Would you maintain sexual intimacy with a spouse addicted to porn?

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Naturally, the man here will have a great deal of misery on his hands too, largely from pornography itself. Apart from the staggered rushes of pleasure it brings, it tears his life down and turns him into his own prisoner, and he becomes more and more incapable of looking at women (and by extension, all human beings) as the immortal creatures that they are. He’ll be a lonely soul that sees his kid’s on weekends and pay out a fat alimony check that decimates his income, and eventually find comfort in another woman who herself is probably divorced. The cycle then has a good chance to repeat itself.

None of this has anything to do with my own conjecture. This is the contemporary landscape of marriage.
Just so you know, fat alimony checks are generally only dispersed if there was a pre-nuptial agreement, or if the woman is contesting the divorce and was a homemaker for most of their marriage. As those situations are rare, alimony payments are almost unheard of in this day and age. Maybe you meant child support?
 
Yeah, child support. I don’t know about the details of the billions of dollars that get wasted on divorce cases, and to be honest the subject sounds exceedingly boring. I always thought alimony and child support meant the same thing.
 
When I read the title the answer was (and still is) clear to me: NO.

I do not have experience with this problem, so its hypothetical for me, but the answer came to me quite clearly. Probably because its like being cheated on, and also porn is a serious addiction. God forgives, AND He can heal the person and deliver the person from the demons and even erase all desire and memory of these acts. But, normally it takes an addict/demonized person some REAL serious time, work and most importantly a *will *to let go (God won’t violate his will). It seems quite clear to me that one needs some abstinence after the meaning of marital love has been so violated. I do not think “mixing it up”, having marital intimacy while his heart is still on the evil one’s designs is good. No. He needs to cleansed, and made free, and a start-over can happen later when he feels free from the addiction and the memory of it.

So I starred reading the comments and I was really shocked. :eek: How can this be? I was relieve to read Alphawoman’s post on the top of page 2, and what Allegra and others said. So I am not alone. Its what the other woman are saying, wise ones, that I agree with.

Guys on page 1, I think you need a deeper understanding of what marital intimacy is. Gary Popcaks “Holy Sex!” is a good place to look.

Because if you think a woman can be used to feel better, or get better, you have got it all mixed up. It is supposed to be mutual self-donating love. However, women, too, have bought into our culture’s lies, and often, many such woman mistakenly think they are blessing their man by letting themselves be used in such a way. They are NOT. They are not only denying themselves what God intends for martial love but they are depriving their husbands of the blessing of participating in God’s plan for marital love as well, so they are doing him NO FAVORS Certainly, they are* failing him* in their true vocation to help him get to heaven.😦 At the very least, IMO, they are heaping more years on him in purgatory while he straightens out the state of mind they helped put him in!)

This statement from the first page is the kind of thing that is against true marital intimacy:

“I think that if a man genuinely wants to stop looking at porn, and if he’s married, then he can be with his wife whenever he feels himself getting close to a tipping point.”

No. Her body is not a just like a swig of gin to take when one feels stressed.

Its as pensmama says: “I’m not a thing. I’m not a means to a cure. I’m not some receptacle for my husband’s disordered urges. I’m his wife.”

That’s the truth!

Alphawoman and Allegra have useful knowledge about addictions and codependency to offer here.

TK421, its true in today’s mainstream culture most are FAR from the beautiful intimacy that God intends and men and woman have been fooled. But for all those who are far from God’s best, they can repent, they can be healed, and they can still have the best.

Trident, I can picture you as a real leader someday in helping people to heal and imparting true hope in the glory of God’s ways. You remind me of the Apostle Peter somehow. Very blunt, ready to jump out there but then also a very humble response to truth. I think you would REALLY like Gregory Popcak’s Holy Sex, to see in contrast to the lying promises of our culture what God’s way really looks like. I see its only $6, used, there on Amazon…

Also Trident, I am going to send you some links to some excerpts from a work that has been a great comfort to me in many years afloat in a world of differing values…
 
Yeah, child support. I don’t know about the details of the billions of dollars that get wasted on divorce cases, and to be honest the subject sounds exceedingly boring. I always thought alimony and child support meant the same thing.
Child support is money a non-custodial parent pays a custodial parent in order to support their own child. Alimony is money that courts require one party of a divorce to pay to the other party for the support of the spouse. It’s generally only given in an instance of a contested divorce, where the contesting party gave up the opportunity to have a career that he or she could potentially use to support his or herself in order to be a homemaker or stay at home parent. Alimony used to be very common, as many women did not pursue careers after marriage. Now it is rare, as most women do have some sort of career and many marriages end after only a couple of years anyway, which isn’t a hindrance to the woman starting a career.

PS- I don’t think it’s a “waste” to require a man to support his own children.
 
Child support is money a non-custodial parent pays a custodial parent in order to support their own child. Alimony is money that courts require one party of a divorce to pay to the other party for the support of the spouse. It’s generally only given in an instance of a contested divorce, where the contesting party gave up the opportunity to have a career that he or she could potentially use to support his or herself in order to be a homemaker or stay at home parent. Alimony used to be very common, as many women did not pursue careers after marriage. Now it is rare, as most women do have some sort of career and many marriages end after only a couple of years anyway, which isn’t a hindrance to the woman starting a career.

PS- I don’t think it’s a “waste” to require a man to support his own children.
When my ex left for an affair when our child was small, I did receive alimony for a certain amount of years, on top of custody. Both figures were pre-decided by the law, and one reason I got it is that I had supported him through his entire college education, which was his career field. It was not enough to live on, but it made it much easier with a small child. (But it was not easy!).
 
You were 100% successful in demonstrating how it feels to be an addict. You pretty much listed off nearly every line that the voice in an addicted person’s head keeps telling them in order to keep them in addiction and isolate them from those who genuinely care about them and want them to recover. The reason that a therapist can write a script of what you are going to say before you actually say it, is that addicts have been spouting the same stuff since antiquity. It’s literally the addiction talking, and it doesn’t seem to make a difference if the addiction is to porn, drugs, alcohol, video games, or gambling. That “addict voice” uses the exact same lines regardless of what the person is actually addicted to. Weird huh?
I don’t know how weird it is. I mean the problems are the same. Maybe the root causes are even the same. Maybe the experiences are similar or the same. So then a guy gets the same feelings in his heart. And wants someone to understand what it’s like. In the same way. I think that’s sort of human nature really. To want someone to understand. To want to resist change. To not be ready to change until change needs to happen. To want to pretend that you aren’t hurting other people when really you are. To make excuses instead of doing harder things that take real effort.

I mean would it surprise you if I could also list a lot of the common things that someone who is not addicted and has never been addicted says to a guy who is? Says when they are assuming that guy is nothing more than his addictions? I mean they also read like lines in a script. I can predict them too. That’s why I’m sensitive to them (just like maybe you’re sensitive to the things I might say). That doesn’t mean I don’t care about that person. It doesn’t mean I don’t see them as a person. A person who is being hurt by the addiction. A person hurt by my actions.

And I mean what then is the automatic response to causing hurt? Denial. Who wants to admit that? So yeah, there are only a few things a guy can say or do that allows him to pretend that he’s the one being hurt instead of the other way around. So I guess it’s not that surprising that there are only a handful. That they can be made into a list.

I was lucky in that I didn’t have anyone around me for a lot of my time when I was addicted. Part of my addiction was about trying to control something else. And that led directly to running away from the people who might have tried to stop me. I was good and far away. I started my addictions as a way to die in small pieces. I felt it was what I deserved, but I was too much of a coward to do it cleanly. When that didn’t work I just tried to live a harder life. I tried to take on dangerous jobs. When that didn’t work I was exhausted. I just had had enough.

So now I’m working through it alone because I got into it alone. I’m trying to live my life backwards in a way. It is the only thing I have left. It’s the one thing I can really do. The only thing that will help me look in the mirror again. Or maybe I’m just doing it out of pride. Maybe pride has always been my problem. I was a coward so instead of having my pride hurt I did the hurting first. It kept me in control in a way. I don’t know. To be in control of losing control doesn’t sound like that makes a lot of sense. But when does addiction really make a lot of sense?
Anyway, that’s why there is so much more to overcoming addiction than “getting clean”. Many people who have suffered from addiction have to continue with group and individual therapy for the rest of their life in order to keep themselves accountable. That voice in your head is invasive and will continue trying to manipulate you back into addiction for years after you’ve successfully gotten clean. Part of recovery is learning to recognize the defective thinking patterns that got started while you were using, and stop them before they effect your relationships and cause you to get isolated and depressed to the point of using again.
Thanks for trying to help. Thanks for taking that time. You must have a big heart to have gone through all this before. To have lived with someone with addictions and still want to take the time to help someone else out. A complete stranger. I feel bad that I can’t fix what I’ve broken in my life. I wish I could just return someone’s affections fairly. I don’t think I ever did it. Not growing up, not when I was dating, and not during my brief marriage. But it is in messages like these that I want to try. I mean you have no idea how much I am wishing you good feelings right now. There is no way for me to make it come through in these words. But I mean I read your message this morning and thought about what you might have gone through all day. I tried to figure out a way to say something to let you know that I care. Something that sounded right. I was there during Mass being tempted to write out the ideas that came. But I didn’t because I didn’t want to miss out on what was going on. But then I got home and all the ideas had disappeared. So instead I wrote this. I hope you understand it. I hope I didn’t make the same mistake as before. In my message to Alpha. (I’ve read it over three times now and it sounds ok. But I guess you’ll tell me if it isn’t.)

Well thanks so much anyway. I appreciate the direction.

Peace.

-Trident
 
I suppose my unpopular and factually correct view that some female members might be unhappy with is: women are not incompetent. They are intelligent creatures. For the majority of women in these situations, it is to some extent their fault that they’re stuck with a husband that masturbates to porn, which puts them in an awkward situation to shut the conjugal life of the marriage down. They saw the red flags and they chose to ignore them because of moral weakness and willful ignorance. They are culpable for that, they are directly culpable for the suffering & consequences it has on the children they willfully chose to have with the man, and if they want to salvage the relationship later, it’s going to involve suffering on their part, and it is suffering which they created with their own two hands.

I’m going to end my discussion here. Your reputation precedes you and I know the dialogue here isn’t going to make any ground.
I don’t know man. I mean I think you’ve got some points here and there in your other posts, but this? I don’t think it’s fair to think that women know what they’re getting into. I mean women often don’t really know men all that well until they get married. They don’t know how guys often see the world. They don’t see the utilitarian side of men. Men have this problem of breaking things down into working parts. They figure out what needs to be done and they do it.

So I mean a lot of guys hide their porn really well. A lot of guys aren’t stupid. They know their wife wouldn’t approve. But here is where the problem gets hard. Because in hiding the problem they have to deal with it alone. That means no support. No rational discussion. They have to rise up from the pit of degradation on their own steam. Because if they asked their wife for help it would be an automatic turn-off. It would shut down their chances of recovery because they would lose that one thing that was motivating them before. They would lose the fear of their wife seeing them for what they are. And it would use up the last bits of respect they were getting. The last piece of dignity that they were using to shame themselves into changing. Now their wife is in the position of seeing them sort of like the man was seeing women in those pictures. Now the wife sees them as a thing too.

And maybe that is fair, but it’s also sort of bad timing. It’s like one trying to go up by pulling another down. So maybe they both end up going down more. Like a guy struggling to get out the mud ends up pulling another in with him. Instead of getting out on his own and quietly building a fence around it so he doesn’t go back in.

I don’t know. I guess I just mean that this is not fair to think women should be expected to know this about men. It’s a whole set of things I wish men didn’t have to deal with and that I really wish women never had to worry about.

Peace.

-Trident
 
Trident, I can picture you as a real leader someday in helping people to heal and imparting true hope in the glory of God’s ways. You remind me of the Apostle Peter somehow. Very blunt, ready to jump out there but then also a very humble response to truth. I think you would REALLY like Gregory Popcak’s Holy Sex, to see in contrast to the lying promises of our culture what God’s way really looks like. I see its only $6, used, there on Amazon…

Also Trident, I am going to send you some links to some excerpts from a work that has been a great comfort to me in many years afloat in a world of differing values…
Well thanks for that. I didn’t expect to be compared to Peter. 😊 I don’t know if I’m ready for that yet. I have to be careful about thinking that I’m worthy about stuff yet. I still have a lot of me to earn back first. But I mean I’m really touched that you thought that. It sort of blew me away a bit. Thanks for that.

And I really want to thank you for the links. I’ll check those things out. I’m always ready for good advice like that. Thanks again. Really.

Peace Eliza.

-Trident
 
I don’t know man. I mean I think you’ve got some points here and there in your other posts, but this? I don’t think it’s fair to think that women know what they’re getting into.
Obviously, porn isn’t something men will generally be vocal about, except in a setting where they feel safe with it (like, possibly with another college-age male).

Issues of sexual ethics don’t exist in a vacuum though. They’re all connected. If you’re one of the 55% of women that voted for a pro-choice, anti-Christ candidate, you’re naturally going to look for a man that conforms (as much as possible) to your self-centered worldview, which means you’re going to be a sexually heterodox female that “marries” a sexually heterodox male, and if you marry a sexually heterodox male, even if you’re not explicitly asking for unfaithfulness, you’re nonetheless making yourself a candidate for it. If you’re going to endorse a degenerate view of the human body, that is going to carry over into what kind of husband (or in this case: human accessory item) you’re looking for. This thread is still focusing on addicts but there’s no reason that it should be. Anybody that consumes pornography in any casual degree is being unfaithful.

I strongly believe in Alexis de Tocqueville’s quote, “A people get the government that they deserve”, and I think this applies just as much to marriage. Or you can go with “Birds of the same feather flock together”. Whichever works.
 
Probably not. I broke my own rule in attempting communication with LongingSoul. It ended about as fruitfully as her conversations with her children.
Are you blaming communicating with me for making a badly judged opinion? That’s interesting. Blaming others for your own flaws seems to be a theme. 🤷
Obviously, porn isn’t something men will generally be vocal about, except in a setting where they feel safe with it (like, possibly with another college-age male).
Issues of sexual ethics don’t exist in a vacuum though. They’re all connected. If you’re one of the 55% of women that voted for a pro-choice, anti-Christ candidate, you’re naturally going to look for a man that conforms (as much as possible) to your self-centered worldview, which means you’re going to be a sexually heterodox female that “marries” a sexually heterodox male, and if you marry a sexually heterodox male, even if you’re not explicitly asking for unfaithfulness, you’re nonetheless making yourself a candidate for it. If you’re going to endorse a degenerate view of the human body, that is going to carry over into what kind of husband (or in this case: human accessory item) you’re looking for. This thread is still focusing on addicts but there’s no reason that it should be. Anybody that consumes pornography in any casual degree is being unfaithful.
I strongly believe in Alexis de Tocqueville’s quote, “A people get the government that they deserve”, and I think this applies just as much to marriage. Or you can go with “Birds of the same feather flock together”. Whichever works.
That’s such a depressing worldview. You get what you deserve and that’s that. People make bad decisions for all sorts of reasons that usually stem from low self esteem and poor education but there’s nothing more hopeful and joyful than doing better once you know better. Expecting others to respect you, the marriage and themselves, when you’ve grown and matured in faith is the point of living.
 
Believe it or not, one doesn’t have to be a 100% orthodox Christian to have a happy marriage.
Obviously, porn isn’t something men will generally be vocal about, except in a setting where they feel safe with it (like, possibly with another college-age male).

Issues of sexual ethics don’t exist in a vacuum though. They’re all connected. If you’re one of the 55% of women that voted for a pro-choice, anti-Christ candidate, you’re naturally going to look for a man that conforms (as much as possible) to your self-centered worldview, which means you’re going to be a sexually heterodox female that “marries” a sexually heterodox male, and if you marry a sexually heterodox male, even if you’re not explicitly asking for unfaithfulness, you’re nonetheless making yourself a candidate for it. If you’re going to endorse a degenerate view of the human body, that is going to carry over into what kind of husband (or in this case: human accessory item) you’re looking for. This thread is still focusing on addicts but there’s no reason that it should be. Anybody that consumes pornography in any casual degree is being unfaithful.

I strongly believe in Alexis de Tocqueville’s quote, “A people get the government that they deserve”, and I think this applies just as much to marriage. Or you can go with “Birds of the same feather flock together”. Whichever works.
 
That’s such a depressing worldview. You get what you deserve and that’s that. People make bad decisions for all sorts of reasons that usually stem from low self esteem and poor education but there’s nothing more hopeful and joyful than doing better once you know better. Expecting others to respect you, the marriage and themselves, when you’ve grown and matured in faith is the point of living.
But you do get what you deserve. Sin is not a small deal. If you enter into a marriage (or something that resembles it) with gravely erroneous views, and you have gravely erroneous standards, you’re going to end up with a gravely erroneous individual. I really don’t think this is such a dismal thing to believe. It seems rather straightforward as a cause and effect.

That doesn’t make it the end of the story, but there is no “instant recovery” option once that happens. If a person has dug themselves into a hole, and they decide they want out of it, it’s going to be a hard climb. It is going to hurt. It works that way in careers, it works that way in general discipline, and it works that way in marriage. Forgiveness is acquired instantaneously, but recovery is not.
 
Obviously, porn isn’t something men will generally be vocal about, except in a setting where they feel safe with it (like, possibly with another college-age male).

Issues of sexual ethics don’t exist in a vacuum though. They’re all connected. If you’re one of the 55% of women that voted for a pro-choice, anti-Christ candidate, you’re naturally going to look for a man that conforms (as much as possible) to your self-centered worldview, which means you’re going to be a sexually heterodox female that “marries” a sexually heterodox male, and if you marry a sexually heterodox male, even if you’re not explicitly asking for unfaithfulness, you’re nonetheless making yourself a candidate for it. If you’re going to endorse a degenerate view of the human body, that is going to carry over into what kind of husband (or in this case: human accessory item) you’re looking for. This thread is still focusing on addicts but there’s no reason that it should be. Anybody that consumes pornography in any casual degree is being unfaithful.

I strongly believe in Alexis de Tocqueville’s quote, “A people get the government that they deserve”, and I think this applies just as much to marriage. Or you can go with “Birds of the same feather flock together”. Whichever works.
Yeah. Ok I guess I see what you’re saying here. And maybe you have this part a bit right. But I mean what I was saying is that for the 45% of women who don’t vote this way, who didn’t think they’d be getting into that kind of relationship, I think it’s probably fair to say a lot of them didn’t realize a lot of men were like this. I mean I had a totally different issue that I never told my wife about. It was something that had been bothering me for a few years. Something I could never tell her about. And I mean that really made things unfair for her. That made it so that she married what she thought she knew and ended up with me instead.

So I know all about abusing a person’s trust for my own selfish interest. I know all about making someone think I was other than I was. I know all about hiding stuff. I was pretty good at it. But in the end I couldn’t keep up the facade. In the end I broke down a bit. In the end I sort of came unglued. And then I wrecked everything. I thought I could control it with alcohol. But I couldn’t. So instead I pushed her away enough times until she gave up on me. She really had no other choice. I never gave her another option.

But she was a good person. She didn’t deserve what I did. And now we both have to live with that. So yeah. I feel bad for the women involved. They don’t always know what’s going on.

Peace.

-Trident
 
I suppose my unpopular and factually correct view that some female members might be unhappy with is: women are not incompetent. They are intelligent creatures. For the majority of women in these situations, it is to some extent their fault that they’re stuck with a husband that masturbates to porn, which puts them in an awkward situation to shut the conjugal life of the marriage down. They saw the red flags and they chose to ignore them because of moral weakness and willful ignorance. They are culpable for that, they are directly culpable for the suffering & consequences it has on the children they willfully chose to have with the man, and if they want to salvage the relationship later, it’s going to involve suffering on their part, and it is suffering which they created with their own two hands.

I’m going to end my discussion here. Your reputation precedes you and I know the dialogue here isn’t going to make any ground.
Your views are objectionable in the extreme and totally disconnected from logic, medical science around addiction, and the teachings of the Catholic faith. Please do us all a favour and stop spouting your poisonous lies. You are fooling no one but yourself.
 
Your views are objectionable in the extreme and totally disconnected from logic, medical science around addiction, and the teachings of the Catholic faith. Please do us all a favour and stop spouting your poisonous lies. You are fooling no one but yourself.
I think one ought to care relatively little about the “addiction” part here, since it is secondary. Any porn consumption is perfectly adequate to constitute grave matter. I’d even argue that actual hardcore addiction is a lesser problem in so far as it directly affects a marriage / resemblance of a marriage. Men that are addicted to porn in the sense that they’re stuck in front of the computer for hours on end every day often don’t get into relationships in the first place. It’s the ones that use it casually or sporadically from time to time that are still pursuing flesh & blood women. Or they incorporate it with their female partner as an attempt to further excite the relationship; not uncommon.

I think I’m able to fool a great deal of people other than myself with my poisonous lies - albeit I suspect not somebody that chose the username “alphawoman” - because I think most people believe that evils don’t exist on little islands that don’t in anyway beget one another. Willfully placing yourself in close proximity to sin is going to make you suffer the effects of that sin. If you’re a secular liberal, pro-choice, pro-contraception, Wiccan-esque contemporary woman, you’re going to marry men of similar depraved disposition, and said men - like the woman herself - have a deeply compromised ability to act with charity and selflessness. It might not be specifically pornography, but the marriage - or relationship - is not going to be very well guarded.

For all the harm it does, this actually saves marriage from getting into more trouble than what it is already in. The bad eggs naturally stick together, which reduces the number of people in relationships with a distinct victim and a distinct perp. If there is a grievous concealment taking place, that can be easy grounds for annulment.
 
I am going to back-pedal here and say, on my part that until I just now went back in pages, I did not follow the progression of this thread and instead responded to isolated posts. Having looked back on it, I see that several members here (besides the OP who has been inactive) are giving their personal testimonies to their own struggles & pains with pornography in their marriage and that this subject is sensitive to them in a very personal way. I have been very poor in responding to them appropriately, and for that I am heartily sorry. This is not a subject that affects me in such a personal way, other than my consumption with pornography as a single, irreligious guy that - by God’s mercy on me - broke away from the spell overnight after I put up software protection and discarded the password. I hope that my callousness may be forgotten, and I wish you all well in overcoming these struggles or, if they have been conquered, that they remain in the past.

I have not really been focused on personal accounts throughout this thread and have been speaking in the general sense (which I suppose some members here may still virulently disagree with me on) in that I see all sexual sin as being interlinked in a society. I do maintain the view that a sexual deviant woman is culpable in the sins of the man she chooses to be with (and vice versa), since human beings are social creatures and they feed on each others’ behaviors. To condone one sexual sin is to implicitly encourage all other sins as well.

This is a CAF forum though, and the poster’s here are all speaking from a personal perspective on women trapped in a relationship where their husband fell into pornography post-marriage.

If we can go back to this topic: this isn’t something I have spent time studying and my view on page 1 is basically exclusively formed off the two accounts I read from St Monica and St Rita, who maintained conjugal relations with their unfaithful spouses. This might not be the wisest approach in all situations though, and specifically with the chemically addictive thrill of pornography the man may require a sustained “cold turkey” time. I don’t know.
 
If it were me I would continue to be intimate with my wife. I wouldn’t deny her sex as a way to punish her or exert some control over the situation. I’m sure that porn use would lead to enough feelings of shame without adding fuel to the fire by denying intimacy at a time when she would need it the most.
 
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