Wouldn't it be so much better if everyone was able to know the true religion?

[melbourne_guy]

A gift from Who??.

nature and evolution.

When we want to show our appreciation to our Creator, what is the absolutely best way in which to do it?

First you have to establish that there is a creator, now im not saying there isnt but you cant provide evidence that there is.

Do we worship our Creator in a way which pleases us… or… do we do it in a way which actually pleases the Creator?

Your right we would do it in a way we could please our creator, im not debating that.

This is where religion comes into the picture for without it and in particular, the teachings of the Prophets (pbut) throughout human history, the creations would not have a clue as to the correct and proper way to worship and show gratitude to their Creator.

Now this is speculation. Theres no evidence mohamad talked to god. How many gods were the arabs of that time worshipping befor he got there? over 300. Why do ou you trust this man so much? how do you know he was actually talking to the supernatural or simply just making it up, or had a serious mental illness?
Did muhhamad write the quaran? how can u trust men from over a thousand years ago, men who were very gullible.
Would you trust me if i told you i talked to allah, of course you wouldnt.

 

[hamba2han]

nature and evolution.

First you have to establish that there is a creator, now im not saying there isnt but you cant provide evidence that there is.

Your right we would do it in a way we could please our creator, im not debating that.

If you wish to know what the Creator and Sustainer has done for you lately, I would suggest that you take a look at what is on your plate the next time when you sit down for a meal.

Who is it that gave life to the crops that your bread or rice came from?

Who is it that gave life to the animal that your meat came from?

Who is it that gave life to all the plants that bear the vegetables and fruits of the world?

Who is it that gives life to all of the vegetation in the world which provides the oxygen that we breathe?

Hint – It sure isn’t ‘Mother Nature’ for “she” cannot even survive without the rays of the Sun.

Who is it that created the Sun?

If you gather a team of the world’s best doctors and surgeons in the emergency ward, can they give life back to a fresh corpse?

If every biological scientist in the world were to come together, can they create and give life to just one mosquito or even a single-cell bacteria?

The reason why the creations need to worship and show gratitude to their Creator and Sustainer is to benefit their own selves, NOT for His benefit because He has absolutely no need for their worship.

Now this is speculation. Theres no evidence mohamad talked to god. How many gods were the arabs of that time worshipping befor he got there? over 300. Why do ou you trust this man so much? how do you know he was actually talking to the supernatural or simply just making it up, or had a serious mental illness?
Did muhhamad write the quaran? how can u trust men from over a thousand years ago, men who were very gullible.
Would you trust me if i told you i talked to allah, of course you wouldnt.

Why do I believe and trust the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), you ask?

Primarilly because of the proof of his prophet-hood that he brought to humankind.

 

[Ignatius]

Jesus prayed that all Christians may be one (John 17:21). Why didn’t His prayer come true?

Is it the end of the world already? If not, then you can’t say that his prayer has not been answered because it’s not over yet.

 

[cheese_sdc]

All religions contain Truth and error to varying degrees.

 

[AgnosTheist]

There is a simple answer to this: free-will. We can choose whatever information we want to accept. We can look at things in whatever manner we see fit.

facts dont contradict free will. like everyone knows the fact that downloading movies is against the law. and yet people has different approaches in exercising their free will regarding this issue.

i cant see why it cant be the same about religion.

 

[planten]

nature and evolution.

First you have to establish that there is a creator, now im not saying there isnt but you cant provide evidence that there is.

Similarly you have to prove and provide evidence that there is no Creator. Do you believe that you have a creator? Please tell who created you? Then I will get on with you soon.

Now this is speculation. Theres no evidence mohamad talked to god. How many gods were the arabs of that time worshipping befor he got there? over 300. Why do ou you trust this man so much? how do you know he was actually talking to the supernatural or simply just making it up, or had a serious mental illness?

You are supposing something. It is quite possible that Muhammad talked to his God quite a lot. He used to pray a lot. So it is certain that he was talking to his God. Your problem is whether his God also talked to him or not. Well all religions agree on these points that there is a Creator God of the universe and He talks to his creatures (Servants).

Did muhhamad write the quaran? how can u trust men from over a thousand years ago, men who were very gullible.
Would you trust me if i told you i talked to allah, of course you wouldnt.

The history of world extends to more than 4000 years. So the events of 1400 years are well recorded and need to be believed.

If you said that God talked to you then I will try to judge you first if you are a good truthful man. If you are a good truthful man then i will believe you (even if you were making a false claim). I will believe you and leave the matter to the God Almighty. God Almighty will deal with you as He wills.

But if you are an Atheist then how could you say that you had been talking to God or God was talking to you?

 

[Verisimilitude]

The book of Psalms contained prophecies about Christ. So, I think Christians called David a prophet too. Im sure you already knew that (about the Psalms) as a Christian, so what do mean by this?: “As far as I know David is not considered a Prophet by anyone other than Muslims…”.

An error on my part regarding David. Islam (Qur’an) lists about 25 individuals as prophets but acknowledge more that go unnamed, where the Jews list about 55 major and minor prophets. I will accept the Jews listing, which does include David but not others.
Islam:
Adam
Idris (Enoch)
Nuh (Noah)
**Hud
Saleh **
Ibrahim (Abraham)
**Isma’il (Ishmael) **
Ishaq (Isaac)
Lut (Lot)
Ya’qub (Jacob)
**Yousef (Joseph) **
**Shu’aib **
**Ayyub (Job) **
Musa (Moses)
Harun (Aaron)
Dhu’l-kifl (Ezekiel)
Dawud (David)
Sulaiman (Solomon)
Ilias (Elias)
Al-Yasa (Elisha)
Yunus (Jonah)
Zakariyya (Zechariah)
**Yahya (John) **
**'Isa (Jesus)
Muhammad **

The bolded names are not recognized as prophets by Jews or Christians.

Jews:
The following list of prophets is based on the Talmud and Rashi.
Abraham Gen 11:26 - 25:10
Isaac Gen 21:1 - 35:29
Jacob Gen 25:21 - 49:33
Moses Ex. 2:1 - Deut. 34:5
Aaron Ex. 4:14 - Num. 33:39
Joshua Ex. 17:9 - 14, 24:13, 32:17 - 18, 33:11; Num. 11:28 - 29, 13:4 - 14:38; 27:18 - 27:23, Deut. 1:38, 3:28, 31:3, 31:7 -Joshua 24:29
Pinchas Ex. 6:25; Num. 25:7-25:11; Num. 31:6; Josh. 22:13 - Josh. 24:33; Judges 20:28
Elkanah I Samuel 1:1 - 2:20
Eli I Samuel 1:9 - 4:18
Samuel I Samuel 1:1 - I Samuel 25:1
Gad I Sam 22:5; II Sam 24:11-19; I Chron 21:9-21:19, 29:29
Nathan II Sam 7:2 - 17; 12:1 - 25.
David I Sam 16:1 - I Kings 2:11
Solomon II Sam 12:24; 1 Kings 1:10 - 11:43
Iddo II Chron 9:29, 12:15, 13:22
Michaiah son of Imlah I Kings 22:8-28; II Chron 18:7-27
Obadiah I Kings 18; Obadiah
Ahiyah the Shilonite I Kings 11:29-30; 12:15; 14:2-18; 15:29
Jehu son of Hanani I Kings 16:1 - 7; II Chron 19:2; 20:34
Azariah son of Oded II Chron 15
Jahaziel the Levite II Chron 20:14
Eliezer son of Dodavahu II Chron 20:37
Hosea Hosea
Amos Amos
Micah the Morashtite Micah
Amoz (the father of Isaiah)
Elijah I Kings 17:1 - 21:29; II Kings 1:10-2:15, 9:36-37, 10:10, 10:17
Elisha I Kings 19:16-19; II Kings 2:1-13:21
Jonah ben Amittai Jonah
Isaiah Isaiah
Joel Joel
Nahum Nahum
Habakkuk Habakkuk
Zephaniah Zephaniah
Uriah Jeremiah 26:20-23
Jeremiah Jeremiah
Ezekiel Ezekiel
Shemaiah I Kings 12:22-24; II Chron 11:2-4, 12:5-15
Barukh Jeremiah 32, 36, 43, 45
Neriah (father of Barukh)
Seraiah Jeremiah 51:61-64
Mehseiah (father of Neriah)
Haggai Haggai
Zechariah Zechariah
Malachi Malachi
Mordecai Bilshan Esther
Oded (father of Azariah)
Hanani (father of Jehu)
Female Prophets
Sarah Gen 11:29 - 23:20
Miriam Ex. 15:20-21; Num. 12:1-12:15, 20:1
Deborah Judges 4:1 - 5:31
Hannah I Sam 1:1 - 2:21
Abigail I Sam 25:1 - 25:42
Huldah II Kings 22:14-20
Esther Esther

 

[Righteousone]

All religions contain Truth and error to varying degrees.

But not all religions survive for 2,000 years, as the Catholic church has in spite of it all.

 

[AgnosTheist]

If you said that God talked to you then I will try to judge you first if you are a good truthful man. If you are a good truthful man then i will believe you (even if you were making a false claim). I will believe you and leave the matter to the God Almighty. God Almighty will deal with you as He wills.

God will judge you too for carelessly believing the words of sincere but deluded man. You wasted the brains that he gave you.

 

[cheese_sdc]

But not all religions survive for 2,000 years, as the Catholic church has in spite of it all.

Buddhism and Hinduism are older. Taoism has survived 2000 years as well.

 

[swariffin]

**That is not the words of jesus. A great change has been made in the actual previous wording of the bbile. As I had read it, Jesus said to Pilate “You say I am”. He did not say " You say correctly that i am a king…".

These are the problems with the christians. They do not have any standard text of the bible. That is their self made bible being amended every day to suit their own wishes. In Mark 15 verses 2 onward, it is written “Thou sayest I am”. But the words are being changed everyday. That amendment to the words of God are bad. Do the words of God need to be amended and improved? How can any one trust the bible now?**

What’s wrong with that, we still have the originals in Greek. I also have a greek version of the bible, and a dictionary. If there is any doubt of the verse of the bible, we simple go back to the greek version. Universally all theologians will refer back to the Greek, if they encounter any doubt. We can even go back to the codices where the current bible came from. All of those theologians speak and read Greek and/or Hebrew. The question is about your Quran. No one can be sure what the original writing is all about since is was burned by Uthsman back in the 700’s AD according to history I read.

 

[swariffin]

Buddhism and Hinduism are older. Taoism has survived 2000 years as well.

Dear Cheese,

You are correct. Buddhism, Hinduism, and even Taoism has lasted far longer than Christianity.

 

[hamba2han]

The significance of the Qur’an with regard to the Bible and all other earlier scriptures is like this:

Why read last week’s newspaper when today’s edition has just been delivered to your door-step?

Why refer to an old obsolete book which has many of it’s pages either missing, torn or defaced to the point of being unreadable when the very latest complete and revised edition of the book by the very same author is now available at your neighbourhood bookstore?

Seekers of the Truth need to seriously ponder these questions when considering the age of the scriptures that they are examining.

 

[Valke2]

Personally, I believe that since the Divine Will is eternal and beyond our comprehension (but not apprehension), it is impossible for any religion or set of beliefs to contain the full truth.

Two children want to show their mother they love her. One draws a card with a heart on it and one makes up a poem. Has either child more correctly expressed their love?

 

[swariffin]

The significance of the Qur’an with regard to the Bible and all other earlier scriptures is like this:

Why read last week’s newspaper when today’s edition has just been delivered to your door-step?

Why refer to an old obsolete book which has many of it’s pages either missing, torn or defaced to the point of being unreadable when the very latest complete and revised edition of the book by the very same author is now available at your neighbourhood bookstore?

Seekers of the Truth need to seriously ponder these questions when considering the age of the scriptures that they are examining.

Too bad that the latest edition was not come from the original writer. The latest edition you have came from another editor different than the original writer. The problem is, the original writing was burnt so that there is no way to verify the accuracy of the writing of such editor.

Second, the latest edition are full of story derived from the one so called obsolete, but in so mixed up manner that some story in the latest edition does not make sense in term of chronology or else.

The “obsolete” edition stressed that to be worthy as God’s follower, one must love the enemy, but “corrected” by the latest edition as to “Kill your enemy and slay them…” At the same time, God said “Thou shall not kill”. What a contradictory thing it will be. If I may kill my enemy, for sure I need no God for me to worship, because there will be no difference between God beliver and non-believer.

Fourth, fifth, others… no need for me to post them because someone else has done so.

The older a person is, the wiser he/she should be.

 

[melbourne_guy]

Similarly you have to prove and provide evidence that there is no Creator. Do you believe that you have a creator? Please tell who created you? Then I will get on with you soon

Im not claiming i dont have a creator. I cant provide evidence so i say “i dont know”. You cant provide evidence so you should say “i dont know”. Thats what agnosticism is admitting you dont know something because of the lack of EVIDENCE, do you understand?

You are supposing something. It is quite possible that Muhammad talked to his God quite a lot. He used to pray a lot. So it is certain that he was talking to his God. Your problem is whether his God also talked to him or not. Well all religions agree on these points that there is a Creator God of the universe and He talks to his creatures (Servants).

Just because all religions believe there is a creator doesnt make it true. Remember the religions of the anceint greeks or the romans who had a god for every situation. We both agree these gods were created by HUMANS in their minds. Who knows why the men made these gods up maybe for greed, money, power, control whatever the reason they were made up. I take the stance that muhhamad was exaclty like the men who made up the pagan gods, he had other motives. You see even if you think somebody is a great person who only does good, its almost never the case. Good people have their evil side aswell, how do you know what went on in muhhamads personal life, do you think you can judge his character on a 1400 year old book?

The history of world extends to more than 4000 years. So the events of 1400 years are well recorded and need to be believed.

1400 years ago was an extremely primitive time. The people of that time didnt even know 1/10000000th of what we know about the universe today. Everything from evolution to why it rained was unknown to that primitive society.

If you said that God talked to you then I will try to judge you first if you are a good truthful man. If you are a good truthful man then i will believe you (even if you were making a false claim). I will believe you and leave the matter to the God Almighty. God Almighty will deal with you as He wills.

Wow i wasnt expecting you to say that. If i said i talked to god you would believe me? If i made myself out to be a good truthful and kindloving person you would believe that i could talk to god. Your missing the point completely, the reason you believe in allah is because of this thought process you have. You believe muhhamad because you think he was a good truthful person, you dont even know him!

But if you are an Atheist then how could you say that you had been talking to God or God was talking to you?

Well the thing is, if i told you i was talking to god i wouldnt make myself out to be an atheist. If i told you i could talk to god i would make myself out to be a good truthful person, therefor you’d believe me.

 

[planten]

Please tell who created you? Then I will get on with you soon

Please reply to what I had asked. Thanks. I understand your problem.

 

[Yeshualuver]

If there was no doubt as to which belief system was correct, then we would be able to concentrate more on serving God the right way and learning more together.

For instance, look at this forum. There is debate after debate here, and we are getting nowhere. Catholics remain Catholic, Non-Catholics remain Non-Catholic.

Imagine if we could just agree on what is truth. There would be no condemning of heretics, no crusading, less wars and perhaps peace in the Middle East.

Why does God not allow everyone to know the truth more clearly? Even Christians can’t agree on fundamental truths.

How can we progress when there is division? How can proclaim what is true in their eyes, when we are not sure of the truth? A faithful Christian will say that without doubt his religion is right. A faithful Muslim will say that without doubt his religion is right. A faithful Jew will say that without doubt his religion is right…You get my point.

Jesus prayed that all Christians may be one (John 17:21). Why didn’t His prayer come true?

Adam and Eve walked with God in the garden in the cool of the day and STILL they blew it! Those who lived in a perfect environment, with a perfect government (so to speak) with no “hang ups” or baggage from less than stellar childhoods, corrupt clergy, etc. to blame anything on and they didn’t get it right.

Free will is necessary for true love. But free will not only allows us to freely accept God and His grace through Yeshua but also to freely reject Him and His truth. That can also be to distort the truth too.

Once the canon of Scripture was closed…**no one **is immune to being “off” theologically. That’s why Paul admonished Timothy

1Ti 4:16 Watch your **life and doctrine **closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

 

[melbourne_guy]

Please reply to what I had asked. Thanks. I understand your problem]

Thanks for the lame response. My parents created me. Who created humans, we evolved from an ape like common ancestor.
Who created the common ancestor, it evolved from a reptile. Who created the reptile, it evolved from a fish. Who created the fish, it evolved from a single cell organism. Who created the single cell organism, it was possibly produced by an electric chrage in proteins, caused by lightning.I can tell you everything all the way back to the bigbang bang but i cant tell you what caused that, becuase “i dont know”. You dont know either because its a mystery that has no evidence. Did a god cause it, maybe, theres always a possibilty. There you go, but i think i gave you more then you deserved, because if i asked you who created god im sure you would have nothing.

P.S you still didnt address my last post properly.

 

[planten]

I’m not claiming i dont have a creator. I cant provide evidence so i say “i dont know”. You cant provide evidence so you should say “i dont know”. Thats what agnosticism is admitting you dont know something because of the lack of EVIDENCE, do you understand?

I have written another post about it, asking you about who cretaed you? Please reply.

Just because all religions believe there is a creator doesnt make it true. Remember the religions of the anceint greeks or the romans who had a god for every situation. We both agree these gods were created by HUMANS in their minds.

Who created that mind? Please tell?

1400 years ago was an extremely primitive time. The people of that time didnt even know 1/10000000th of what we know about the universe today. Everything from evolution to why it rained was unknown to that primitive society

.
** It is true that we know more about things today than before. But the good work of all people has to be admitted. The work of Science is useful and Islam stesses the need to gain knowledge even if one had to go to China. You cannot deny the good things of the past which are a good part of us all.

If there is no past then there is no present too. Please try to understand with goodwill.**

Wow i wasnt expecting you to say that. If i said i talked to god you would believe me? If i made myself out to be a good truthful and kindloving person you would believe that i could talk to god. Your missing the point completely, the reason you believe in allah is because of this thought process you have. You believe muhhamad because you think he was a good truthful person, you dont even know him!

I still standby what I said before. I will not do anything or saything against you.

Well the thing is, if i told you i was talking to god i wouldnt make myself out to be an atheist. If i told you i could talk to god i would make myself out to be a good truthful person, therefor you’d believe me.

**There will be no harm believing what you tried to say. I am not the only one in the world. There will be other people too who will listen to what you say. They will also judge you. And so the process of judgement will continue. Soon we will all come to know about the crux of the matter.

If I believe in what you say, then it will not harm me in any way. With my love and respect for you, the problems will be solved.**