Wrong views about Mortal Sin

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It actually says it’s morally disordered (2352), and can be mitigated by the circumstances surrounding its execution.

By contrast, the CCC specifically says rape is intrinsically evil (2356).

“Gravely contrary” is not the same as “intrinsically evil” as far as I can tell.

The word evil - even as secularly defined - involves and implies malevolence. Huge difference in the evil of rape and the “evil” (and you’ll never convince me of it) of masturbation.

Now - CAN it be? Sure. If a man is addicted to porn and uses masturbation over seeking sexual union with his wife - yes, I’m all in agreement with that as likely evil (although there’s the intent factor yet again). But as compared to murder? No. Not even at THAT level can I ever be convinced of their equality.

And sin is sin, sure. And not everything is mortal or necessarily venial either.
 
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Even suicide in the case of “grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide”.

That was oddly enough one of the first things I looked up in the CCC when I first started looking at the Catholic faith. No idea why.
 
Pup7 said:
The word evil - even as secularly defined - involves and implies malevolence.
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Right, typically “evil” is used to refer to a malicious intent, although there can still be an act whose object is evil (as opposed to good or neutral), for instance…euthanasia, done with the (misguided, since we are not consequentialists) intention to do good-- that still doesn’t change the fact that the object is evil. I suppose “evil” sounds a strong term to use irrespective of the intention, but when speaking of the object alone disordered is essentially the same, in that it’s disordering a good. Although I would say the malice is in opposing whatever applicable virtue, in this case chastity.

But the Catechism is still clear that masturbation is a sin of grave matter, so it would still be a mortal sin if the conditions were all met. Now, there may seem to be less overt “evil” in one’s disposition when committing it than in the case of one committing murder, but an to act in a way gravely contrary to virtue is still to sin gravely.
Pup7 said:
But as compared to murder? No. Not even at THAT level can I ever be convinced of their equality.
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Mortal sins are not necessarily equal in gravity. I believe the Catechism states that murder is worse than theft, which I suppose seems rather obvious.
 
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You might take this as a cop out, and that’s fine (it’s not), but I can go along with that. That makes sense. Fair enough. I can nod along with logic. Plus you’re not saying things I can’t actually reference and see.

I still disagree with “evil”, and as I said, that could very well be a semantics issue.
 
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catholic1seeks said:
If you look at how people on CAF talk about sexual sins (for example, masturbation), you will see severe concerns about going in and out of Mortal Sin and then back to the state of grace. Surely this is not how we ought to think of Mortal Sin, no? Is it really that easy for a faithful Christian to fall out of the state of grace (and risk hell) only to pop back up after weekly confession?
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Excellent critical thinking going on here 👏.
I came to that conclusion myself some 40 years ago…even before acquiring my theological qualifications…which confirmed me in that view.

Its an insidious distortion of Graceology and human nature before God.
 
I think is comes down to a question of culpability. Can a sin really be called “mortal” if other factors reduce culpability, as the CCC indicates?
 
Let me add a quick analogy here. A man eats dinner: meatloaf, mashed potatoes, and carrots. After dinner he is full; he no longer hungers. But, he thinks a cookie might taste good. So he opens a box of chocolate chip cookies and eats one. The first one tasted like another, he thinks. So he eats a second. Ten minutes later the man has eaten an entire box of chocolate chip cookies. Now this is obviously and objectively gluttonous. And disordered too, because he is eating not to nourish his body but rather to feed for the inordinate desire for pleasure through food. In this case, if everything “disordered” is also “evil”, then we have to be consistent and say that eating chocolate chip cookies can be evil, too.

I’m sorry, but I’m with @pup7 on this one. The CCC clearly demarcates between things that are truly evil (rape, as outlined above) and things that are disordered.
 
I don’t think so because Mortal sin by definition means an act done through total freedom and knowledge and the mitigating factors are actually impediments of freedom that also raise doubts bout the knowledge.
 
Ok so technically:
Masturbation is always grave matter
Masterbation is intrinsically evil

For one to commit a mortal sin it has to be 1)grave matter 2)full knowledge that its grave matter 3)full consent of the will

The reduction in culpability may be that a person doesnt have sufficient knowledge that masterbation is grave matter especially in such a sex saturated society as ours. Althoigh, In my opinion masturbation goes against the natural law so it should be obvious that it is a sin.
 
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catholic1seeks said:
One must be cautious that one doesnt fall into the fundamental option heresy where one believes that one mortal sin will not send one to hell, only a person who constantly commits mortal sin loses Gods grace.
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There may be. To be in the state of sanctifying grace requires cooperation with that grace which is an action to avoid the near occasion of sin and to do positive works of charity and penance.
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And don’t forget force of habit and the few other items the CCC lists “affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors reducing culpability”.

Far too much pressure put on young people over this matter.
 
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I think the young have to be taught the truth that masturbation is evil and gravely so. But also that God is merciful and wants us to keep trying. The young should be taught that even one venial sin hurts God, God would rather us refrain from One venial sin than to do many good works.
 
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Eating cookies is not Intrinsically evil so it depends on intentions and circumstance to say whether not the person sinned. If he knew before hand that eating all those cookies was being a glutton then yes it was a sin.
 
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I don’t see any issue with the moral object of gluttony being considered evil. Eating cookies is not intrinsically evil, but gluttony is in itself disordered; it “privates or disorders” a good, which is how one user here described evil.

Outside of intent, I don’t see what makes one sin evil and another merely disordered, aside also from circumstances making neutral acts into evil/sinful ones, such as the cookie example above. It seems to me to be the intent that leads us to apply a more common understanding of the word “evil,” but intent is not what is being discussed.

The way I see it, if an act is in itself not morally good or neutral… it is morally evil, as in doing so is in itself immoral and can never be permissible. And intrinsically disordered acts are not neutral or good. Eating cookies however is not intrinsically disordered, we would likely say it is in itself neutral.

I suppose one could also say those actions being clearly labelled “evil” by posters here in themselves cause harm to other persons, but I don’t think that should be the basis for an act’s being evil either.

Aaaaand I just used the word “evil” way too many times. And again.
 
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Just what the devil loves…dont even mention the word evil… If you do just keep to once a day…
 
So if I understand you correctly you believe the man is committing an evil act by eating those cookies. It’s objectively disordered, he knows it’s wrong, and he obviously gives his consent to the act. So eating those cookies is evil in your mind.
 
In that situation, since it’s sinful-- directly opposing virtue-- I don’t see why not. It’s not nearly as evil as murder, of course, not even close, but it’s still sin. Isn’t sin evil?
 
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