Wrong words in absolution

[porthos11]

FYI, the Byzantine Catholic Churches use “You are absolved”, and that is a valid Sacramental form.

And in the Chaldean Church, the words used are " I forgive" (in Arabic) as the normative form.

So when you mean “The Church”, are you referring to customary practices within one Particular Church, or are you referring to the Catholic Church as a whole.

If you are referring to the Church as a whole, the Church has a wide variety of valid Sacramental forms for absolution.

Latin church only.

We had no reason to presume the OP was not dealing with a Latin priest, so we comment based on the law of the Latin church.

I guess that makes me legalistic. That seems to be a favourite word around CAF these days.

 

[dans0622]

“Competent authority”.
Is given by Christ. The priest has it.

Hello,

A priest in the confessional is not able to determine, in an authoritative way, what is a valid/invalid form for absolution:

“Canon 841: Since the sacraments are the same for the whole Church and belong to the divine deposit, it is only for the supreme authority of the Church to approve or define the requirements for their validity; it is for the same or another competent authority according to the norm of can. 838 §§3 and 4 to decide what pertains to their licit celebration, administration, and reception and to the order to be observed in their celebration.”

Dan

 

[goout]

Hello,

A priest in the confessional is not able to determine, in an authoritative way, what is a valid/invalid form for absolution:

“Canon 841: Since the sacraments are the same for the whole Church and belong to the divine deposit, it is only for the supreme authority of the Church to approve or define the requirements for their validity; it is for the same or another competent authority according to the norm of can. 838 §§3 and 4 to decide what pertains to their licit celebration, administration, and reception and to the order to be observed in their celebration.”

Dan

I get that. But in regards to confession anxiety, the poster should know that the priest has the competence and the authority to forgive sins, and he needn’t be further anxious about the language problem or applying canon law.

 

[LiamQ]

It is not the role of the laity to pronounce ecclesiastical right or wrong based on preference.

What does that have to do with a priest substituting words during absolution?

 

[LiamQ]

… the poster should know that the priest has the competence and the authority to forgive sins…

Only God forgives sins! My goodness, let’s be more careful in our language.

Don’t forget that, when someone commits a mortal sin, they can be forgiven of their sins outside of Confession with an act of perfect contrition. But of course, they still need to go to Confession, because they have not yet been absolved. Absolution is a juridical act.

I don’t know why folks are so perfectly OK with playing fast and loose with the form and matter of a Sacrament. Let’s be clear here: many of the arguments in this thread can be used to simply ask well why go to Confession at all? Don’t be such a legalist!

I have no way of knowing whether the absolution was valid, but I know that at the very least, the priest didn’t do what he was supposed to do. And that stinks.

Maybe Fr. Don could explain to us what the correct answer is here.

 

[Neofight]

Latin church only.

We had no reason to presume the OP was not dealing with a Latin priest, so we comment based on the law of the Latin church.

I guess that makes me legalistic. That seems to be a favourite word around CAF these days.

And a favorite of the Holy Father this week.

 

[Brendan]

Latin church only.

We had no reason to presume the OP was not dealing with a Latin priest, so we comment based on the law of the Latin church.

I guess that makes me legalistic. That seems to be a favourite word around CAF these days.

Since you specifically referenced Sacramental form, I was pointing out that the Sacramental form for this Sacrament DOES vary, and the words using by the priest in question are recognized by the Church as valid form, and thus no reason for anyone to doubt the validity of the absolution.

Ergo, it was not ‘messed with’

 

[Optimus_Prime]

Thanks everyone. All of the answers were helpful.

 

[CaptFun]

I went to confession to a nice Nigerian priest today. Instead of “I absolve you…” he said “I forgive you…”. So I nicely asked him, if he would repeat the absolution with the word “absolve”. In his kindness he did but it came out like this “May God absolve of all your sins…”.

I did not ask for a third try as I did not want to insult him and he was clearly intending to absolve me. I believe this was a language barrier and not an attempt to change the words on purpose.

So… am I absolved?

Dave

Without contradicting the advice to be calm in the knowledge that your sins ARE forgiven (regardless of words technically spoken or unspoken by the priest in question) … I feel your confusion and lack of ease in this.

After going to confession regularly over the years and hearing the comforting words of absolution … one priest gave a very informal abbreviated version of the prayer (if that’s even what it was), and left me as unsettled as you seem to be.

The prayer I was used to was this (below) … the words in red were all he said … and very informally.

God the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of your son, you have reconciled the world to yourself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins. Through the ministry of the church, may God grant you pardon and peace. And I absolve you of your sins, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Actually it was more like “OK … I forgive you. You’re forgiven.” as I remember it.

I took solace that I had done the right thing, confessed the mortal sins, and presented myself in the sacrament … and after all God knew my heart and attitude and the priest was sitting “in persona Christi” for me. Jesus doesn’t cease to be the high priest and has the ability (and tendency ) to forgive repentant sinners … so I went to communion the next day with a clear conscience. Notwithstanding my shallow understanding of Church technicalities per what needs to take place for the sacrament to be valid.

I don’t think I re-confessed those sins later. I had others by then.

Thanks for posting though Dave, I appreciate it.

 

[Optimus_Prime]

Without contradicting the advice to be calm in the knowledge that your sins ARE forgiven (regardless of words technically spoken or unspoken by the priest in question) … I feel your confusion and lack of ease in this.

After going to confession regularly over the years and hearing the comforting words of absolution … one priest gave a very informal abbreviated version of the prayer (if that’s even what it was), and left me as unsettled as you seem to be.

The prayer I was used to was this (below) … the words in red were all he said … and very informally.

Actually it was more like “OK … I forgive you. You’re forgiven.” as I remember it.

I took solace that I had done the right thing, confessed the mortal sins, and presented myself in the sacrament … and after all God knew my heart and attitude and the priest was sitting “in persona Christi” for me. Jesus doesn’t cease to be the high priest and has the ability (and tendency ) to forgive repentant sinners … so I went to communion the next day with a clear conscience. Notwithstanding my shallow understanding of Church technicalities per what needs to take place for the sacrament to be valid.

I don’t think I re-confessed those sins later. I had others by then.

Thanks for posting though Dave, I appreciate it.

Thank you for understanding! I have also since confessed, to the same priest, and he got it right this time. I also did not re-confess.

 

[thistle]

Thank you for understanding! I have also since confessed, to the same priest, and he got it right this time. I also did not re-confess.

It sounds like the priest just made a mistake the previous time so no bad intent.

As a general comment, though, the priest MUST use the word absolve and not forgive. Some people think these words mean the same thing but they do not. They are different. Absolution includes forgiveness but forgiveness does not necessarily include absolution.