Wrath

[Uriah_Betrayed]

Note: Mods I urge this thread not to be closed, I need to speak with common Catholics about this problem. Websites and readings that don’t speak too me personally don’t seem to help.

I’ll be blunt, no flowers I am filled with wrath. It is a very bottled and subtle fury. I’m perfectly capable of talking to people, to enjoy the company of most people; I would say I’m socially awkward and I can’t retain someones attention more than 4 minutes for the most part. I mention this because perhaps this is the a reason for these feelings, I don’t know…

But the problem is when I’m away from people, free from the public eye all this anger toward people and humanity just erupts. It sometimes isn’t even a certain type of person that drives my anger, recently its become just people in general make me seeth with rage.

I can honestly say if humanity could be collectivized into one sole individual in my isolated moments I feel like I’d beat them down with my fists with pure hatred in my heart.

Out of guilt I try to come up with reasons why I feel this. The most likely one that I’ve come up is that I hate the morally empty people that live in this world nowadays and at the same time I hate the faithful and the holy for having something I’ve lost. That and I really don’t like myself…

I’ve also realized that it’s pointless to learn about God if I feel this way.

 

[fred_conty]

Unless I knew you better I really can’t venture to help you. I wish I could.

I believe it would help to find an older person you can trust and have confidence in and to ask them what they see in you. Someone you know would be best.

It may take you years to try and understand what you really need. But someone else may be able to help in a very short period of time because they will see you more objectively than you see yourself.

One time I was frightened of a situation, and a friend of mine counseled me that our fears are mostly greater than the reality itself. That short line helped me immensely.

It may not be as difficult as it seems to you right now. We tend to exagerate our problems, whereas someone else sees them as they really are.

I’m just going to mention one idea that may help. Try reading something on how to succeed in life, or something on building relationships. If we can change our feelings about ourselves it is surprising what that will accomplish for us.

Just a thought and a prayer for you.

 

[Samuel63]

I recommend healing prayer, confession, adoration, the rosary, and liberal use of holy water. There may be someone else involved.

 

[hizown]

Uriah, not a shrink or priest here, but how about finding something positive that you can passionately pour yourself into that somehow benefits others? I find that anger can be channeled/transformed into something positive, if you let it. (Not saying that will cure the root of your problem, whatever that root is, just saying it could cut down on the ferocity of the anger—because you probably already know that anger unchecked can fester till it breaks out in some really sinful form, like violence or verbal abuse, etc. which I’m sure you don’t want to have happen.)

 

[timotheos]

Note: Mods I urge this thread not to be closed, I need to speak with common Catholics about this problem. Websites and readings that don’t speak too me personally don’t seem to help.

I’ll be blunt, no flowers I am filled with wrath. It is a very bottled and subtle fury. I’m perfectly capable of talking to people, to enjoy the company of most people; I would say I’m socially awkward and I can’t retain someones attention more than 4 minutes for the most part. I mention this because perhaps this is the a reason for these feelings, I don’t know…

But the problem is when I’m away from people, free from the public eye all this anger toward people and humanity just erupts. It sometimes isn’t even a certain type of person that drives my anger, recently its become just people in general make me seeth with rage.

I can honestly say if humanity could be collectivized into one sole individual in my isolated moments I feel like I’d beat them down with my fists with pure hatred in my heart.

Out of guilt I try to come up with reasons why I feel this. The most likely one that I’ve come up is that I hate the morally empty people that live in this world nowadays and at the same time I hate the faithful and the holy for having something I’ve lost. That and I really don’t like myself…

I’ve also realized that it’s pointless to learn about God if I feel this way.

Uriah, I don’t have time to respond now, and I first need to think about your post in some depth anyway. But you don’t sound like you are off your rocker. Just don’t act on your feelings, please no …

 

[timotheos]

OK Uriah, may I ask a few questions?

First off, what is the significance of your name, Uriah_Betrayed? Any similarities in your life to the story of Uriah?

Second, the word that stands out in my mind after reading your post is* rejection*. Not simple isolation, but rejection. It would be worth contemplating this, because it could produce a general sense of anger toward people. Could this be a factor for you?

Third, why do you believe it is pointless to learn about God if you feel this way? Do you think you can only learn about God when you are feeling happy, or at least in harmony with the world? Do you not know that some of the emotions you describe in yourself could have been one of Jesus’ greatest temptations (ie. to also feel hatred for humanity) on his last painful day on earth?

Lastly, did you know that there are people out there who know precisely what you are describing, almost to a “T”? And that some of these people make a conscious and painful choice to turn away from feeling hostility toward their fellow man and toward the suffering Jesus, because accepting death in rejection is the only action that holds any lasting truth?

Sorry, I know it’s a lot to think about. But if your wrath is as deep as it seems, you will need to start sorting it out. Having a good and patient confessor is a real asset on this road. I will pray for you as you need to start on this journey, for the sake of God’s tremendous love for you — and he does, or he would never have given you the grace (yes, grace!) of this perspective.

Tim

 

[Uriah_Betrayed]

First off, what is the significance of your name, Uriah_Betrayed? Any similarities in your life to the story of Uriah?

I choose this name because the story of David and Bathsheba almost perfectly symbolizes my feelings that God only loves a winner. In that story David the so called blessed king who is mentioned as worthy of being the ancestor of Christ literally got away with murder and dishonoring Uriah in the harshest of manners.

To Uriah, God had no pity. Uriah the Hittite, a loyal soldier to David who probably stuck by him when he was still a bandit terrorizing Saul’s countryside. He gets betrayed by his comrades in arms, who choose to follow orders and their king over doing what’s right-leaving him to die in the midst of battle. He gets betrayed by David who lies to his face trying to cover up his sin. He gets betrayed by his wife who in the end gets to remain QUEEN OF ISRAEL and have the children that become the heirs of Israel that are most famous (Makes you almost think God WANTED David to commit adultery; why else would he give David heirs that were geniuses? If God wanted he could have made Solomon an idiot ruler as punishment to David, but no instead he figures one miscarriage is enough punishment for his Golden Boy.

Second, the word that stands out in my mind after reading your post is rejection. Not simple isolation, but rejection. It would be worth contemplating this, because it could produce a general sense of anger toward people. Could this be a factor for you?

I’d say that’s about right. I can’t maintain a conversation with anyone so basically all my life is people talking to me when there is no one else around and then immediately gravitating toward someone else once a new person enters the room. Of all the people I know in the university probably two don’t do this too me.

Then there are the two extremes, on one side is people who are so morally bankrupt that just being in their presence makes me burn up inside. And then there are more pious people, Catholics who actually attend mass and who have a connection with God. I mentioned before I get upset that they somehow see God as loving when all I can see is a Deity that barely cares about us. And of course there is anger out of envy of people (scratch that everyone) who is better than me at pretty much everything. I cannot compete, when I compete I lose no if-ands-or buts about it.

Third, why do you believe it is pointless to learn about God if you feel this way? Do you think you can only learn about God when you are feeling happy, or at least in harmony with the world? Do you not know that some of the emotions you describe in yourself could have been one of Jesus’ greatest temptations (ie. to also feel hatred for humanity) on his last painful day on earth?

When I’m upset my hatred goes to God for making me such a waste of flesh, for never caring about humanity abandoning us for 2000 years, and for never helping find faith or have any reason to believe he exists in the first place. When I’m content, I just don’t want to learn about God because it tends to upset me more than comfort.

Lastly, did you know that there are people out there who know precisely what you are describing, almost to a “T”? And that some of these people make a conscious and painful choice to turn away from feeling hostility toward their fellow man and toward the suffering Jesus, because accepting death in rejection is the only action that holds any lasting truth?

I’m sure there are, though I’m guessing they at least had God to hold on too and take comfort in. I simply don’t.

 

[LilyM]

Firstly David was not such a winner - he spent a long time as a hunted and persecuted outlaw, hated by Saul for no good reason, sometimes in real fear for his life. And he deeply loved Saul, so it must have been heartbreaking to be in David’s situation - read the beautiful and heartfelt poem he composed when Saul died.

Then when David became king his own son Absalom rebelled against him - again David’s reaction at the death of this son leaves no doubt as to his real grief.

And did David and Bathsheba really get away with much? They lost their precious child who died because of their sin.

Any parent can tell you it is a devastating thing to lose a child, just as much so when it is by miscarriage. Imagine how much worse knowing that you were the cause of that child’s death!

How do you know that God loved Uriah less than David? Uriah was probably welcomed into heaven by Him with open arms no less than David.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I’m no therapist but have you tried any typical stress relief activies? You know, sports, video games, reading, writing emotional stuff, anything that gets your mind rushing and pouring out?

I’ve had moments like yours to be honest and I can honestly say that leisurely activity is still a valid outlet for frustration.

 

[Uriah_Betrayed]

I’m no therapist but have you tried any typical stress relief activies? You know, sports, video games, reading, writing emotional stuff, anything that gets your mind rushing and pouring out?

Video Games mostly, I get home late and don’t own any sports equipment-nor do I like the idea of just playing by myself. I do enough writing and reading for school that I have no desire to do so creatively. As for Video Games, they seem to be just an added stress since I can’t seem to do good in those either.

How do you know that God loved Uriah less than David? Uriah was probably welcomed into heaven by Him with open arms no less than David.

I suppose your right. I guess I’m just too focused on earthly view of these people, where one is a noble king and the other gets to be remembered as a cuckold whose wife became more important than she ever would have been if she remained faithful to Uriah.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Video Games mostly, I get home late and don’t own any sports equipment-nor do I like the idea of just playing by myself. I do enough writing and reading for school that I have no desire to do so creatively. As for Video Games, they seem to be just an added stress since I can’t seem to do good in those either.

You don’t have to be a master gamer. About 90% of gamers aren’t anyways. What matters is you’ve got something to pour out all the stress.

What do you write for school? From my experience, writing creative fiction always had the opposite of writing for work (or my studies back then).

 

[Rebelecka]

First of all, give thanks that you still believe in God!

Next, find things to thank God for. Let’s say that it is a beautiful day out…“Thank you for the beautiful day, Lord” is plenty to say. Short thank yous like that. “Thanks that I made the light,” (driving, crossing a street), “Thanks that I passed that class, God.” These will slowly prepare you to find the good things in your life.

Now about your fellow students…my daughter in University also has the same complaint. Realize that college students of young age are generally self-centered. Indeed, I will agree with you that nowdays, most people are self-centered. Our society has basically become “It’s all about me.” What can you do? About the only thing is to be the opposite; be caring (even if its an act) to others, listen to their problems, encourage them. St. John of the Cross says that where there is no love, put love and you will draw out love.

Finally, are you suffering from depression? You might get that checked out and get on medication if needed. Generally the Universities have a health clinic, try there.

God bless you and good luck!

 

[in_servitude]

I’ll be blunt, no flowers I am filled with wrath. It is a very bottled and subtle fury. I’m perfectly capable of talking to people, to enjoy the company of most people; I would say I’m socially awkward and I can’t retain someones attention more than 4 minutes for the most part. I mention this because perhaps this is the a reason for these feelings, I don’t know…

But the problem is when I’m away from people, free from the public eye all this anger toward people and humanity just erupts. It sometimes isn’t even a certain type of person that drives my anger, recently its become just people in general make me seeth with rage.

I can honestly say if humanity could be collectivized into one sole individual in my isolated moments I feel like I’d beat them down with my fists with pure hatred in my heart.

Out of guilt I try to come up with reasons why I feel this. The most likely one that I’ve come up is that I hate the morally empty people that live in this world nowadays and at the same time I hate the faithful and the holy for having something I’ve lost. That and I really don’t like myself…

I’ve also realized that it’s pointless to learn about God if I feel this way.

When I see you write, “I really don’t like myself…”, I actually have a taste of that. Not to the extent that you’re showing here, but a taste. It has taken me a long time to learn how to like myself. It’s odd since I was given so many compliments by my parents as a child. But, I did have my parents model hostility towards their own self image. They were quick to say things like, “Oh, I’m so stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid…” I actually picked that up and practiced it nicely. People would try to let me know differently - just annoyed me on the inside.

When you say, “I can’t retain someones attention more than 4 minutes”, it indicates to me that you might not know where you stop and the other people start - the boundary between you and others. Generally, attention is given by a person - not obtained and retained by another.

You can do things without being the best at it. You can do things and always be the worst at it. If you decide to go to a museum and look at the art hanging on the wall - you might do the worst job ever. But, maybe you’ll enjoy it. Then, when you’re talking with others, you might be able to make a connection through your art experience. I’m not saying art is the answer - just giving yourself more experiences.

In any event, it will be easy to retain your wrath. It will be hard to change that. Are you looking to change? If you are looking for a change, I suspect that the fix will be a very long difficult challenge. But regardless of that, making that change with the support of our Heavenly Father will speed the journey.

 

[Kithrus]

I used to have a horrible temper but ironically I started listening to angry music working my self up to a frenzy then playing something soothing and bringing myself down.

Some people I knew personally at the time thought I was weird for it but after years of this practice no matter how angry I became I could turn it off or channel it.

Also having a personal weakness for a sin doesn’t mean you can’t come close to God.

A wise priest at Opus Dei gave me advice I’ll never forget.

“Even your sins give glory to God. They show us our failed lowly place in the universe.”

Thats not to encourage the sinner but to give hope your not a lost cause.

 

[timotheos]

I choose this name because the story of David and Bathsheba almost perfectly symbolizes my feelings that God only loves a winner. In that story David the so called blessed king who is mentioned as worthy of being the ancestor of Christ literally got away with murder and dishonoring Uriah in the harshest of manners.

To Uriah, God had no pity. Uriah the Hittite, a loyal soldier to David who probably stuck by him when he was still a bandit terrorizing Saul’s countryside. He gets betrayed by his comrades in arms, who choose to follow orders and their king over doing what’s right-leaving him to die in the midst of battle. He gets betrayed by David who lies to his face trying to cover up his sin. He gets betrayed by his wife who in the end gets to remain QUEEN OF ISRAEL and have the children that become the heirs of Israel that are most famous (Makes you almost think God WANTED David to commit adultery; why else would he give David heirs that were geniuses? If God wanted he could have made Solomon an idiot ruler as punishment to David, but no instead he figures one miscarriage is enough punishment for his Golden Boy.

I’d say that’s about right. I can’t maintain a conversation with anyone so basically all my life is people talking to me when there is no one else around and then immediately gravitating toward someone else once a new person enters the room. Of all the people I know in the university probably two don’t do this too me.

Then there are the two extremes, on one side is people who are so morally bankrupt that just being in their presence makes me burn up inside. And then there are more pious people, Catholics who actually attend mass and who have a connection with God. I mentioned before I get upset that they somehow see God as loving when all I can see is a Deity that barely cares about us. And of course there is anger out of envy of people (scratch that everyone) who is better than me at pretty much everything. I cannot compete, when I compete I lose no if-ands-or buts about it.

When I’m upset my hatred goes to God for making me such a waste of flesh, for never caring about humanity abandoning us for 2000 years, and for never helping find faith or have any reason to believe he exists in the first place. When I’m content, I just don’t want to learn about God because it tends to upset me more than comfort.

I’m sure there are, though I’m guessing they at least had God to hold on too and take comfort in. I simply don’t.

Thanks Uriah. I mean it, and I’m glad you are here. I know your anger, trust me, I know it well and better than you think. But you articulate it much better than I could have at your age. And your anger doesn’t repel me at all, as it shows you are looking for the truth in this life that all too often seems to make no sense.

I will leave you with one thought: What do David and Uriah have in common? Answer: They are both long dead, on earth anyway. Sure, their lives on earth were nothing like each other; one was a king, the other was an honorable man and victim of a despicable plot borne of lust and greed. Both were given their positions in life by God himself, and both served God’s purpose in their own ways. But now, both are dead. Do you understand? Any glory in this life always, always ends the same way. What about eternity though? The one who had knowledge of eternity, Jesus himself, said the last shall be first.

 

[admonsta]

Things are not always what they seem. David did a terrible thing to Uriah (so did his wife), but I’m certain that Uriah’s reward in Heaven is great. He was a faithful servant on this earth. God is just. David did a bad thing, but he repented afterwards. We should believe he was genuine in his remorse. Every person deserves the chance to repent.

I read in your words that you are not confident in yourself. You have trouble in social settings and you want friendship but it’s not easy for you. Therefore you’re angry at other people. Do you feel like they get it and you don’t? I felt like that for much of my life. I managed to get married, and my husband is a massive extrovert. He pushed me to interact with people much more, and as I grew older it got easier. I’m still edgy and nervous at times, but vastly better than I used to be. Age helps.

Those people who are morally bankrupt - I feel sorry for them. I really worry about them because they don’t realise what they are doing. Sometimes they anger me (my atheist brother who ridicules my religion), but mostly I feel real sadness that they don’t get it and I don’t know if there’s anything I can do to show them the truth. The very pious people make me feel inferior, because I doubt I’ll ever be like them. But I need to see them and watch what they do because I can learn from them and perhaps become a bit better. None of us are born with all the answers. Life is a struggle and struggles are (believe it or not) a blessing because we must always keep in mind our ultimate goal - Heaven. Nothing else is important.

One tip: in social situations ask people about themselves. If you want to be known as a great conversationalist, learn to be interested in other people’s stories. Learn to listen and be truly interested, and you’ll hold people’s attention for longer.

Another tip: you’re not seeing the full story about other people. We are all struggling. Each of us with a different load, but even those people who look like they’re doing it easy are struggling (they just hide it better).

And, God loves you more than you could know. He will never stop loving you. He gave you a measure of gifts, more than some people, less than others. Try to figure out what your gifts are, and how you can use them to give glory to God. For example, I think one of my gifts is… well, gee, this is hard! I know that my gift is NOT confidence. I can’t stand up for what I believe unless I’m protected behind the anonymity of the internet. I am okay with that now, and I try to focus on what I can do.

Ask God to help you see your gifts. Ask Him to give you the graces to feel connected with your fellow man. Offer up your feelings of rejection for the Holy Souls so that at least your suffering is useful. Also, even if you don’t feel very gifted, remember that you can get better at things. You can practice and improve and maybe even become a master.

Okay, I’m going to go and think about what my gifts are, because I just realised that I don’t really know. Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

 

[Uriah_Betrayed]

To give an update to my current condition, I feel like I’ve burnt out all my wrathful feelings at least temporarily.

Believe me when I say these past two nights I was having very heavy bouts of rage. Funnily enough the last thing that I got extremely mad to the point of breaking down was the fact that I lost one of the batteries to a remote control after tossing it on the floor in anger. Very silly I know…

In any case, minor annoyances don’t leave me extremely upset right now. I still think talking on this forum helped, but mostly I think I just got a chance to let out a lot of bottled up anger at people and things in general.

I mean I’m not a changed man, I still certainly find problems in judging people who are too pious or spiritually empty and the other things I mentioned, but right now it doesn’t seem as important to my life.

 

[Uriah_Betrayed]

Eh scratch that last part, this forum reminded me Catholics are the most hated people in the world and that we’ll never win any moral battle in the godless States of America and the rest of the West. Now I’m back to feeling I ought to just build myself a bunker and isolate from the world and its stupid people…

 

[domandcarols]

Praying for you, brother.

 

[timotheos]

Eh scratch that last part, this forum reminded me Catholics are the most hated people in the world and that we’ll never win any moral battle in the godless States of America and the rest of the West. Now I’m back to feeling I ought to just build myself a bunker and isolate from the world and its stupid people…

Understandable reaction; you recognize what a scum-pit the world is (you are light-years ahead already regardless of how you might feel). But the servant is not greater than the master. I wish a life of faith meant a peaceful existence with like-minded believers, but nooooo. Oh, this is a really tough teaching for me personally, but because it is so difficult, its truth is that much greater. We are supposed to stand up for truth, and we will be hated for it. Don’t worry if you are not ready for this yet. You will know you are beginning to be ready when truth becomes more precious than physical comfort. When you cannot stay silent anymore, when you grow weary from keeping it in.