Wrong Form for Confession?

[Antonius_Lupus]

I went to confession today with a Filipino priest that I have been going to for a long time.

I have noticed lately that when he gives absolution, he doesn’t always follow the format strictly. As I understand it, the form for the sacrament is: *“I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” *

I noticed however that he noticeably left out the “the” and the “and” in the form (especially the latter) sounding more like:

“I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.” Or something like that.

The point is that the formula wasn’t totally there, and I could tell.

I treated the confession as being valid, but I am seriously concerned about this.

What constitutes an invalidation of the sacramental form? Was this such omission such an invalidation?

I am going to do more research on it, but until I have a good answer I am going to refrain from Holy Communion.

 

[MarkThompson]

I went to confession today with a Filipino priest that I have been going to for a long time.

I have noticed lately that when he gives absolution, he doesn’t always follow the format strictly. As I understand it, the form for the sacrament is: *“I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” *

I noticed however that he noticeably left out the “the” and the “and” in the form (especially the latter) sounding more like:

“I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.” Or something like that.

The point is that the formula wasn’t totally there, and I could tell.

I treated the confession as being valid, but I am seriously concerned about this.

What constitutes an invalidation of the sacramental form? Was this such omission such an invalidation?

I am going to do more research on it, but until I have a good answer I am going to refrain from Holy Communion.

The confession is valid; the article the is not an indispensable part of the trinitarian formula. (Latin doesn’t even have articles).

PS, the same goes for people who are concerned about the validity of the Eucharist when the priest says, “This is my Body, that will be given up for you,” and the like.

 

[Antonius_Lupus]

The confession is valid; the article the is not an indispensable part of the trinitarian formula. (Latin doesn’t even have articles).

PS, the same goes for people who are concerned about the validity of the Eucharist when the priest says, “This is my Body, that will be given up for you,” and the like.

What about the “and”? The Latin has “et Filii” etc.

 

[malphono]

Was the absolution given in Latin?

 

[Antonius_Lupus]

Was the absolution given in Latin?

No, it was in English.

 

[MarkThompson]

What about the “and”? The Latin has “et Filii” etc.

Don’t get me wrong; he should say it as it’s given in the appropriate liturgical instructions. But minor variations in wording which do not affect meaning do not invalidate the sacrament. The repetition of “and” in the form “X and Y and Z” is called polysyndeton, and it not necessary for meaning, because in English conjunction is equally conveyed by only an “and” between the last two items (“X, Y, and Z”).

 

[malphono]

No, it was in English.

OK, that’s what I thought. In which case, personally, I wouldn’t sweat this one. The priest merely missed an article and maybe a conjunction. Or perhaps he was in a rush and just elided the whole thing. Doesn’t really matter. Now, if he had said something like “I absolve you by the power of God” and that was it, then you might have cause to fret. But as it is, I cannot even think there’s a question of validity. Just MHO.

 

[Antonius_Lupus]

Don’t get me wrong; he should say it as it’s given in the appropriate liturgical instructions. But minor variations in wording which do not affect meaning do not invalidate the sacrament. The repetition of “and” in the form “X and Y and Z” is called polysyndeton, and it not necessary for meaning, because in English conjunction is equally conveyed by only an “and” between the last two items (“X, Y, and Z”).

Ah I see. But what constitutes “minor”? For example, I cannot remember if he put an “and” before Holy Spirit. What if he missed that last “and”, would the meaning be changed?

My spiritual director agrees with me in that I’m being anal about this, but even still, it raises questions IMO.

 

[Spirithound]

I went to confession today with a Filipino priest that I have been going to for a long time.

I have noticed lately that when he gives absolution, he doesn’t always follow the format strictly. As I understand it, the form for the sacrament is: *“I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” *

I noticed however that he noticeably left out the “the” and the “and” in the form (especially the latter) sounding more like:

“I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.” Or something like that.

The point is that the formula wasn’t totally there, and I could tell.

I treated the confession as being valid, but I am seriously concerned about this.

What constitutes an invalidation of the sacramental form? Was this such omission such an invalidation?

I am going to do more research on it, but until I have a good answer I am going to refrain from Holy Communion.

THE ABSOLUTION YOU RECEIVED WAS VALID. Articles and conjunctions are pieces of language that make it sound all nice, but they’re just not necessary in a general way.

Ah I see. But what constitutes “minor”? For example, I cannot remember if he put an “and” before Holy Spirit. What if he missed that last “and”, would the meaning be changed?

My spiritual director agrees with me in that I’m being anal about this, but even still, it raises questions IMO.

No, that would not change the meaning.

 

[edward_george]

Ah I see. But what constitutes “minor”? For example, I cannot remember if he put an “and” before Holy Spirit. What if he missed that last “and”, would the meaning be changed?

My spiritual director agrees with me in that I’m being anal about this, but even still, it raises questions IMO.

I agree with your spiritual director. Don’t worry about it. If you continually worry about such things, it could lead to scrupulosity. Your sins are absolved, so don’t worry about it.

-ACEGC

 

[Wildkit]

I remember when I first received confession,…I could not hear the priest,…and always wondered whether I was absolved or not. That was 50 years ago.

Sometime later,…maybe Vatican 2(?), it seems like one could hear the absolution and I knew I felt better. Yet, in terms of whether the priest’s accent or brogue was absolutely understood,…I would not worry about it,…just IMHO.

 

[thistle]

Ah I see. But what constitutes “minor”? For example, I cannot remember if he put an “and” before Holy Spirit. What if he missed that last “and”, would the meaning be changed?

My spiritual director agrees with me in that** I’m being anal about this**, but even still, it raises questions IMO.

How many posters have to say your absolution was valid for you to believe it???
Believe it and move on!

 

[edward_george]

How many posters have to say your absolution was valid for you to believe it???
Believe it and move on!

Not just posters, but your spiritual director. If you can’t trust your spiritual director enough to be in obedience to him, then you’re going to have problems.

-ACEGC

 

[Antonius_Lupus]

How many posters have to say your absolution was valid for you to believe it???
Believe it and move on!

No, you’re right.

I thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut. It was most helpful, and at the end of the day I am going to choose to believe that my confession was valid.

Thanks again.

 

[baltobetsy]

Glad to hear it.

You know, back in the dark ages (before 1970 or so), the absolution was given in Latin at the same time as you made your act of contrition. As far as you knew, the priest could have been quoting “Winnie the Pooh,” but no one worried. Trust the priest. I’m guessing his first language is not English.

 

[Cojuanco]

Don’t worry about it - likely it’s just a dialect issue. Comes from the fact that a lot of Filipino-American priests grew up in the Old Country, so their English can have a thick accent to it…

 

[AJV]

Ah I see. But what constitutes “minor”? For example, I cannot remember if he put an “and” before Holy Spirit. What if he missed that last “and”, would the meaning be changed?

My spiritual director agrees with me in that I’m being anal about this, but even still, it raises questions IMO.

No, it would not. Neo-scholastic thinking would say that the invocation of the Trinity may be left out of the prescribed form without affecting the validity, anyway. As other people have mentioned, usually articles and conjunctions do not affect validity. The essential thing is that the meaning is preserved.