Would you support it if the Civil Law Give Right for Husband to Consent to/ Forbid Wife's Abortion

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All marriage assumes sex between husband and wife, therefore assumes possibility of pregnancy
 
Anicette said:
Nothing. There is no procedure to proove that he is not the father.
Consent would be asked.
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Yeah, so why does he have a right to the child and not the real father? That’s the whole point.

If his consent is asked, he’s probably going to be duped into thinking that’s his kid. Unless the wife is willing to open up. If he knew, I mean he would obviously consent to the abortion because he wouldn’t want to raise the child up.

But the main point again, is why should a guy have the right to consent to an abortion that has nothing to do with him.

Ultimately it’s just a really stupid law that would create a mess.
 
Sarcelle said:
The lies can be countered by dna tests.
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Not until the fetus is much older, or even born. I believe paternal testing in utero is dangerous. Someone needs to check up on that.
francisca.chapter3 said:
Marriage assumes the couple want children.
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In Catholic marriages sure. But this isn’t a theocracy.
francisca.chapter3 said:
The excuse husband force her, need to be proven with signs of violence. Otherwise it is normal so long husband & wife have sex with or without contraception, pregnancy is still possible.
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You’re basically forcing them to immediately file a report against their husbands to get the abortions that they want.

This also assumes that you will get the evidence for rape, and it’s usually difficult to prove it especially when the attacker is in an intimate relationship with the victim.

It’s just such an impractical and useless law!
 
I would reply the following:

So, if I follow this logic, why a husband who has not (presumely) fathered the child of his wife, but her lover would be automatically considered as the legal father regarless of the biology?

Because this this how the marriage works. the husband is presumed to be the father, the DNA has nothing to do with that. It protects the family integrity and the equal right of each child born into wedlock.
Lea101 said:
But the main point again, is why should a guy have the right to consent to an abortion that has nothing to do with him.
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Do you think DNA and conception is more important than a marriage, and that all the children born in it would be treated the same? Is that right than the first one has two parents, and the second has only a mother because of an adultery while the two adults stay married?

With your argument who would conclude that it is stupid that the husband is the father, but it is how the christian society had worked for many centuries…

“Lea101 said:
Not until the fetus is much older, or even born. I believe paternal testing in utero is dangerous. Someone needs to check up on that.

Oh, I totally agree with that, no DNA test dor a foetus!
More it would ba an abuse of power.
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Lifeisbeautiful3 said:
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francisca.chapter3:
All marriage assumes sex between husband and wife
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Not between Mary and Joseph…
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Well, that is another separate thread to argue

We are talking about what constitutes marriage now.
 
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If the wife commit adultery, but the husband decline abortion, then he will raise it as his own, with his knowledge or without, it is not for the state to interfere between husband & wife.

If the other man shows up, and he do not want the child, it still is up to the married couple what they want to do next.

If husband divorce the wife, then she can sign the abortion form with single signature, or give the baby for adoption, or she raise it on her own.

The other man will remain out of the picture. Unless he (the other man) also want his child, then in this scenario, there will be no abortion too.
 
I would ask a few questions before you consider this change to the law.

For one, how would you enforce this? If a man and woman agree to an abortion, but then the relationship breaks down and he later retracts his consent and claims that the abortion happened against his wishes, how would you decide whether or not to punish the woman?

Also, you cannot ignore the fact that reproduction isn’t a 50/50 split in terms of effort. The pregnancy and birth has far wider reaching implications for the woman’s health then that of the man, and as such is it really fair to give him a 50/50 say?

Finally, spousal rape is a thing. What if a husband rapes his wife, then denies to consent to abortion? What then?
 
Polite_Atheist said:
If a man and woman agree to an abortion, but then the relationship breaks down and he later retracts his consent and claims that the abortion happened against his wishes
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He will not se able to retract his consent after the abortion is done. His signature on the form is the evidence of his approval for the abortion
Polite_Atheist said:
The pregnancy and birth has far wider reaching implications for the woman’s health then that of the man, and as such is it really fair to give him a 50/50 say?
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It is about the life of their child that they need to decide together as parents.
Polite_Atheist said:
What if a husband rapes his wife, then denies to consent to abortion? What then?
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I am not an expert in this. But marriage assumes regular sex. What’s constitute rape within marriage should include physical violence. It should be proven with medical report.

If husband and wife bickering or even abusive words cannot get any woman pregnant, I suppose. So abuse of words is considered abusive relationship. But rape within marriage has to have physical evidence. Its not like boyfriend pressurize his girlfriend to have sex. Marriage assumes sex.
 
Lea101 said:
Yeah, so why does he have a right to the child and not the real father? That’s the whole point.
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If the other man shows up, what will he say?
“I slept with your wife, I assume her pregnancy is my child” ? How can he be sure she does not sleep with her husband as well? He cannot know. The whole situation will have to favor the married couple. This is married couple privacy protection.
 
Just to clear up the DNA testing on a fetus…as early as the 8th week.
 
francisca.chapter3 said:
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DarkLight:
Most rapes don’t leave any signs of violence.
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Then it may not be rape.

Remember marriage assumes regular sex. If everytime rape instead of sex, she should divorce him.
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What this is showing is mostly that you have a very poor understanding of domestic violence. I’d recommend looking up a few articles on why victims don’t “just leave” before pushing this line.
 
DarkLight said:
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francisca.chapter3:
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DarkLight:
Most rapes don’t leave any signs of violence.
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Then it may not be rape.

Remember marriage assumes regular sex. If everytime rape instead of sex, she should divorce him.
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What this is showing is mostly that you have a very poor understanding of domestic violence. I’d recommend looking up a few articles on why victims don’t “just leave” before pushing this line.
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I do read that women in abusive relationship tend to become powerless so they stay despite abuse.

However, as I said, abusive relationship does not necessarily include rape. And rape within marriage should include evidence of forced sex.

I would like to hear opinion of those who thinks woman have to carry the foetus of the rapist. Well, in this example, the worst case, the alleged rapist is her own husband. She has to prove it. Seek help, for the sake of her own good and her children.
 
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Someone who has a history of being threatening will not use violence every time, or even most of the time. Even in rapes outside of marriage or dating situations, it’s common for threatened violence to be used. Just the threat is enough, so the victim gives in and doesn’t fight back. Or the victim is asleep or otherwise not in a position to resist.

Rapes that leave clear signs of violence are a vanishingly small proportion of the total.
 
Rape within marriage that result in pregnancy with no signs of violence whatsoever, that foetus is not guilty of whatever the couple are quarreling about. It is the sibling of the other children of that marriage. The husband is not any man on the street forcing her for sex. She live with him 24hours a day. She need to prove it.
 
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This is really starting to sound like you want a back door into claiming domestic violence isn’t a real issue. Equating marital rape with a quarrel, really? And the original point here was that abusive men will deliberately use pregnancy to trap a woman and make her dependent on him.

FYI the vast majority of rapists are known to the victim.

If it’s based on the child’s right to life, then base your argument on that. Not on some stuff about the rights of a man over his wife.
 
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This is what I call a “what if” question, which fails to look at the whole of jurisprudence to determine what else might have to be brought in/corrected/changed/eliminated to accommodate such a change.
 
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