Would you take your children to visit the Ark in Kentucky?

[SyroMalankara]

Just because it is unpopular does not mean it is worthy of ridicule on CAF. I expect that kind of behavior on less savory places on the web, but here?

The ridicule here is not about Catholic views of Creationism or Evolution, but Ken Ham and his Ark.

 

[cfauster]

It is correct. Some scientists will claim no more than 50,000 years some 60,000 years but no fossil can be dated 100,000 or into the millions. Because of this they must date fossils based on where it is found in the geological column and dating rocks has some serious problems that are based on many assumptions.

From this site:

“Over time, the carbon-14 decays into nitrogen-14; half will do so after about 5,730 years (this is the isotope’s half-life). After about 60,000 years, all of the carbon-14 will be gone…Radiocarbon dating works well for some archaeological finds, but it has limitations: it can be used to date only organic materials less than about 60,000 years old”

smithsonianmag.com/history/showing-their-age-62874/?no-ist

Each radioactive isotope has it’s own half-life and thus range of time over which it is useful for dating fossils. Carbon-14 is one of several isotopes used for dating fossils and rocks. And of course, decay of radioactive isotopes is only one way to date fossils and rocks.

anthro.palomar.edu/time/time_4.htm

and

anthro.palomar.edu/time/time_5.htm

are helpful.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

It is correct. Some scientists will claim no more than 50,000 years some 60,000 years but no fossil can be dated 100,000 or into the millions. Because of this they must date fossils based on where it is found in the geological column and dating rocks has some serious problems that are based on many assumptions.

From this site:

“Over time, the carbon-14 decays into nitrogen-14; half will do so after about 5,730 years (this is the isotope’s half-life). After about 60,000 years, all of the carbon-14 will be gone…Radiocarbon dating works well for some archaeological finds, but it has limitations: it can be used to date only organic materials less than about 60,000 years old”

smithsonianmag.com/history/showing-their-age-62874/?no-ist

Your broad claim was that it is impossible to date any fossil beyond 50,000 BP, not the more specific limitation with carbon dating’s utility. There are other radiometric isotopes with significantly larger half-lives than carbon used for dating specimens into the millions of years (e.g. U-series testing for carbonate), and also other methods for such dating that don’t use radioactive atomic isotopes at all (e.g. electron spin resonance for free radicals). Some of these alternatives are significantly broader in scope and can date specimens with significantly better precision (e.g. amino acid racemization)

 

[TMC]

For Catholics, there is no theological reason to believe in YEC. I have not seen any scientific defense of YEC that I found even remotely persuasive. That said, if a Catholic nonetheless wants to believe in YEC, I suppose that is their business.

 

[Padres1969]

After sitting on the question a week I’ve decided that no I would not take my kids to this, even if we were driving by the area. Considering it’s bad science and it does nothing to actually lend any credibility to the Noah’s ark story I don’t see the point.

If I wanted to show my kid(s) something that might lend some credibility to at least the background of the Noah’s ark story I’d show them the documentary I saw a number of years back combing for evidence that the Black Sea deluge hypothesis and the subsequent rapid flooding of the Mediterranean/Aegean Seas into the Black Sea may have actually been the factual biblical flood (as well as the flood in the Epic of Gilgamesh, Atra-Hasis as well as possibly other Flood retellings/myths/writings). Or other scientifically interesting and backed instances of the ancients and “evidences” of floods such as seashells fossils inland and the like caused by changes in sea levels and movement of prehistoric ocean floors due to plate tectonics.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I said witness, not experience. Of course not me, but I didnt see them harassing anyone else either who was not a protestant.

That’s one of the troubles with bullying in these types of settings, it is rarely seen as such by the “in group”. More often it is viewed as teaching the lost where they went wrong.

 

[StephieNorthCo]

That’s one of the troubles with bullying in these types of settings, it is rarely seen as such by the “in group”. More often it is viewed as teaching the lost where they went wrong.

I guess I have gotten rather immune to that sort of activity from both sides. I guess that’s why I enjoyed my visit to the Ark.

Having said that, I tend to lean towards young Earth, but absolutely none of the arguments given at the Ark or Creation Museum were compelling. Moreover, as I mentioned in a previous post, youngsters are going to see through them as they become adults, and the results are not generally positive.

Having said THAT, I am Catholic, and do not hide the fact. True, I do not wear a blouse or skirt that has Catholic Girl written on it. But nevertheless, just because Frank Zappa had a song that spoofed us doesn’t mean I boycott his interesting music. I think analogy applies.

Blessings,
Stephie

 

[zaffiroborant]

I guess I have gotten rather immune to that sort of activity from both sides. I guess that’s why I enjoyed my visit to the Ark.

Having said that, I tend to lean towards young Earth, but absolutely none of the arguments given at the Ark or Creation Museum were compelling. Moreover, as I mentioned in a previous post, youngsters are going to see through them as they become adults, and the results are not generally positive.

Having said THAT, I am Catholic, and do not hide the fact. True, I do not wear a blouse or skirt that has Catholic Girl written on it. But nevertheless, just because Frank Zappa had a song that spoofed us doesn’t mean I boycott his interesting music. I think analogy applies.

Blessings,
Stephie

No the “analogy” does not apply, Frank Zappa spoofing Catholics is not the same as hounding a high school girl, reducing her to tears, following her to her car, holding her by the arm to make her listen. Clue here “spoofing” doesn’t reach physical levels where law-enforcement gets involved.

 

[benhur]

Does anyone have an answer as to what was the light on day one ,for the sun, moon and stars were created several days later. And how could vegetation grow , for they were before the sun ?

 

[LutheranScholar]

Personally, I am a little perturbed about the unicorn and the dinosaurs on the ark. I would not take children there unless I could explain how the Catholic views the story of Noah’s ark (Catholics inherited our approach from the Jewish traditional understanding). I would be sure to explain how our views differ from the ‘bible alone, literal translation’ version presented at this theme park.

Would you visit? How does your religion approach the story of Noah?

arkencounter.com/

The LCMS accepts as literal the account of Noah and the Ark. I’ve been studying haplotypes this week and what that seems to confirm for me is ( like the Bible says) that we as a species are also a huge family. My Y-DNA, I1, would theoretically put my ancient “clan father” in Denmark, or elsewhere in South Scandinavia, while my mtDNA, K2, would apparently put my ancient " clan mother" in what is now northeast Italy ( compliments to 23andMe and the work of Brian Sykes). So, I’d be a European clustered cousin who would be part of a Eurasian super haplotype that would itself have an African antecedent. How does this relate to Noah’s Ark?

I think it relates to our having a common ancestor whose progeny spread from the Middle East to Asia, Europe, the Americas and finally Polynesia and that progeny being marked genetically. How would the Ark tale explain the existence of the Australian Aborigines, I don’t know. I DO know that I highly doubt that my daughter would care too much about visiting a park like this. She would pepper the staff with rapid fire questions and insist on evidence and proof of the truth of what these guys are saying. I don’t know how long we’d last in a park like that.

 

[StephieNorthCo]

No the “analogy” does not apply, Frank Zappa spoofing Catholics is not the same as hounding a high school girl, reducing her to tears, following her to her car, holding her by the arm to make her listen. Clue here “spoofing” doesn’t reach physical levels where law-enforcement gets involved.

I guess my physical stature (let’s just say I’m not dimunitive ), MIGHT have kept that sort of bullying down. I found nothing but respect in my trip thru the Ark, even though it was (or should have been) evident by my reactions to some of the items/events presented.

OTOH, I was physically thrown down a flight of stairs in Catholic grade school, for not bowing to peer pressure. So I guess ones experiences tempers ones attitudes.

Had the events you described happen to me, I hope I would react as Christ would want me to. Would i? I don’t know, but I sure hope I would.

Blessings,
Stephie

 

[cfauster]

Does anyone have an answer as to what was the light on day one ,for the sun, moon and stars were created several days later. And how could vegetation grow , for they were before the sun ?

Augustine (and many others) have asked “why the particular creations of each day?” For example, why were the sun and moon created on the fourth day?

For centuries - probably preceding even the New Testament - people studying the Old Testament noted that the first three days of creation report God creating habitations, and the second three days of creation report God creating inhabitants. The inhabitants (sun, moon, and stars) created on the fourth day were placed in homes created on the first day (day and night). The inhabitants created on the fifth day (birds and fish) were placed in homes created on the second day (sky and seas). Finally, the inhabitants created on the sixth day (land animals, and humans) were placed on land, which was created on the third day.

By the way, the answers given by the early church fathers seem, to me, much more astute than the answers you would find from contemporary proponents of reading Genesis 1 as historical science.

Creation and Genesis (Catholic Answers) quotes from many Church Fathers, including St. Augustine.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I guess my physical stature (let’s just say I’m not dimunitive ), MIGHT have kept that sort of bullying down. I found nothing but respect in my trip thru the Ark, even though it was (or should have been) evident by my reactions to some of the items/events presented.

OTOH, I was physically thrown down a flight of stairs in Catholic grade school, for not bowing to peer pressure. So I guess ones experiences tempers ones attitudes.

Had the events you described happen to me, I hope I would react as Christ would want me to. Would i? I don’t know, but I sure hope I would.

Blessings,
Stephie

How do you suppose Christ would want a 16 year old girl to act when she is being shaken by one arm by a mid 20 year old who is yelling in her face?

 

[StephieNorthCo]

How do you suppose Christ would want a 16 year old girl to act when she is being shaken by one arm by a mid 20 year old who is yelling in her face?

As I mentioned above, since that particular act did not happen to me, the answer remains: I don’t know. What I do know is that we, all of us, are given Spiritual help by the Holy Spirit in those situations, just as indicated in Acts.

I know I was given spiritual help in the incident I reported. That was long enough ago that I remember the incident only from a permanently damaged back, that serves to remind me to trust Our Lord, nothing more. Perhaps THAT was the “take away” from that incident. Don’t know. It’s on my bucket list of things to ask God when I get upstairs.

Blessings,
Stephie

 

[benhur]

Augustine (and many others) have asked “why the particular creations of each day?” For example, why were the sun and moon created on the fourth day?

For centuries - probably preceding even the New Testament - people studying the Old Testament noted that the first three days of creation report God creating habitations, and the second three days of creation report God creating inhabitants. The inhabitants (sun, moon, and stars) created on the fourth day were placed in homes created on the first day (day and night). The inhabitants created on the fifth day (birds and fish) were placed in homes created on the second day (sky and seas). Finally, the inhabitants created on the sixth day (land animals, and humans) were placed on land, which was created on the third day.

By the way, the answers given by the early church fathers seem, to me, much more astute than the answers you would find from contemporary proponents of reading Genesis 1 as historical science.

Creation and Genesis (Catholic Answers) quotes from many Church Fathers, including St. Augustine.

ok thanks you. I always referred to the light in day one as his “shop light”, probably done away with after finishing His project.

 

[Kielbasi]

Personally, I am a little perturbed about the unicorn and the dinosaurs on the ark. I would not take children there unless I could explain how the Catholic views the story of Noah’s ark (Catholics inherited our approach from the Jewish traditional understanding).

How do you see the Catholic version of the Noah and Ark narrative as being substantially different than that of this Kentucky gentleman’s?

Pope Boniface VIII in his bull , Unam sanctum wrote :

“In this Church there is one Lord, one Faith, and one Baptism. There was one ark of Noah, indeed at the time of the flood, symbolizing one Church; and this being finished in one cubit had, namely, one Noah as helmsman and commander. And, with the exception of this ark, all things existing upon the earth were, as we read, destroyed."

As far as whether dinosaurs and/or unicorns existed at the time of Noah, I don’t know what difference it could possibly make- just doesn’t seem that important.

 

[TMC]

How do you see the Catholic version of the Noah and Ark narrative as being substantially different than that of this Kentucky gentleman’s?

Pope Boniface VIII in his bull , Unam sanctum wrote :

“In this Church there is one Lord, one Faith, and one Baptism. There was one ark of Noah, indeed at the time of the flood, symbolizing one Church; and this being finished in one cubit had, namely, one Noah as helmsman and commander. And, with the exception of this ark, all things existing upon the earth were, as we read, destroyed."

As far as whether dinosaurs and/or unicorns existed at the time of Noah, I don’t know what difference it could possibly make- just doesn’t seem that important.

That was, what, 800 years ago? The Church does not teach a literal interpretation of the biblical account of Noah and the Ark.

 

[cfauster]

Pope Boniface VIII in his bull , Unam sanctum wrote :

“In this Church there is one Lord, one Faith, and one Baptism. There was one ark of Noah, indeed at the time of the flood, symbolizing one Church; and this being finished in one cubit had, namely, one Noah as helmsman and commander. And, with the exception of this ark, all things existing upon the earth were, as we read, destroyed."

I would not be surprised to see several papal documents of similar age (this one published in 1302) referring to the flood and the destruction it caused as literally global, historically factual in every detail, etc.

My understanding of the RC position, however, is that Catholics are not obligated to interpret everything in Genesis 1-11 as historically factual in every detail.

By the way, the bull is very interesting in its own historical context.

 

[Kielbasi]

I would not be surprised to see several papal documents of similar age (this one published in 1302) referring to the flood and the destruction it caused as literally global, historically factual in every detail, etc.

My understanding of the RC position, however, is that Catholics are not obligated to interpret everything in Genesis 1-11 as historically factual in every detail.

That’s fair enough, but a historically factual view of the Noah flood isn’t alien to the Catholic teaching either.

 

[Kotton]

*Originally Posted by Catholic farmer View Post
Personally, I am a little perturbed about the unicorn and the dinosaurs on the ark. I would not take children there unless I could explain how the Catholic views the story of Noah’s ark (Catholics inherited our approach from the Jewish traditional understanding). I would be sure to explain how our views differ from the ‘bible alone, literal translation’ version presented at this theme park.

Would you visit? How does your religion approach the story of Noah?

arkencounter.com/*

I never saw a unicorn on the Ark but there was dinisaurs. Why not? The Bible does mention Unicorns but we don’t know what that was.I found no problem with the display and their ‘bible only’ views didn’t bother me.