Writing a response to a protestant doctrinal basis

[jonnyws]

Just to give you all some background.

In Britain in almost every university there is a ‘Christian Union’ which is a society for Christians to come together, pray and be educated in their faith. However these societies are Evangelical and Protestant in nature. They have a doctrinal basis that members must sign before they can take an active role in the society. At the university I’m at quite a few catholics are tricked into thinking that this is true Christianity and end up joining them and many of these leave the Church in the end.

I’m trying to create a leaflet that can be distributed to Catholics explaining what’s wrong with this doctrinal basis and why we can’t sign it. I’ve attached the original doctrinal basis below along with my initial thoughts on it - I’d appreciate all the help I can get on refining this and making it simple enough for everyone to understand but yet still comprehensive enough not to leave questions in the mind of the reader.

Just a note on my background - I have a degree in Theology and Religious Studies and I’m currently doing an MA in Theology Philosophy and Literature.

Links to the documents can be found below; please help! You’ll be stopping hundreds of young Catholics from leaving the Church!!!

Doctrinal basis: scribd.com/doc/26166635
Catholic response: scribd.com/doc/26166678

 

[Julian0404]

Which Bible? The Catholic Bible has 6 more books all inspired and desired by God through the Magistarium to be included and taught. If the document is signed by any Catholic, there needs to be an addendum that the Catholic Bible can be inclusive to the Union, available to all members and used to teach ALL union members.

If you agree up front to remove inspired scripture from a religious union, than the religion of the union must be challenged as being Christian. “If you love Me, you will obey My commandments” - Paraphrase of Jesus. And through Jesus chosen leader and the magistarium, the whole truth of Jesus is found in the inspired books of the Catholic Bible,

 

[kepha1]

I’ll post the doctrinal basis with numbers for easy reference.

Nottingham University Christian Union Portland Building University Park Nottingham NG7 2RD
In order to become a full, voting member of Nottingham University Christian Union the constitution states that you should sign to show your agreement with the aims of CU and the doctrinal basis.

STATEMENT OF FAITH

“In joining with the Christian Union as a full voting member I declare: My faith in Jesus Christ as my personal Saviour, Lord and God, and in the unity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I will seek both in life and thought to be ruled by the teaching of the Bible, believing it to be the inspired word of God. I accept the aims of the Christian Union, as stated below, and will seek to fulfil them in the strength which God supplies.”

AIMS OF THE CHRISTIAN UNION

Our aim is to make disciples of Jesus Christ in the student world for the glory of God. This is outworked through living for Jesus and speaking for Jesus: Living for Jesus: we are committed to the spiritual growth of the CU members which means learning more of what it means to be a follower of Jesus through understanding what the Bible says. This is so that we might live lives which please Him and which make the gospel look attractive to our non-Christian friends. Speaking for Jesus: we need to tell our friends the good news of Jesus Christ so that some might be saved and come to a relationship with Him as Lord, Saviour and God. We seek to enable, equip and mobilise the CU to be effective in evangelism. I hereby declare that I agree with the statement of faith and aims of Nottingham University Christian Union, and would like to become a voting member of the Christian Union. NAME…………………………………………………SIGNED……………………………………DATE……………….

DOCTRINAL BASIS

1. 
   *]The doctrinal basis of the Christian Union shall be the fundamental truths of Christianity, as revealed in the Holy Scripture; these include:
   *]The Father, the Son and the Spirit are one in the Godhead. God is sovereign in creation, revelation, redemption and final judgement.
   *]The Bible is inspired by God (God-breathed) and infallible, as originally given, and is the supreme authority in all matters of what to believe and how to live.
   *]Since the fall, human nature everywhere is sinful and people are guilty; this makes everyone subject to God’s wrath and condemnation.
   *]The Lord Jesus is fully God, his incarnate Son; he was born of a virgin, his humanity real and sinless; he died on the cross, rose bodily and is now reigning in heaven and earth.
   *]We are redeemed from the guilt, penalty and power of sin only through the sacrificial death once and for all time of our representative and substitute, Jesus Christ, the only mediator between God and sinners.
   *]Sinners are pardoned all their sins, and accepted as righteous in God’s sight, only because of the righteousness of Christ, credited to them; this justification is God’s act of undeserved mercy, to be received solely by trust in him.
   *]The Holy Spirit is needed to make the work of Christ effective to individual sinners, and enables them to turn to God from their sin and to trust in Jesus Christ.
   *]The Holy Spirit dwells in all those he has regenerated, producing in them increasing likeness to Christ in character and behaviour, and giving them power for their witness in the world.
   *]The one holy universal church is the Body of Christ to which all true believers belong.
   *]The Lord Jesus will return in person, to judge everyone, to execute God’s just condemnation on those who have not repented and to receive the redeemed to eternal glory.

1. 
   I hereby declare that my religious beliefs are in accordance with the doctrinal basis of Nottingham University Christian Union, as set out above. NAME…………………………………………………SIGNED……………………………………DATE……………….
   
   Nottingham University Christian Union are sola scripturists. If a Catholic is well grounded in their faith, there is no reason why they cannot be involved with this ecclesial community. There is nothing in this statement that REQUIRES SIGNATURE, only if you want to be a voting member. No one should be excluded for not signing, although that may be an unwritten rule. Catholics can participate, but I don’t think Catholics have any business signing this document. “We seek to enable, equip and mobilise the CU to be effective in evangelism.” It needs to be determined if they mean rescuing Catholics from the Church, which is often the case with sola scripturist bless-me-clubs.

 

[kepha1]

Robin Hood University Christian Union ,
Sherwood Forest Building.
TOS 2OS

In order to become a full, voting member of Robin Hood University Christian Union the constitution states that you should sign to show your agreement with the aims of RHUCU and the doctrinal basis.

1.  “In joining with the RHUCU as a full voting member I declare:

My loyalty to the Magisterium.

I agree with all points of the Apostles Creed as the original meanings consistently taught by the official teachings of the Catholic Church.

The harmony of Scripture and Tradition
Since the fall, human nature is not all sinful, we can respond to God’s grace. Matrimony, instituted by God, predates the fall and was not affected by it.

Divine affiliation.

Justification by Faith and Works With God’s Grace.

The Holy Spirit dwells in all those he has regenerated, producing in them increasing likeness to Christ in character and behavior by receiving the sacraments and as a result increases my ability to live a moral life which aids me to enjoy the freedom to be who am.

The one holy universal church is an Extension of the Incarnation, united by the Eucharist to which all true believers should belong.

I hereby declare that my religious beliefs are in accordance with the doctrinal basis of Robin Hood University Christian Union, as set out above. NAME…………………………………………………SIGNED……………………………………DATE……………….

 

[Drawmack]

Just to give you all some background.

In Britain in almost every university there is a ‘Christian Union’ which is a society for Christians to come together, pray and be educated in their faith. However these societies are Evangelical and Protestant in nature. They have a doctrinal basis that members must sign before they can take an active role in the society. At the university I’m at quite a few catholics are tricked into thinking that this is true Christianity and end up joining them and many of these leave the Church in the end.

I’m trying to create a leaflet that can be distributed to Catholics explaining what’s wrong with this doctrinal basis and why we can’t sign it. I’ve attached the original doctrinal basis below along with my initial thoughts on it - I’d appreciate all the help I can get on refining this and making it simple enough for everyone to understand but yet still comprehensive enough not to leave questions in the mind of the reader.

Just a note on my background - I have a degree in Theology and Religious Studies and I’m currently doing an MA in Theology Philosophy and Literature.

Links to the documents can be found below; please help! You’ll be stopping hundreds of young Catholics from leaving the Church!!!

Doctrinal basis: scribd.com/doc/26166635
Catholic response: scribd.com/doc/26166678

You have a degree in theology so you’re probably better equiped than I, But, I do have some suggestions:

First, and foremost, remember that the most important part of applogetics is bridge building. That being said, look to the bullets in the doctrinal basis that a Catholic can affirm as is and start off by affirming them. For example you take except with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being joined in a Godhead – this is biblical terminology.

The second point, “God is sovereign …” Just say I agree

In your response to the third point you claim that parts of the New Testament were written hundreds of years after the events. Most Biblical scholars agree that the entire New Testament was written before 100 AD. So, no it was not written hundreds of years after the fact – heck Paul wrote large portions of it, how long do you think he lived?

Point 5 Catholics can just say I agree

Point 8 Catholics can just say I agree

On a stylistic note. If you really want to write a response to the Doctrinal Basis – keep your counterpoints to the same (or at least very close to) the length of the original statements. Do you really think that Evangelicals cannot go on for paragraphs about each of those sentences? Just write up a list and any points that a Catholic can affirm – even with explanation (but not reservation) just say the same thing and then come up with one sentence counterpoints to the rest.

From reading what you’ve written so far it seems almost like you went through looking for what is wrong with it instead of looking for what it right with it and that makes you come off as a curmudgeon.

 

[NHInsider]

The last phrase of item 7 is explicitly heretical as it denies the necessity of baptism, if you’re looking for reasons not to sign.

On the other hand, I would probably take the tack of challenging them directly and publicly, on their stance that “Christian” exludes Catholics.

Let them try to defend it. It’s certainly not in line with the spirit (or the text) of Evangelicals and Catholics Together.

 

[jonnyws]

You have a degree in theology so you’re probably better equiped than I, But, I do have some suggestions:

First, and foremost, remember that the most important part of applogetics is bridge building. That being said, look to the bullets in the doctrinal basis that a Catholic can affirm as is and start off by affirming them. For example you take except with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being joined in a Godhead – this is biblical terminology.

The second point, “God is sovereign …” Just say I agree

In your response to the third point you claim that parts of the New Testament were written hundreds of years after the events. Most Biblical scholars agree that the entire New Testament was written before 100 AD. So, no it was not written hundreds of years after the fact – heck Paul wrote large portions of it, how long do you think he lived?

Point 5 Catholics can just say I agree

Point 8 Catholics can just say I agree

On a stylistic note. If you really want to write a response to the Doctrinal Basis – keep your counterpoints to the same (or at least very close to) the length of the original statements. Do you really think that Evangelicals cannot go on for paragraphs about each of those sentences? Just write up a list and any points that a Catholic can affirm – even with explanation (but not reservation) just say the same thing and then come up with one sentence counterpoints to the rest.

From reading what you’ve written so far it seems almost like you went through looking for what is wrong with it instead of looking for what it right with it and that makes you come off as a curmudgeon.

I’m afraid I did go though looking for what was wrong rather than what we can agree with. I’m going to begin a re-writing now which I’ll put on here when I’ve got it finished.

One point though - I was referring to the Old Testament when speaking of books being written hundreds of years after the event - the New Testament varies from 10 years (1 Thessalonians) to close to 70 (John’s Gospel). I’m attempting to get a face to face dialogue going with these guys about what they mean by Christian union, by Christian and why they feel its necessary to exclude almost all mainstream creedal Christianity. So far they don’t want to talk…

 

[Drawmack]

One point though - I was referring to the Old Testament when speaking of books being written hundreds of years after the event - the New Testament varies from 10 years (1 Thessalonians) to close to 70 (John’s Gospel).

It actually occurred to me that you were probably referring to the Old Testament after I posted that, but I decided not to leave an addendum because if I misunderstood you on an initial read then other people probably will to.

I’m attempting to get a face to face dialogue going with these guys about what they mean by Christian union, by Christian and why they feel its necessary to exclude almost all mainstream creedal Christianity. So far they don’t want to talk…

If they are an organization that is recognized by the University and allowed to operate as a University sanctioned club then you can probably get the University to step in and force them to change things so they are truly Christian and not only Evangelical. On the other hand, if they are a private organization they can have whatever membership rules they want. You might not like this, but it is simply a fact. I would recommend that the best way to engage them would probably be to take the doctrinal statement to them asking for explanation.