WOW!!

[SilentKnight]

What Im trying to get at is that my version is different, I was taught the kingdom of GOD is within us all. other translations speak differently what if you truely hold the key to the key to the kingdom inside you? which translation is right?

It doesn’t really matter because the message behind the verse, however one wants to translate the words, is the same regardless.

Contarini said it very well.

SK

 

[storm807]

If God speaks to you directly without mediation, why are you reading Scripture in the first place? If God speaks to you through Scripture, why not learn Greek or consult Greek scholars? Or do you think that the KJV is itself an inspired translation? If so, why?

Edwin

Now where did I say that GOD speaks to me directly??
What Im sayingis that with the different translations which one is right or is it up to the individual what they want to believe.
“If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”

 

[storm807]

If God speaks to you directly without mediation, why are you reading Scripture in the first place? If God speaks to you through Scripture, why not learn Greek or consult Greek scholars? Or do you think that the KJV is itself an inspired translation? If so, why?

Edwin

“If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”

now thats what I was taught but I see we are not all taught the same. It amzes me that there is only one word and man has found ways to change it to many different words. What I am saying that we will not the truth until we get home with Jesus and God. Its like ho wdo we explain all the people in heaven from all different faiths? Our religions do not go home with us,its a worldly thing.when the body drops here on earth religion dies with it.

 

[storm807]

Thank you everyone for chatting!
Blessings to all!!

I got to get dinner ready now, I was off from work today and my wife and kids are coming home from school and the last thing I want is a hungry wife! LOL!!!

Blessings!

 

[Della]

Now where did I say that GOD speaks to me directly??
What Im sayingis that with the different translations which one is right or is it up to the individual what they want to believe.
“If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”

Wisdom isn’t the very same thing as “what this Bible verse means”. You are reading that into the text because that’s what you want it to say.

That’s a very easy mistake to fall into. Personal interpretation has led to many a disaster, spiritually and in every other way, which is why we are specifically instructed not to rely upon personal interpretation:

2Pet.1:20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation…

Jesus established his Church to decide matters of faith and morals (it’s all right there in Matthew). He didn’t leave us to decide, each man for himself, what he wants us to know and to believe. He wasn’t that thoughtless nor that unwise.

 

[SilentKnight]

Now where did I say that GOD speaks to me directly??

You were implying that that was the most reliable source of truth. (Which, of course, isn’t an incorrect implication.) It isn’t that God is not the most reliable source of truth. Obviously He is. However, He has also designed the world such that truth is to be transmitted in “conditional” ways through other sources as well. Further, due to our fallen nature, just because God speaks clearly doesn’t mean we hear Him clearly all the time. Our ability to perceive correctly is clouded by many different things.

Thus, if we want to know religious truth as certainly as is possible, we must adhere to the clear teaching of those whom God has commissioned to present it to us - the magisterium of the Catholic Church.

 

[storm807]

Wisdom isn’t the very same thing as “what this Bible verse means”. You are reading that into the text because that’s what you want it to say.

That’s a very easy mistake to fall into. Personal interpretation has led to many a disaster, spiritually and in every other way, which is why we are specifically instructed not to rely upon personal interpretation:

2Pet.1:20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation…

Jesus established his Church to decide matters of faith and morals (it’s all right there in Matthew). He didn’t leave us to decide, each man for himself, what he wants us to know and to believe. He wasn’t that thoughtless nor that unwise.

Thanks Della! Take care!

 

[storm807]

You were implying that that was the most reliable source of truth. (Which, of course, isn’t an incorrect implication.) It isn’t that God is not the most reliable source of truth. Obviously He is. However, He has also designed the world such that truth is to be transmitted in “conditional” ways through other sources as well. Further, due to our fallen nature, just because God speaks clearly doesn’t mean we hear Him clearly all the time. Our ability to perceive correctly is clouded by many different things.

Thus, if we want to know religious truth as certainly as is possible, we must adhere to the clear teaching of those whom God has commissioned to present it to us - the magisterium of the Catholic Church.

Sorry with all due respect that I give all faiths, not catholic so "the magisterium of the Catholic Church"is not a helping point for me.

Thank you!

 

[SilentKnight]

Sorry with all due respect that I give all faiths, not catholic so "the magisterium of the Catholic Church"is not a helping point for me.

Ok, so, your original post: “Why people are not taught to look within? Is it because they may actually find the truth and the church (all churches)can not handle it?” was not a question, but a contention against the Catholic faith basically.

SK

 

[storm807]

Ok, so, your original post: “Why people are not taught to look within? Is it because they may actually find the truth and the church (all churches)can not handle it?” was not a question, but a contention against the Catholic faith basically.

SK

“but a contention against the Catholic faith basically.”

Not at all! I know that this is a forum I can come to and get great feedback from different angles. The question is for christians not their religion. We all believe in the father,son and holy spirit and that what matters to me. Religions are just a title of a group to me. Unless Jesus says that I must be a member of a specific religion to get into heaven then thats different but he says that the only way to the father is by me. Sorry that you took it as an attack on the catholic faith. Religions are earthly to me but respect others who need it.

 

[Della]

"Della:

Wisdom isn’t the very same thing as “what this Bible verse means”. You are reading that into the text because that’s what you want it to say.

That’s a very easy mistake to fall into. Personal interpretation has led to many a disaster, spiritually and in every other way, which is why we are specifically instructed not to rely upon personal interpretation:

2Pet.1:20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation…

Jesus established his Church to decide matters of faith and morals (it’s all right there in Matthew). He didn’t leave us to decide, each man for himself, what he wants us to know and to believe. He wasn’t that thoughtless nor that unwise.

Thanks Della! Take care!

Is this supposed to be an answer to a plain Scripture text and an explanation of the Church’s position on an important question?

You can’t just pick up a Bible, believe whatever you want based on your faulty reading, and imagine God won’t care.

The Bible makes it very clear that Jesus established his Church, that he built it on Peter and the Apostles, and that he gave the Apostles his authority to preach, teach, baptize, and decide matters of faith and morals.

Now, if you can show us in Scripture that this isn’t the case then tell us. Yes, this is a challenge in response to your original posting that the Church is irrelevant.

 

[storm807]

Ok, so, your original post: “Why people are not taught to look within? Is it because they may actually find the truth and the church (all churches)can not handle it?” was not a question, but a contention against the Catholic faith basically.

SK

Its like when I came across a women whom was wearing the same cross around her neck as I was and I told her she had great taste! She commented,'But mine was blessed by the Pope."
I wanted to say,“I could care less about the Pope” but I respect others faith unless they throw it in my face.
My question was not to offend your faith but to ask Christians a question.

 

[storm807]

Is this supposed to be an answer to a plain Scripture text and an explanation of the Church’s position on an important question?

You can’t just pick up a Bible, believe whatever you want based on your faulty reading, and imagine God won’t care.

The Bible makes it very clear that Jesus established his Church, that he built it on Peter and the Apostles, and that he gave the Apostles his authority to preach, teach, baptize, and decide matters of faith and morals.

Now, if you can show us in Scripture that this isn’t the case then tell us. Yes, this is a challenge in response to your original posting that the Church is irrelevant.

LOL! I didn’t just pick up a bible and believe whatever I want but ask God to help me understand his word.
so many translations out there why not ask him, hes the original author right?
Its amazing that we believe what others tell us but when we try to get answers for ourselves its murder.
isnt a great thing that God lets us find our way back home?

 

[storm807]

Is this supposed to be an answer to a plain Scripture text and an explanation of the Church’s position on an important question?

You can’t just pick up a Bible, believe whatever you want based on your faulty reading, and imagine God won’t care.

The Bible makes it very clear that Jesus established his Church, that he built it on Peter and the Apostles, and that he gave the Apostles his authority to preach, teach, baptize, and decide matters of faith and morals.

Now, if you can show us in Scripture that this isn’t the case then tell us. Yes, this is a challenge in response to your original posting that the Church is irrelevant.

Oh yeah, why my readings have to be Faulty?? LOL!!!

 

[Contarini]

Now where did I say that GOD speaks to me directly??

You are trying to avoid a serious study of the passage by saying that you will ask God. If trying to understand what the original Greek meant is not a way of hearing from God, it’s reasonable to ask how in fact you do expect to hear from God. I believe that I hear from God in many ways. One of them is through study.

What Im sayingis that with the different translations which one is right or is it up to the individual what they want to believe.

You should be careful building your theology on one verse whose meaning is disputed. That seems clear for starters. If you are just picking the translation that fits your assumptions, then we need to ask where those assumptions come from.

“If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”

Amen! And one characteristic of wisdom is the willingness to learn from others.

Edwin

 

[storm807]

You are trying to avoid a serious study of the passage by saying that you will ask God. If trying to understand what the original Greek meant is not a way of hearing from God, it’s reasonable to ask how in fact you do expect to hear from God. I believe that I hear from God in many ways. One of them is through study.

You should be careful building your theology on one verse whose meaning is disputed. That seems clear for starters. If you are just picking the translation that fits your assumptions, then we need to ask where those assumptions come from.

Amen! And one characteristic of wisdom is the willingness to learn from others.

Edwin/QUOTE
why is asking God so hard to believe??? he shows people through many different ways. Im serious when I say that. v

 

[Contarini]

It amzes me that there is only one word and man has found ways to change it to many different words.

Who are you suggesting has changed this particular passage?

What I am saying that we will not the truth until we get home with Jesus and God.

Not the full truth. But we can do our best.

Its like ho wdo we explain all the people in heaven from all different faiths? Our religions do not go home with us,its a worldly thing.when the body drops here on earth religion dies with it.

In a sense, sure. There will be no temple in the New Jerusalem. But as you note, Jesus will be there. Jesus is only a part of some religions, and is only the God-Man in orthodox Christianity. If Jesus is fully God and fully human, and *He *will be in the New Jerusalem, then obviously the most important part of the Christian religion will be there. So your statement would appear to be wrong. Religion per se will not be there. But either a religion tells the truth about the final destiny of the universe or it doesn’t. If it does, then of course in one sense it will “be there,” not as a set of symbols and doctrines to be taken on faith, but as the reality to which those symbols and doctrines pointed.

It is of course possible that all religions are wrong, or that some or all of them are partly right and partly wrong.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

why is asking God so hard to believe??? he shows people through many different ways. Im serious when I say that. v

I don’t know why you think that I would disagree with this.

You began this conversation. You quoted a passage whose meaning is disputed. For some reason when your interpretation is challenged you are retreating rather defensively to the idea that it really doesn’t matter and you will just go ask God. Well, maybe God is answering you by leading you to this forum full of argumentative, obnoxious people who are throwing Greek words at you. That’s all I want you to consider!

Edwin

P.S. I should have said “full of people at least one of whom–Contarini–is argumentative and obnoxious!” I should not speak for others.

 

[Della]

Oh yeah, why my readings have to be Faulty?? LOL!!!

Because Jesus never granted you or me personally the charism of infallibility. That’s why. But he did grant it to his Church. Look it up for yourself if you can only believe what you read with your own eyes.

 

[storm807]

Thank you for all the replies! I appreciate all those who help me get a clearer answer to the question but I am sad that there are still some who can not accept other feelings and ideas of what they feel is true . This forum is no different than any other religious forum where their followers feel that their religion is the all mighty religion. Thats great but it leaves no room to accept others.
I came here to get different angles on this and I thank you all for your time and answers.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!