet your unreasonable expectations.”
“It’s not my fault, I had a bad childhood.”
“I’m a victim more than you.”
“It’s your fault because you don’t love/support/respect me enough.”
“Woe as me! I’m so depressed! Why don’t you feel sorry for me, you heartless goon!?”

 

[alphawoman]

Wow. I don’t think you could have written a better example of the kind of emotional manipulations that addicts try on others if you had literally copied it from a text book entitled, “Addicts and How They Manipulate People”. I mean, you covered practically everything in the official addict excuse book in one succinct post!

“You’re not perfect either.”
“You’re so intolerant/disrespectful/judgemental, and just plain mean.”
“Everyone else does it.”
“You couldn’t possibly understand how hard I have it.”
“I HAVE to lie to you because I can’t meet your unreasonable expectations.”
“It’s not my fault, I had a bad childhood.”
“I’m a victim more than you.”
“It’s your fault because you don’t love/support/respect me enough.”
“Woe as me! I’m so depressed! Why don’t you feel sorry for me, you heartless goon!?”

Yes!!

 

[Allegra]

Wow. I don’t think you could have written a better example of the kind of emotional manipulations that addicts try on others if you had literally copied it from a text book entitled, “Addicts and How They Manipulate People”. I mean, you covered practically everything in the official addict excuse book in one succinct post!

“You’re not perfect either.”
“You’re so intolerant/disrespectful/judgemental, and just plain mean.”
“Everyone else does it.”
“You couldn’t possibly understand how hard I have it.”
“I HAVE to lie to you because I can’t meet your unreasonable expectations.”
“It’s not my fault, I had a bad childhood.”
“I’m a victim more than you.”
“It’s your fault because you don’t love/support/respect me enough.”
“Woe as me! I’m so depressed! Why don’t you feel sorry for me, you heartless goon!?”

Seriously though, look at this web page and compare it to what you wrote. bma-wellness.com/papers/Excuses_Alcoholics.html

Isn’t that just a little bit scary to you? Maybe it might be time to get some help?

And OP, if your husband is using any of these lines on you, please don’t accept them! Get some support, if you haven’t already!

 

[Perian]

Ooh. Yikes. I was wondering what happened to get us up to 3 pages already.

To answer the most recent question, no, my husband has never offered me anything but his shame, hurt, and contrition. No victimhood or blame. He has hidden his actions from me in the past and I have communicated to him that his deception hurts far more than his actions. I shared this struggle for many years and overcame it when I realized what my life had become. It is no exaggeration that I realized my salvation was in serious question due to my lifestyle and the way it had escalated from casual pornography to a relationship with a man with truly sick, deviant sexual desires that he wanted to involve me in. I know how his heart is aching with wretched powerlessness. When he brings his failures before me, my response is always one of love, understanding, and reassurance that he cannot lose my love.

The only time I respond in anger is when he hides it or when he is not delicate with my feelings concerning areas where I have wounds that he has inflicted, specifically when we are intimate. I absolutely refuse to excuse that selfishness after four years of giving, giving, giving. But even my anger is a quiet burn. We don’t yell or resort to insults or blame.

My only purpose in posting this was to seek reassurance that remaining by my husband’s side and not shutting him out of an experience of well ordered love is right. I do not allow him to use me. I am certainly not an alternative outlet for his lust. Honestly, he does not often initiate and that has been an enormous source of insecurity. I seek him out, when he seeks out them… He rarely comes to me. Hence, the question-- should I be bothering?

There are many tangles but I am
confident that we will get through his together.

 

[Trident_H]

Trident, have you tried counselling for addiction with an earnest desire to heal? Addictions aren’t overcome by expecting another person to heal the wounds. Addicts rely heavily on their sense of being a victim of something (like testosterone) and try and force others to be their constant savior. Experts in the field are able to clearly see when an addict turns a corner when they stop deferring to victimhood and really begin to empathise with those they are hurting. That is when their healing truly starts. A Catholic couple practicing NFP by necessity have to develop a predictable routine in their sexlife and practice holy abstinence as part of their sex life. Pope StJPII lauded the abstinence of NFP as a positive attribute in the growth of marital love and unity.

The OP has a right to expect respect and needs understand her strengths to be able to know a right path for herself and the marriage. Porn degrades everybody, men, women and children and is not passive. It is images of real people who participate in the act of everyone who uses porn. Every single person involved with it is equally victim and can only heal from it by taking charge of themselves at the end of the day.

Well I guess I sort of messed up here. I mean I was trying to be honest about what it’s like. But maybe I went too far. I don’t know. I’ve never been really good at communicating like this. I always say too much. I’m sorry if I did that here. I read my post twice before sending it. But I guess the voice in my head was not really all that good. The voice in my head said it was fine. It said it would help someone see what it’s like to be in a rut. To be on that side of it.

But yeah, you’re right. I do sometimes come off as a victim. I do have that problem. I’m trying hard to get past it. But I guess I’m not. I guess I didn’t make as much progress as I thought I had. I’m still too self-absorbed to even realize it.

But I should just clear this one thing up. I’m not a porn addict. I don’t use porn. I hate it. It actually breaks my heart to look at. No, I’m a drug addict. An alcoholic. And other things.

I’ve only been clean for 6 months. So it’s easy for me to still be a bit of a jerk. I’m sorry about that. I probably shouldn’t be trying to give any sort of advice.

But thanks for telling me I was doing that stuff again. I wish I hadn’t. I wish I’d kept my thoughts to myself.

Peace.

-Trident

 

[Trident_H]

Yes, I agree.

I would definitely, even through pain and hurt, want to do what I could to help.

“The real thing” comments, though, I really can’t stomach. I’m not a thing. I’m not a means to a cure. I’m not some receptacle for my husband’s disordered urges. I’m his wife.

You weren’t supposed to be a thing. The experience was. I’m sorry I guess I didn’t explain that as well as I could. It was the best I could do with the words that came to my head. I wanted to explain, but ended up not doing that very well. Sorry. I guess I made everyone upset with me. Again.

Peace.

-Trident

 

[Trident_H]

Yes, how dare I refuse the total gift of self and expect that a behaviour totally counter to and destructive of my husband’s and my marital vows not occur!

I find it curious that you think sex is the only way a wife can support her husband in overcoming an addiction that poisons her family and home. I guess couples and individual counselling, seeking medical referrals, encouraging him to receive the sacraments and pray the rosary together, offering words of love, holding the family together psychically and financially, keeping on top of his medications, and praying for him amount to nothing. Oh, let’s not forget encouraging him to admit slips and working on discussing his feelings together in a non-judgmental way. What do I know? My husband has only kicked the porn habit through 4 years of hard work, failures, and working together to rebuild trust.

Please, spare me the supercilious language, and please stop advocating that Catholic wives abdicate their responsibility to self-protect. You are harming women and families by suggesting they have a responsibility to be codependents (which they don’t). Addicts are responsible for addicts’ behaviour, and words to the contrary are typical addict denial and self-delusion.

Ok. I guess I deserved that. I’m really sorry. I didn’t mean it to sound that way. But it obviously did. You’re right to be mad about that. I’m really honestly sorry. I sort of wasn’t thinking through what I said. But I mean it was obviously in my head at the time so I guess I can’t say that I wasn’t thinking those kind of thoughts. I guess I’ve been on my own too long. Or maybe there’s no excuse. I don’t know. I just really want to say I’m sorry.

Peace.

-Trident

 

[Trident_H]

Wow. I don’t think you could have written a better example of the kind of emotional manipulations that addicts try on others if you had literally copied it from a text book entitled, “Addicts and How They Manipulate People”. I mean, you covered practically everything in the official addict excuse book in one succinct post!

“You’re not perfect either.”
“You’re so intolerant/disrespectful/judgemental, and just plain mean.”
“Everyone else does it.”
“You couldn’t possibly understand how hard I have it.”
“I HAVE to lie to you because I can’t meet your unreasonable expectations.”
“It’s not my fault, I had a bad childhood.”
“I’m a victim more than you.”
“It’s your fault because you don’t love/support/respect me enough.”
“Woe as me! I’m so depressed! Why don’t you feel sorry for me, you heartless goon!?”

Yeah. I guess that’s how that reads. I thought I was just expressing how it felt to be an addict and to try to recover and still feel too low to get up. But I guess I just only saw it from my point of view. Which is typical I guess. But I didn’t want to bring more pain into this. I just was sensitive to it and felt like I was back in a place. But I mean I’ve got to remember that when a guy falls he shouldn’t expect anyone to treat him like he used to be. Like he was before he fell. They should treat him like what he is. If he’s fallen they should look down on that. And on him I guess. I don’t know.

I guess the part I keep forgetting is that the addiction started with a free choice. Maybe it wasn’t completely without confusion. But it was a choice. So when an addict like me gets to look back we keep mixing up the addiction with not having a choice. But we had a choice at the beginning. It’s no one’s fault that we chose that path. There were other options. I mean I could have tried something other than alcohol to deal with the pain. And I could have tried something other than drugs to try to deal with the alcohol. But I didn’t. So I guess that’s why I’m still on the wrong side of things. Sorry.

Peace.

-Trident

 

[LongingSoul]

Well I guess I sort of messed up here. I mean I was trying to be honest about what it’s like. But maybe I went too far. I don’t know. I’ve never been really good at communicating like this. I always say too much. I’m sorry if I did that here. I read my post twice before sending it. But I guess the voice in my head was not really all that good. The voice in my head said it was fine. It said it would help someone see what it’s like to be in a rut. To be on that side of it.

But yeah, you’re right. I do sometimes come off as a victim. I do have that problem. I’m trying hard to get past it. But I guess I’m not. I guess I didn’t make as much progress as I thought I had. I’m still too self-absorbed to even realize it.

But I should just clear this one thing up. I’m not a porn addict. I don’t use porn. I hate it. It actually breaks my heart to look at. No, I’m a drug addict. An alcoholic. And other things.

I’ve only been clean for 6 months. So it’s easy for me to still be a bit of a jerk. I’m sorry about that. I probably shouldn’t be trying to give any sort of advice.

But thanks for telling me I was doing that stuff again. I wish I hadn’t. I wish I’d kept my thoughts to myself.

Peace.

-Trident

Trident, you are most probably destined to help others by your experience if you have that desire so don’t think that is where you go wrong. It’s just perhaps premature because there’s evidence that you are still in old thinking patterns. That truly can happen. Someone gets clean and might think that’s the end of it… but it doesn’t end there. You have to keep working and chipping away at old patterns until you can see how they keep you imprisoned and helpless. If you lived near here I could give the names of 10 or more fantastic counsellors!!! but keep at it with the counselling until you are free of the old beliefs about your limits.

God bless on your journey to wellness.