Written in our human heart

[COPLAND_3]

I have re-registered as COPLAND 3, though I am the same copland that has always been on here, but due to loss of password and so on I have re-registered. Please, no need to explain how I can retreive my old password. Thanks though!

Anyway, I am getting ready to lead a small group on the Catechism through a program called “Why Catholic?” I will be posting some threads concerning the material that I will be covering just to get prepared, so all are welcome to discuss with me!

As Catholics we believe that the desire for God is written in the human heart. I think that this is worthy of some thought. What does that mean to you, to be written in the human heart? I am interested in some insight on this.

My handbook elaberates some on this saying that “within each person an internal desire is for God, and a deep yearning for the holy.”

Thanks! I am lookong forward to some responses!

 

[COPLAND_3]

As I am beginning to investigate this thought about being written upon the human heart, I found a similar phrase in Romans 2:15

Who shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them, and their thoughts between themselves accusing, or also defending one another,

St. Thomas Aquinas says (Q106,1,2),

There are two ways in which a thing may be instilled into man. First, through being part of his nature, and thus the natural law is instilled into man. Secondly, a thing is instilled into man by being, as it were, added on to his nature by a gift of grace. In this way the New Law is instilled into man, not only by indicating to him what he should do, but also by helping him to accomplish it.

So, taking what Aquinas says, the desire for God written in our hearts must be added on to his nature by a gift of grace .

How does that sound?

 

[COPLAND_3]

Well, as I read what I have posted so far, I do need to consider, is the desire for God a part of our human nature, or is it added on by a gift of grace? Pope Benedict XVI years ago wrote in “The Truth of Christianity” on this, and he said, “the speech of the ‘heart’ can be heard, because God’s Torah may be heard within ourselves, in our creaturely being,” So, does this mean that it is added on by grace or part of our human nature? Seems to be the latter. I suppose that this is what makes us so different from animals, the desire for God.

 

[Nita]

Paul’s words in Romans 1:20 come to mind also:

“Ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature, namely, His eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.”

I think perceiving the reality of God’s existence from nature invokes a desire to know more about Him - to know more about the source of such beauty, fruitfulness, power, order, etc.

Nita

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Copland

I posted this in the Apologetics thread one day over the weekend.
The thread in entitled something like: Do these people do works of the law?

I copied and pasted three of my ideas together. It might make some senes, but it might not.

Romans 2: 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another…

This sounds like Jeremiah’s New Covenant.

The word for nature is the same word that St. Peter uses: sharing in the Divine Nature.

I was wondering if God’s love is not written on the hearts of the Gentile Christian.

This is why I asked: It is extremely difficult to discern.

But some Gentiles did do the works of the law.
And it seems the only way one can do the works of the law is with that which completes the Law–Christ.

These Gentiles DO the things of the LAW.

Romans 2: 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another…

I find this to be interesting too: Rather, in every nation whoever fears Him and ACTS UPRIGHTLY is acceptable to Him.

KJV Acts 10: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

These people act or work rightousness.

Concerning the the doers of the law, I wounder if that is Enoch and Noah.

Noah and Enoch were some really good Gentiles.

 

[COPLAND_3]

Seamus,

You have spotted in Romans the word that I overlooked, “nature.” The Greek word that St. Paul used is FUSEI which is feminine singular dative of FUSIS. It means birth, origin, nature, inborn quality, natural parts; disposition, etc. St. Jerome translated it as “naturaliter.” You mentioned St. Peter and the “divine nature,” it is the same lexical word used but it is feminine singular genitive FUSEWS. It seems that every human has the desire for God written in their heart (KARDIA). But the New Covenant is written in the heart by being added on to our nature by a gift of grace, which I imagine is what Peter refers to as the divine nature (2Peter 1:4). But as far as being a religious being, every human heart has had that instilled in their nature.

I fell that this statement (written in their hearts) may be asked about by the group, and it does seem to be something that requires some meditation in order to grasp it. I believe that this is very important philosophically, because this is what separates us from animals. Animals are not religious beings, we are.

 

[jcrichton]

I fell that this statement (written in their hearts) may be asked about by the group, and it does seem to be something that requires some meditation in order to grasp it. I believe that this is very important philosophically, because this is what separates us from animals. Animals are not religious beings, we are.

---

Hi, COPLAND!

I think that you are on the money but keep mixing both values…

Romans 1:20 speaks not of the Law Written in our hearts but of Yahweh’s revelation to all that He is God the Creator, the Provider, the Protector. None can claim that there’s no God if only they view their environment honestly. This law calls to awareness of a superior being–though rudimentary it can facilitate the more complex spiritual law which requires us to go beyond simple awareness.

2 St. Peter 1:4-15 speaks on that spiritual nature which we are to acquire through Jesus; one which we must continue to nurture as we strive to attain perfection (Romans 8:1-39–conversely see 2 Corinthians 3:3). This spiritual law requires that we go beyond being passive observers of the natural law; that we become active members of Yahweh’s people as we seek to grow according to the spiritual law that He has written in our hearts.

Maran atha!

Angel***

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Are these passages and O. T. Gentiles important for the Lutheran and Catholic discussions?

In terms of righteous Gentiles, could one list Seth, Noah, the Prince of Salem, Job, Enoch and even the Centurian in the Gospel?

Well, it is just a thought.

 

[Nita]

In terms of righteous Gentiles, could one list Seth, Noah, the Prince of Salem, Job, Enoch and even the Centurian in the Gospel?

Well, it is just a thought.

Technically, I don’t think Seth and Noah can be called Gentiles since Gentiles is a designation coined by the Jews to apply to non-Jews. Prior to the start of the Jewish people (with Abraham), it doesn’t seem to me you could apply “Gentile” to anyone. Don’t know about the Prince of Salem. He was born before Abraham (if he was Noah’s son Shem as some believe) - but was still living at the time of Abraham. So, I guess he could be called a gentile.

Nita

 

[Nita]

St. Thomas Aquinas says (Q106,1,2),
Quote:

There are two ways in which a thing may be instilled into man. First, through being part of his nature, and thus the natural law is instilled into man. Secondly, a thing is instilled into man by being, as it were, added on to his nature by a gift of grace. In this way the New Law is instilled into man, not only by indicating to him what he should do, but also by helping him to accomplish it

That sounds good. I would stress the bolded portion of Aquinas’ statement (“by helping him to accomplish it”} as that is what seems to distinguish it from arriving at the natural law through human reason (as the Gentiles mentioned in Romans 2:15).

Nita

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Concernign righteousness and those who are not children of Abraham: I John 3: 12 Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.

I thought this was interesting, I was merely reading I John and saw Abel is does works of righteousness.

This is interesting to me.

 

[CathFaith1]

The days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers the day I took them by the hand to lead them forth from the land of Egypt; for they broke my covenant and I had to show myself their master, says the LORD.

But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD. I will place my law within them, and write it upon their hearts; I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jeremiah 31:31,34

 

[flyersfan1088]

Our parish went through the first 6 Why Catholic? sessions in the fall, getting ready to start 7-12 during Lent. These questions will probably not even come up. If you look through the workbook, you’ll notice it is extremely lacking. My group wanted to know literally WHY CATHOLIC? Feel your group out early, and I would venture a guess that you will stray far from the material in the workbook in your discussions. Good luck.

 

[COPLAND_3]

flyersfan1088,

I guess it will depend on who is in the group. I do hope that there will be a good mix in order to keep the ball rolling. I agree as far as it being lacking, but only if it was intended to be a “Bible Study,” but I think the booklet may spur on some good discussions. I used to teach Sunday School and lead Bible Studies, and I really don’t have a desire to go down that road again under the same structure unless the people in the class or group has a hunger for the Word of God. That is a rare thing anymore!

 

[flyersfan1088]

flyersfan1088,

I guess it will depend on who is in the group. I do hope that there will be a good mix in order to keep the ball rolling. I agree as far as it being lacking, but only if it was intended to be a “Bible Study,” but I think the booklet may spur on some good discussions. I used to teach Sunday School and lead Bible Studies, and I really don’t have a desire to go down that road again under the same structure unless the people in the class or group has a hunger for the Word of God. That is a rare thing anymore!

I am anything but a fan of Renew, who put that booklet out. One of the weeks sessions are to end by going outside, looking at the stars, and spontaneously composing prayers. My group just laughed when we came to that part. It all seemed a little “flower power” to us.
Our bulletin inserts touted the sessions as a way to learn to defend the faith. The outlines given in the booklet don’t do that at all. We had an appreciation dinner for all of the group leaders, with about 20 of us showing up. All but 2 or 3 said that their group was hoping for an apologetics course.
It was very good for introducing some people to faith sharing that had never experienced it before. But as far as actually introducing people to the Catechism, it fell short. By the end of the 6 weeks, at least 3 people still hadn’t even bothered to BUY a Catechism. But I’m sure each group is different.

 

[ryanoneil]

I STRONGLY RECOMEND TEACHING FROM THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Section 1 in the prologue
The Life of Man - To Know and Love God
scborromeo.org/ccc/prologue.htm#I

Part 1 Chapter 1
The Desire for God
scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c1.htm#I

CCC1965 The New Law or the Law of the Gospel is the perfection here on earth of the divine law, natural and revealed. It is the work of Christ and is expressed particularly in the Sermon on the Mount. It is also the work of the Holy Spirit and through him it becomes the interior law of charity: “I will establish a New Covenant with the house of Israel. . . . I will put my laws into their hands, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

Peace,

Ryan