wounded faith

[William777]

This past Tuesday’s election disaster has brought up an issue of who to trust in the church.

I go to church because it is Sacred Ground. One would think one knows where one stands on Sacred Ground. It is because we share a common faith that we can trust one another. This faith is ratified in the blood of Christ, so, if we follow it, then we are assured of the blessings to follow. We will have kept faith with God and one another, and then everything works out according to the will of God.

But, it is clearly evident to me now that there are Catholics who simply do not care what the church thinks, and they will go about playing God regardless of what others think - whether those others be one’s fellow man or God himself. It’s an extremely presumptous attitude if one thinks they can negotiate with sacred principles, and, if one refuses to capitulate, it is completely defiant of sacred principles.

But capitulation is impossible now that the elections are over. Half our brethren chose Barabbas over Christ, so now we have no choice but to carry the cross, suffer persecution and be crucified all over again. Christ was supposed to have done this for us once and for all, but when people sin they deliberately ignore the sufferings of Christ, and they abuse the Sacred Principles the just suffer to obey.

So now we must carry the cross. Of course, the cross is not a piece of wood nowadays, it may be one of the tools an abortionist uses to kill a baby. Or it may be something else…

But that’s what I guess I dont understand…

How we can call ourselves Christian when half the people in church aren’t even really “there”? This whole election has deeply wounded my faith in others. I dont feel I can trust the person sitting next to me in church anymore. Is this what it means to suffer the cross - that I should be readily handing the person sitting next to me in church the tools of abortion? Or should I be resisting this? Resisting it seems more appropriate, of course. But then what? They don’t care. They wont listen. They chose Barabbas over Christ. What am I to do?

Divided.

 

[HillbillyHermit]

First, I’m sorry your faith is wounded. But if you put too much stock in humans it’s fairly certain that it will continue to happen.

But, it is clearly evident to me now that there are Catholics who simply do not care what the church thinks…

Sure, there probably are. Check out Matthew 13:24-30.

Or they don’t fully understand what the Church teaches and why. We all have a tendency to be thick skulled. Even the Apostles, who were face to face with Christ, didn’t catch on to all of it right away.

How we can call ourselves Christian when half the people in church aren’t even really “there”?

That reminds me of something Mother Angelica said on a show of hers I watched recently. She was talking about how some people complain about all the hypocrites in church and she said basically, “There’s always room for one more.”

 

[William777]

I saw that episode with Mother Angelica, and, yes, I am aware of the hypocrisy in church.

But the part about not understanding doesn’t work at all. The church has been more than clear on this topic for years, and - over the past couple of months - they have been trying to convince people of the inherent evils in casting a vote for Obama’s policies. What’s not to understand?

But it’s too late to change any of that… It’s like an on/off switch - people could vote one way or another, and not enough came forward in faith to vote the right way… so it’s lights out…

Now we suffer the cross. All of us. The question is how to do it without jeopardizing our faith, especially when half the church cant be trusted. And, if they were weak when the wood was green, they be wailing something awful when it’s dry.

As per the comments about the other people in church, I’m eremtic too in many ways, and I voted with a clear conscience with respect to my faith in the church. But half of the ten commandments pertain to human dealings, so, while I can keep faith with God, it’s going to be a struggle anymore to identify who I can and cannot trust.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

But capitulation is impossible now that the elections are over. Half our brethren chose Barabbas over Christ, so now we have no choice but to carry the cross, suffer persecution and be crucified all over again. Christ was supposed to have done this for us once and for all, but when people sin they deliberately ignore the sufferings of Christ, and they abuse the Sacred Principles the just suffer to obey.

You’re comparing Romney to Christ? :ehh:

Sacred principles of whom to vote for in the election?

How we can call ourselves Christian when half the people in church aren’t even really “there”? This whole election has deeply wounded my faith in others. I dont feel I can trust the person sitting next to me in church anymore. Is this what it means to suffer the cross - that I should be readily handing the person sitting next to me in church the tools of abortion? Or should I be resisting this? Resisting it seems more appropriate, of course. But then what? They don’t care. They wont listen. They chose Barabbas over Christ. What am I to do?

Divided.

Get over the election, and get back to your prayer life.

Seek first the kingdom of God and all these other things will be given to you. :bible1:

Your salvation is in God; if your faith depends on the election results than you have made the government your idol. Your problem is that you’re trying to find “faith” in other people’s behavior, “faith” being defined as people who vote the right way. So others’ behavior becomes an idol. Contrary to popular thinking, Jesus never told anyone to get involved in the affairs of government, but rather to avoid them and work our problems out brother to brother.

Alan

 

[HillbillyHermit]

I saw that episode with Mother Angelica, and, yes, I am aware of the hypocrisy in church.

Then take “hypocrisy” and replace it with something else… human error/sin/weakness/whatever. (That’s what I was trying to get at.)
Check out Matthew 13:24-30 again.
Pray for those who are going against the truth, whether intentional or not.

But the part about not understanding doesn’t work at all. The church has been more than clear on this topic for years, and - over the past couple of months - they have been trying to convince people of the inherent evils in casting a vote for Obama’s policies. What’s not to understand?

It does work. People can be stubborn, which can make understanding a challenge. I know how it is to be that way. Patience. We’re not all at the same level.

Now we suffer the cross. All of us. The question is how to do it without jeopardizing our faith, especially when half the church cant be trusted. And, if they were weak when the wood was green, they be wailing something awful when it’s dry.

Suffering the cross(es) is inevitable for every follower of Christ. Look to Jesus on His cross. Even in the midst of such horrible suffering He still showed love, mercy, and generosity. Don’t give up! Put it in the Father’s hands.
As far as not being able to trust half the Church: I think you just got hit with a hard dose of reality. We’re all human, and all have our limitations, from the Pope down to granny in the pew. Even Mary didn’t understand Jesus after she anxiously searched 3 days for him. (Luke 2:41-52) Yet she’s an awesome example of hanging in there with faith and trust in God when things aren’t looking the best. Look at what St. Elizabeth said to her, “Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled!” (Luke 1:45 NAB)

I’m going to share a Blessed JP2 quote that Father Stan Fortuna shared on his Facebook page:
“To struggle against defeatism is to ‘fight the good fight of the faith’.”

Hang in there!

 

[Highwayhound]

This past Tuesday’s election disaster has brought up an issue of who to trust in the church.

I go to church because it is Sacred Ground. One would think one knows where one stands on Sacred Ground. It is because we share a common faith that we can trust one another. This faith is ratified in the blood of Christ, so, if we follow it, then we are assured of the blessings to follow. We will have kept faith with God and one another, and then everything works out according to the will of God.

But, it is clearly evident to me now that there are Catholics who simply do not care what the church thinks, and they will go about playing God regardless of what others think - whether those others be one’s fellow man or God himself. It’s an extremely presumptous attitude if one thinks they can negotiate with sacred principles, and, if one refuses to capitulate, it is completely defiant of sacred principles.

But capitulation is impossible now that the elections are over. Half our brethren chose Barabbas over Christ, so now we have no choice but to carry the cross, suffer persecution and be crucified all over again. Christ was supposed to have done this for us once and for all, but when people sin they deliberately ignore the sufferings of Christ, and they abuse the Sacred Principles the just suffer to obey.

So now we must carry the cross. Of course, the cross is not a piece of wood nowadays, it may be one of the tools an abortionist uses to kill a baby. Or it may be something else…

But that’s what I guess I dont understand…

How we can call ourselves Christian when half the people in church aren’t even really “there”? This whole election has deeply wounded my faith in others. I dont feel I can trust the person sitting next to me in church anymore. Is this what it means to suffer the cross - that I should be readily handing the person sitting next to me in church the tools of abortion? Or should I be resisting this? Resisting it seems more appropriate, of course. But then what? They don’t care. They wont listen. They chose Barabbas over Christ. What am I to do?

Divided.

When coaching people a coach will look at a situation and ask, “Is this a legit gripe or is it bunch of bellyaching?” Not enough is known to give an answer, but you can answer for yourself that question. If it is a one time vent okay or if it a repetative rant then “bellyaching”.

If fifty of us were lost in a dark cave not all fifty of us would need a lantern. As long as a couple of us have a lantern then we could all get out of the cave. Are you going to be a person with that light?

If you want an example to follow research St. Vincent de Paul. He dealt with a lot worse.

God bless

 

[InLight247]

Your feeling is understandable but please do not allow your faith be wounded by the unfaithful. According to the statistics, most regular church going Catholics voted for Romney.pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/How-the-Faithful-Voted-2012-Preliminary-Exit-Poll-Analysis.aspx#rr

Yes, there are still large number church going Catholics voted against all the bishops’ teaching and supported the candidate promotes intrinsic evils. But that’s the way it is. We cannot control others’ conscience.

Regardless so many bishops publicly taught the faithful not to vote for intrinsic evil, they did it anyway. The spirit of obedience has been long lost in the Catholics. That is where the word “liberal” comes from. Bishops are the shepherd in the Church and have the authority of teaching; however, modern Catholics pick and choose. They ignore the Church’s teaching and go for their own merry way. The liberal Catholics believe they know better than the bishops. But you don’t have to be pulled down by other people’s sin. What important is to stand firm with your own faith and continue to be the salt and light for the world. Do not be influenced by the evil but to overcome evil with good. Pray for the one sits next to you in the pew. You don’t have to trust that person, but you can trust God and pray for that person’s conversion. It is not easy, but nothing decent is easy. God bless!

 

[Ruthie_again]

Hang in there. :grouphug:

Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
1 Cor 13:8-13 (RSV)

The imperfect will pass away. We don’t know why these other Catholics went so wrong, but eventually we will know. In the meantime, we can rely on faith, hope, and love. So hang in there, because:

I say to God, my rock: “Why hast thou forgotten me? Why go I mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?”
As with a deadly wound in my body, my adversaries taunt me, while they say to me continually, “Where is your God?”
Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you disquieted within me? Hope in God; for I shall again praise him, my help and my God.
Psalms 42:9-11 (RSV)

and

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil; for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
Psalms 23:4 (RSV)

Your faith will come back from this blow. Go ahead and grieve your fallen idol (that all Catholics will follow the Magisterium). but remember that it was not the Church that let you down, but the sinners within her. We won’t be free of them til we get to Heaven, so focus on that journey!

And thank you for the post. I needed consolation for this bad news, too, and answering you has helped me find it!

 

[mercytruth]

This past Tuesday’s election disaster has brought up an issue of who to trust in the church.

I go to church because it is Sacred Ground. One would think one knows where one stands on Sacred Ground. It is because we share a common faith that we can trust one another. This faith is ratified in the blood of Christ, so, if we follow it, then we are assured of the blessings to follow. We will have kept faith with God and one another, and then everything works out according to the will of God.

But, it is clearly evident to me now that there are Catholics who simply do not care what the church thinks, and they will go about playing God regardless of what others think - whether those others be one’s fellow man or God himself. It’s an extremely presumptous attitude if one thinks they can negotiate with sacred principles, and, if one refuses to capitulate, it is completely defiant of sacred principles.

But capitulation is impossible now that the elections are over. Half our brethren chose Barabbas over Christ, so now we have no choice but to carry the cross, suffer persecution and be crucified all over again. Christ was supposed to have done this for us once and for all, but when people sin they deliberately ignore the sufferings of Christ, and they abuse the Sacred Principles the just suffer to obey.

So now we must carry the cross. Of course, the cross is not a piece of wood nowadays, it may be one of the tools an abortionist uses to kill a baby. Or it may be something else…

But that’s what I guess I dont understand…

How we can call ourselves Christian when half the people in church aren’t even really “there”? This whole election has deeply wounded my faith in others. I dont feel I can trust the person sitting next to me in church anymore. Is this what it means to suffer the cross - that I should be readily handing the person sitting next to me in church the tools of abortion? Or should I be resisting this? Resisting it seems more appropriate, of course. But then what? They don’t care. They wont listen. They chose Barabbas over Christ. What am I to do?

Divided.

God looks at our hearts. We can vote a certain way, and our hearts can be evil minded and in the wrong place in other ways. We need to humble ourselves before God, and pray for one another and for our enemies. I personally do not want to attend Mass with suspicious, angry people. Now if everyone who voted correctly can say that they are all innocent of the Way of Death, then maybe you have something to be concerned about.

**Chap. V.

1.  But the way of death is this. First of all it is evil and full of curse; murders, adulteries, lusts, fornications, thefts, idolatries, witchcrafts, sorceries, robberies, false-witnessings, hypocrisies, double-heartedness, deceit, pride, wickedness, self-will, covetousness, filthy-talking, jealousy, presumption, haughtiness, boastfulness. 

2.  Persecutors of the good, hating truth, loving a lie, not knowing the reward of righteousness, not cleaving to that which is good nor to righteous judgment, watchful not for that which is good but for that which is evil; far from whom is meekness and endurance, loving vanity, seeking after reward, not pitying the poor, not toiling with him who is vexed with toil, not knowing Him that made them, murderers of children, destroyers of the handiwork of God, turning away from the needy, vexing the afflicted, advocates of the rich, lawless judges of the poor, wholly sinful. 

May ye, children, be delivered from all these. **

catholicplanet.com/ebooks/didache.htm

God’s peace be with you

micah

 

[Catholic1954]

This past Tuesday’s election disaster has brought up an issue of who to trust in the church.

I go to church because it is Sacred Ground. One would think one knows where one stands on Sacred Ground. It is because we share a common faith that we can trust one another. This faith is ratified in the blood of Christ, so, if we follow it, then we are assured of the blessings to follow. We will have kept faith with God and one another, and then everything works out according to the will of God.

But, it is clearly evident to me now that there are Catholics who simply do not care what the church thinks, and they will go about playing God regardless of what others think - whether those others be one’s fellow man or God himself. It’s an extremely presumptous attitude if one thinks they can negotiate with sacred principles, and, if one refuses to capitulate, it is completely defiant of sacred principles.

But capitulation is impossible now that the elections are over. Half our brethren chose Barabbas over Christ, so now we have no choice but to carry the cross, suffer persecution and be crucified all over again. Christ was supposed to have done this for us once and for all, but when people sin they deliberately ignore the sufferings of Christ, and they abuse the Sacred Principles the just suffer to obey.

So now we must carry the cross. Of course, the cross is not a piece of wood nowadays, it may be one of the tools an abortionist uses to kill a baby. Or it may be something else…

But that’s what I guess I dont understand…

How we can call ourselves Christian when half the people in church aren’t even really “there”? This whole election has deeply wounded my faith in others. I dont feel I can trust the person sitting next to me in church anymore. Is this what it means to suffer the cross - that I should be readily handing the person sitting next to me in church the tools of abortion? Or should I be resisting this? Resisting it seems more appropriate, of course. But then what? They don’t care. They wont listen. They chose Barabbas over Christ. What am I to do?

Divided.

Pray, pray, pray. Pray to The Immaculate Conception, patroness of the United States of America, for the deep, lasting conversion of our country. For the first time ever, the number of citizens who do not belong to or attend any religion or church, outnumber the ones who do. That is the kind of secularism that gets the current administration elected and re-elected.

 

[massknight]

I hear where you are coming from but don’t feel wounded The vast majority of regular mass going Catholics did the right thing any where from 60 -70 % Of the one who didn’t are elderly Democrats who have been voting Democrat for 50 - 60 years they are not going to change I have tried with many of them