Would you support military action in the US to end abortion?

[Verisimilitude]

Many support using our military to save others even if it causes the death of some innocent people. I have been told it is our (US) ‘Christian duty’ to ‘finish the job’, and ‘prevent mass killing’ of innocent Iraqi’s if we pull our troops out too early. Using the military to save others is a good thing isn’t it?

How many Iraqis have died since 2003? (Estimates vary: 90,000 to in the hundreds of thousands civilians) Are all 27 million equally free now as we think of freedom? If you hold the we broke it and must buy/fix it attitude, shouldn’t we at least get what we want? Are you?

How may Iraqis died during the UN embargo which began after the first Gulf War?
Estimates of direct casualties of the sanctions remain a highly contested subject. An short overview of claims:[28]
• “probably … 170,000 children” (Project on Defense Alternatives, “The Wages of War”, 20. October 2003)
• 350,000 excess deaths among children “even using conservative estimates” (Slate Explainer, “Are 1 Million Children Dying in Iraq?”, 9. October 2001)
• United Nations: 1,000,000 Iraqis (CNN, “Iraq condemns embargo on 9th anniversary of sanctions”, 6. August 1999)
• Iraqi Baathist Al-Thawra newspaper: 1.5 million (CNN, 6. August 1999)
• Ramsey Clark: 1.5 million (includes sanctions, bombs and other weapons, depleted uranium poisoning) (The Wisdom Fund, “Former US Attorney General Charges US, British and UN Leaders,” 20. November 1996)
• Iraqi Cultural Minister Hammadi: 1.7 million (includes sanctions, bombs and other weapons, depleted uranium poisoning) (“Iraq criticizes US, UK at Baghdad Conference…” 10. May 2001)
• Journalist Matt Welch, Reason Magazine, 2002: “It seems awfully hard not to conclude that the embargo on Iraq has … contributed to more than 100,000 deaths since 1990.”[14]

How many died from the weapons we sold Saddam in the 80’s?
How many Iraqis would die if we pull out now? (I can’t find a projected estimate and my crystal ball isn’t working. If someone that supports staying in Iraq to prevent a lot of death, please tell me what a lot is so I can compare it with those that have already occurred. Thanks)
What is the ratio of dead innocent Iraqis to dead ‘terrorists’ in Iraq that makes it worthwhile to continue:5 to 1?

How many abortions in America? Some statistics are about 800,000 to 900,000 per year and a total of over 50 million since 1973.

I can’t think of a greater national interest than our future/children, or a more noble Christian cause to end infanticide. Maybe we should ask another country to help us since our military is helping others right now. Half of Mexico is already here, so why not their military? We would pay for it of course. We can borrow more from China if we need to. They already give us money so we can give it to Pakistan and Egypt so the loan is just for a longer term. Your great grand-kids will finish paying off the loan maybe…if they don’t suffer the fate of an abortion.

So let’s end abortion and use the military to do it unless we are worth less than Iraqis and oil. If that is the case maybe we should just vote for the lesser of two evils.

If this is a new form of ‘love your neighbor as yourself’ we should love ourselves more and hate our enemies less.

 

[SanJudas]

So let’s end abortion and use the military to do it

How? Bomb abortion clinics? Send Marines in to arrest the doctors?

Our military forces are not police officers. We have to make abortion illegal, then we can aprehend, charge, and try the perpetrators.

How to make abortion illegal? How did the Eastern Europeans bring down the Berlin Wall? How did African-Americans gain voting rights in the 50’s and 60’s? Get millions of people marching, get some celebrities on your side, make it “cool” to “Save the Babies,” and pray.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

No, no need to impose a virtual or actual police state, that is a major over-reaction.

 

[KathleenElsie]

How? Bomb abortion clinics? Send Marines in to arrest the doctors?

Our military forces are not police officers. FIRST We have to make abortion illegal, then we can aprehend, charge, and try the perpetrators.

How to make abortion illegal? How did the Eastern Europeans bring down the Berlin Wall? How did African-Americans gain voting rights in the 50’s and 60’s? Get millions of people marching, get some celebrities on your side, make it “cool” to “Save the Babies,” and pray.

Good post.

 

[Verisimilitude]

How? Bomb abortion clinics? Send Marines in to arrest the doctors?

It’s working in Iraq isn’t it? House by house serches for abortionists in America like looking for insurgents in Iraq. More are dying in Americas abortion clinics than Iraqi neighborhoods.

Our military forces are not police officers. We have to make abortion illegal, then we can aprehend, charge, and try the perpetrators.

Our military is building schools in Iraq for Iraqi children. Ours must not rate.

How to make abortion illegal? How did the Eastern Europeans bring down the Berlin Wall? How did African-Americans gain voting rights in the 50’s and 60’s? Get millions of people marching, get some celebrities on your side, make it “cool” to “Save the Babies,” and pray.

I like your style. I actually voted no, and leave Iraq now.

 

[Verisimilitude]

No, no need to impose a virtual or actual police state, that is a major over-reaction.

Is it ok to make a police state (our soldiers as police) in Iraq to save them?

 

[larsegarots]

I would definitely not support using our military to attack people not breaking the law. That would be some kind of mutiny. Making abortion illegal would be the first step. The second step would be prosecuting those breaking the law in the same matter that all other crimes are handled in this country.

 

[SanJudas]

It’s working in Iraq isn’t it? House by house serches for abortionists in America like looking for insurgents in Iraq. More are dying in Americas abortion clinics than Iraqi neighborhoods.

Our military is building schools in Iraq for Iraqi children. Ours must not rate.

I agree here with your assessment. I think our government has its priorities wrong.

I like your style. I actually voted no, and leave Iraq now.

Thank you. I don’t know if we can get out of Iraq so quickly at this point, but I do believe that we need to take care of things here at home before worrying about everybody else’s “freedom and democracy.” And before someone accuses me of not caring about other peoples in the world, let me say that I believe the best way for others to achieve freedom is to fight for it themselves, the way we did, without our or anybody else’s interference. By interference, I mean not only from other countries, but from some of our own business interests.

Who knows? We may have to fight for our own freedom again someday. I hope we don’t need the Chinese or Russians or EU to invade us to “help” us get it.

 

[goofyjim]

I would not support it at all. Instead let’s help those who are pregnant with funding to bring the child to life. Even just making it illegal won’t do the trick. We must eliminate the shame that goes with an out of wedlock pregnancy and create an atmosphere of life, not just demand it by law.

 

[SanJudas]

I would not support it at all. Instead let’s help those who are pregnant with funding to bring the child to life. Even just making it illegal won’t do the trick. We must eliminate the shame that goes with an out of wedlock pregnancy and create an atmosphere of life, not just demand it by law.

Good point, goofy. Making abortion illegal is only Step One. If we don’t take those other steps we’ll eventually be right back where we started from–with a great outcry to legalize abortion based on concern for all the “unwanted children” and “socially-stigmatized unwed mothers.”

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Is it ok to make a police state (our soldiers as police) in Iraq to save them?

I never supported anything related to Iraq from the start with how it was handled a few years ago.

 

[Biggie]

Let’s use the vote and the law to end abortion in America. The US has the third greastest number of Catholics in the world, 61 million, that comprise 26% of the population. Catholicism is the largest single religious denomination in the country. If abortion remains legal in America, it is the fault of US Catholics who do not vote and legislate their beliefs and American Catholics will be called to account by Our Lord, perhaps even before the abortionists and certainly before the poor women who, in the end, are the victims of legalized abortion.

I blame Catholics, who have allowed this to continue - afraid to proclaim opposition in our churches, obfuscating and confusing the issue, afraid to cut off from the faith those who vote time and again against life issues for political reasons and call themselves Catholic. We don’t need the army to end abortion; we just need a voting Catholic conscience.

 

[vz71]

It would be a misuse of the military to use it against US citizens.
Also, abortion is currently the law of the land. What should we do besides make abortion illegal and then prosecute those that continue the (then illegal) practice.

 

[Verisimilitude]

It would be a misuse of the military to use it against US citizens.

I suggested the Mexican military. Different legal issue. Why not them?

Also, abortion is currently the law of the land.

Saddam was law in his land. Both were/are wrong.

What should we do besides make abortion illegal and then prosecute those that continue the (then illegal) practice.

Almost a million babies are killed each year in America. A few hundred a month in Iraq. How do you prioritize them?

 

[ribozyme]

Great!! A military junta to stop abortions!! Recently in this forum someone defended the regime of Augusto Pinochet so I guess it would be a popular idea among Catholics.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Great!! A military junta to stop abortions!!

It’s working in Iraq to stop terrorists. Isn’t it? I hope you voted no then.

Recently in this forum someone defended the regime of Augusto Pinochet so I guess it would be a popular idea among Catholics.

Are you one of those who think abortion killing is different from war killing? You support abortion though, correct? So war killing might be worse in your view, I don’t know.

The results are interesting so far. The most interesting to me are the votes for the military is to protect others.

 

[vz71]

I suggested the Mexican military. Different legal issue. Why not them?

Other then being illegal?

Saddam was law in his land. Both were/are wrong.

True enough, however toppling Saddam is as easy as toppling a single man (and his army). Who would you suggest be toppled to make abortion illegal?

A connection between Iraq and abortion does not make any sense.

Almost a million babies are killed each year in America. A few hundred a month in Iraq. How do you prioritize them?

So what exactly are you suggesting be done about the million babies killed in America that has not already been suggested?
As for the Iraqis, it is an apples and oranges comparison.

 

[vz71]

It’s working in Iraq to stop terrorists. Isn’t it?

I believe there is a big difference between military action to support and enforce laws and a military action to bring about new laws.
After all, once an illegal military campaign is waged to change laws in an illegal fashion, I doubt the new law outlawing abortion would mean much.

Outlawing abortion must be done in a legal fashion.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Other then being illegal?

The President could invite them and make it legal. He can take us to war without Congress so why not invite the Mexican military? He has allowed Mexican trucking companies special access American truckers aren’t happy about, but good thing Mexico is as reliable inspecting vehicles coming into America as we are, huh?

True enough, however toppling Saddam is as easy as toppling a single man (and his army). Who would you suggest be toppled to make abortion illegal?

Yea, we accomplished the mission years ago, why stay? (save it, we already went over that-let me know when you change your mind.) Congress.

A connection between Iraq and abortion does not make any sense.

Deaths of human beings in large numbers that could be prevented. It’s a special club. The monotheistic God has a monohumanistic view…if that is a word, but I bet you get mmy meaning regarding human life.

So what exactly are you suggesting be done about the million babies killed in America that has not already been suggested?

Draw a line in the sand as Catholics if not Americcans regarding abortion and have a zero tolerance.

As for the Iraqis, it is an apples and oranges comparison.

Why? Aren’t both about protecting innocent human life?

 

[Verisimilitude]

I believe there is a big difference between military action to support and enforce laws and a military action to bring about new laws.

We are doing both in Iraq. The political legality of our actions is justifiably in doubt.

After all, once an illegal military campaign is waged to change laws in an illegal fashion, I doubt the new law outlawing abortion would mean much.

The new law in Iraq doesn’t mean much either. See, this is how they relate to each other.

Outlawing abortion must be done in a legal fashion.

So must the waging of war. The problem is Congress won’t bring to a vote things like the Sanctity of Life Act to end abortion because of personality and petty political reasons, but will give the Executive branch its sole legal authority to wage war.