Would you work for the Church?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Xanthippe_Voorhees
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
X

Xanthippe_Voorhees

Guest
In a few threads, church expenditures have been discussed.

Which makes me curious.

For those of you who are professional (NOT amateur) at a job…music, education, technology, repairs—do you feel as if the Church supports your careers? If you’ve worked for the Catholic Church are you compensated at a better or worse rate than in other venues?

I know for my family members, the church didn’t even offer near a living wage, nor competitive wage to play music. They often chose the cheaper DRE over one more educated. They would call the cheaper plumber over the parishioner even if they knew he wasn’t as reliable. They would create a buggy website for free rather than just, again, pay a skilled parishioner to do the work (probably the same cost in the end).

The bishop has tried to remedy this by ensuring that the cathedral operates above par. No volunteer-run anything. There is always a skilled, employed staff member on hand. Voulenteers report to them. Expensive, but that church is SO different.

Now, not all churches are the cathedral and have the funds to run as such.

But I do think of my family members who have to work for protestant places because the Church wants them to work for free—

—then preaches about social justice and fair wages.
 
Last edited:
If you are a Christian you work for the Church just by being, walking down the street, getting on the bus, saying excuse me. No need to go overboard. 😮 I don’t expect them to pay me. I am not surprised you don’t make a living wage working for the Church. You are living off the parishioners. St. Paul made tents, right.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
If you are a Christian you work for the Church just by being, walking down the street, getting on the bus, saying excuse me. No need to go overboard. 😮 I don’t expect them to pay me. I am not surprised you don’t make a living wage working for the Church. You are living off the parishioners. St. Paul made tents, right.
Click to expand...
🤨

That’s not “working for the Church” that’s “living your faith”. What a very skewed notion.
 
M point is if I decided to work for the Church - and I understand what you are talking about - I would do it pretty much as a sacrifice. The RCC is the last place I would expect to pull a good wage - I think that does happen though if you are important enough - but we’ll leave that aside for now. Have you seen St. Peter’s Basilica?
 
FollowChrist34 said:
M point is if I decided to work for the Church - and I understand what you are talking about - I would do it pretty much as a sacrifice. The RCC is the last place I would expect to pull a good wage - I think that does happen though if you are important enough - but we’ll leave that aside for now. Have you seen St. Peter’s Basilica?
Click to expand...
What does the basilica have to do with anything?

I’m not talking raking in the dough. I’m talking a fair and just wage. NPO’s are always going to pay less than the for-profits around them. The concept here is weither or not people feel that those who make their living in trades useful to the church should be properly compensated. I’m especally looking for those who need that compensation to live.
 
The teachers I know who work for the Catholic school are paid less, recieve fewer benefits, and work longer hours than their public colleagues. They love what they do and have a much smaller environment which has it’s own benefits.

A friend of ours worked for a diocese in NYC. He seemed to do well although we could never really figure out what he did. So, maybe he was being paid too much. 😉

My profession is in public accounting; I can’t say I’ve looked a lot for that kind of work in the Church. In areas I have lived those functions have been handled by the Church secretary with a volunteer board headed by a priest; so, I guess you could say that I would be very underpaid if I worked there. 😀
 
I worked as a pastoral associate ages ago, and I received a fair salary for that position, comparable to what I would have likely received elsewhere for similar work and responsibilities. I’ve interviewed for teaching and administration positions with Catholic schools, however, and the pay is typically quite lower. Everything else has always been negotiated as I would expect to do in any environment (musician stipends, for instance).
 
Whether taking a job with the Church, or a secular (public or private sectors) position, a person has to make a decision on compensation. Are we seeking employment doing something we enjoy doing, or are we looking for a paycheck. Neither is wrong. And things changes over time, in accordance with our station in life.

I served 20 years in the military, and I did not stay for the money. Then I gravitated towards education, and teachers pay was not all that lucrative. Later still I entered the manufacturing and my positions commanded a pretty high salary, but I changed positions when I was unhappy…never having stayed simply because the money was good.

Its a choice. A choice for the employer and for the employee.
 
I would be happy to work for the church, and to accept a rate of pay that is slightly less than what I might ordinarily receive in the private sector, or even in a public job in exchange for the benefit of getting to work in an environment where my faith was not only respected but valued.

I am a lawyer. The skills I can offer to a church, or to a diocese are obvious. Sadly enough, when I gently made the suggestion a few years ago that funds could be saved by hiring in-house counsel who would become a specialist in church affairs rather than pouring tons of money into retaining outside counsel, the answer from the top administration officials in this diocese was not only not encouraging, but was frankly insulting.

When you add to that the general unwillingness of officials in my diocese to entertain the opinions of those who disagree with them, and I think it unlikely that there would be a place for me in the church any time soon.
 
I think the hard thing for a Catholic taking a paying job with the Church is that if you get into any type of employment disagreement, you’re going up against the institution that administers the faith that you love.
When it’s a secular employer, you are free to do whatever you have to do, including demand a raise, give notice and quit, sue the company, etc. Those things would be much harder for me to do if my employer was the Catholic Church.

If you just volunteer for the Church, then it greatly reduces the potential areas of conflict such as wages, hours and what you’re expected to do; a volunteer can say no or walk away much more easily.

Edited to add, most of the people I have known who worked for the Catholic Church for pay and were not clergy or religious fell in one or more of the following three categories:
  1. The Catholic church was just one employer and they also worked for other churches (including Protestant) or other employers and were just working for the Church on a part-time basis;
  2. The church had basically taken the person on/ made a job for them when they were in need of some extra income, so it was kind of like charity except the person was working in return for the assistance;
  3. The person was getting a benefit in addition to their paycheck, such as free tuition at the Catholic school for their kids, or a chance to build a resume or take part in other things that interested them.
A huge amount of the parish work at the parish when I was growing up was done by unpaid volunteers, many of whom were retirees or SAHMs who put in enough unpaid hours to make it a part time if not full time job.

This is just referring to Catholic churches. I have less insight into what went on at Catholic schools; a large number of the teachers at mine were either religious sisters, ex-religious sisters, or parishioners when I attended the parish school. At the high school, which was not affiliated with a parish, I think there were also some teachers who were seeking to avoid the bureaucracy of the public schools at the time, as well as be in an atmosphere that was less prone to violence and such.
 
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself said:
I think the hard thing for a Catholic taking a paying job with the Church is that if you get into any type of employment disagreement, you’re going up against the institution that administers the faith that you love.
Click to expand...
I dunno if that’s 100% true. People “understood” when the secretary had to move on for a better paying job, but 6 years later after the volunteer who ran parish dinners stopped doing it, (she did it for about 20 years) she’s still known as “the one who ruined parish dinners”
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
I dunno if that’s 100% true. People “understood” when the secretary had to move on for a better paying job, but 6 years later after the volunteer who ran parish dinners stopped doing it, (she did it for about 20 years) she’s still known as “the one who ruined parish dinners”
Click to expand...
I guess you still have to deal with the interpersonal fallout, but at least she’s not going to end up in court in some kind of employment suit over her failure to run the parish dinners. Nor would she have to deal with the next employer she applies to getting some kind of unfavorable reference from the pastor.
 
You’ve set this up as a false dichotomy. Either hire
skilled people and pay them OR make do with unskilled, cr*ppy volunteers who ruin everything.

This is not an either-or proposition as there are talented and capable people who do provide volunteer skills to churches, Catholic and non-Catholic alike.

Our parish has no employees other than the priest. Every single thing is done volunteer only. Snow plowing, grass cutting, bookkeeping, organ playing, religious education, grave digging— all of it. Heck,
Parishioners built the church itself with their own labor, in 1888 (and yes I understand the many reason that would be nearly impossible today)

We are a small parish, rural but not stupid or ignorant or incapable people. Way back in the day, pre Vatican II, when the parish had Latin mass, the parish had a family that sang the chant, a schola all of men, simple farmers with no professional training but a love of God and a commitment to the parish.

We have a parishioner who is a professional contractor who has supplied men and materials from his crew free to the parish to do small and medium repairs and improvements.

For large capital repairs/improvements when needed— such as the heating system we replaced 3 years ago— we follow the diocesan requirements (and basic common sense) of obtaining multiple bids, checking references, etc.

My former parish is a very large parish with a very large staff, full time DRE, full time organist, full time office staff. So yes, I get it at that size you need some staff and they certainly deserve to be paid a part time or full time wage depending on the scope of their duties. In our diocese full time employees have benefits including health insurance and a 403b so you need to look at total compensation not just wages. However I question the “need” for each parish to have some of these paid positions, a Deanery level shared resource might be a more efficient option in some cases- we have discussed that here with our Deanery.

You really disparaged volunteers in another thread as if they could not possibly be competent. I know plenty of incompetent people on someone’s payroll. And we have excellent volunteers doing vital jobs st the parish, and they are perfectly capable. People volunteer their true talents— even those they are paid for in their jobs such as teacher, etc.
 
I started out after college working for a parish office. The position at that time was part time (with the promise of becoming full time). Pay was above my state’s minimum wage, but my parents still had to help me out for about six months with rent because I was barely making enough to cover it and eat. I actually probably could have qualified for food stamps at that time. After about six months or so, it officially became full time and I was given a slight raise, which helped a lot. While perhaps not the best financial situation, I learned a lot, made contacts within the diocese, and substantially increased my Spanish capabilities, making me more marketable later on.

I now work for one of the diocesan offices, and my pay is higher than it was before, and I get better insurance, retirement plan options and I work with great people. Perhaps I could find even better pay as a medical interpreter or something like that, but I am glad to be where I am.
 
Last edited:
I work for my parish in a full time paid position. It is less than what I made in my previous career but I don’t do it for the money. I have decent benefits, health insurance at a reasonable rate, retirement and 403b.

I had my career, retired from it and now I can work for less money. Now it is about a passion, to serve the Lord through my work and help young people have a better understanding of their Catholic faith.

We have 4 paid positions in addition to the priest. We also have hundreds of volunteers in various ministries through the parish.
 
I do, as a Sacristan & RCIA/CCD instructor. I find it more spiritually rewarding than my secular employment.
 
In your opinion, what is a fair and living wage? Let’s talk turkey here - give us some numbers.

If your idea of a “fair and living wage” is $60,000 a year for a regular 40 hr a week work schedule… or is it $25k a year?
 
Spyridon said:
In your opinion, what is a fair and living wage? Let’s talk turkey here - give us some numbers.

If your idea of a “fair and living wage” is $60,000 a year for a regular 40 hr a week work schedule… or is it $25k a year?
Click to expand...
:roll_eyes:

Living wage depends highy on where you live. If you want living wage for your area, then there are more than enough stats on glassdoor, linked in, citydata.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top