WWYD? "Please stand and greet your neighbor."

[EasterJoy]

Being how our Lord introduced the teaching of the Eucharist in John 6, immediately after he fed 5000 people with loaves of bread and fishes. And he instituted the Blessed Sacrament at the last supper, surrounded by his apostles as a family (Family, is my best description of our Lord and his apostles). I most certainly do not view the Holy Mass as a “picnic”. But I most certainly do view it as a Family Dinner. Truly this is the best imagery of the Holy Mass that I see in my mind. Jesus, along the with all the inhabitants of heaven and the members of the church. Gathering as one family and Being fed by the Lord through his Eucharist, in both spirit and body. Like I said, I’m not going to call it a “picnic”, but I will call it a family dinner. And, no I do not believe that there is anything wrong to acknowledge members of your family sitting at the table, before the dinner (mass) begins.

Well, no, but the problem is that the Eucharist has two dimensions, and we unfortunately live in a world that has great difficulty with both.

One is the dimension of utter unity of charity, unity of purpose, unity of self-sacrificial intent. I do not doubt that bringing this dimension to the fore is the motive of “stand and greet those around you.”

The other, however, and possibly even rarer in this vale of tears, is unity in reverence and awe before the glory of God and the array of Heaven. In the Mass, as you will agree, we enter into an eternal moment that has no parallel in the universe, and we do so by entering not merely into a Feast by which we are unified and fed, but also into a Sacrifice by which we will be consumed ourselves, our unworthiness being covered and healed by the complete worthiness and total self-gift of Our Savior on our behalf.

I don’t think it is the goals that are at cross purposes. One goes hand-in-hand with the other; there is no conflict. I think, rather, that the question is whether or not this particular custom serves the end for which it is intended in good faith.

That has simply not been my experience. The custom intends to unite, but the effect is superficial. The custom of quiet preparation, meanwhile, is interrupted, and that in contrast is a custom that does (in my experience) result in a better awareness of and participation in the Divine Mystery being celebrated, in both its dimensions.

We do not live in a time that is imbued with either reverence or awe but with a sense of familiarity that takes great things for granted. We come into an attitude of more appropriate reverence only through conscious effort. An attitude of familiarity with our fellows, in contrast, is far closer to the societal norm, particularly in the United States. (Not that an attitude of open caring that puts our own preferences aside in favor of those of others is by any means the societal norm, rather than individualism–I will grant you that!!)

I do want to reiterate that I believe the motive behind this custom is fine. I just don’t think it does what it sets out to do, that is all, and I also think the interruption it requires is not anything like as harmless as is often supposed. I accept that a pastor might disagree with that assessment and that because the custom is not an abuse, per se, that this is his perogative. I’m simply saying that my feedback would not be in favor of continuing the practice, even though I feel I am bound in good conscience to comply with a generous heart when called on to do so. So yes, we ought to fight the societal norm to have a preference for our own way, yes.

I don’t think that giving feedback about how well this custom works is an inappropriately individualistic thing to do, however, provided the person is willing to comply if the pastor chooses not to see the feedback as a reason to change the custom.

 

[DaveBj]

I just learned that the parish that we’re visiting for Vigil Mass this Saturday in Ocala does that “stand up and introduce yourself” thing. Oh, joy!

 

[EasterJoy]

I just learned that the parish that we’re visiting for Vigil Mass this Saturday in Ocala does that “stand up and introduce yourself” thing. Oh, joy!

It isn’t ideal, but it is not that bad, because of course the Holy Spirit will help us to make the most of anything we accept obediently. It is not as if they will be asking you to give tacit approval to a liturgical abuse. If they do ask you to do it, there is no choice but to really and truly be friendly and make the best out of it that can be made of it.

Sometimes it helps to remember those stories St. Thérèse of Lisieux told of herself:

…I see now that true charity consists in bearing with the faults of those about us, never being surprised at their weaknesses, but edified at the least sign of virtue. I see above all that charity must not remain hidden in the bottom of our hearts, for “no man lighteth a candle and putteth it in a hidden place, nor under a bushel, but upon a candlestick, that they who come in may see the light.” (Luke 11:33). It seems to me that this candle is the symbol of charity; it must shine out not only to cheer those we love best, but ALL those who are of the household… Should the devil draw my attention to the faults of any one of them when I am seeking to increase this love in my heart, I call to mind at once her virtues an her good intentions. I tell myself that though I may have seen her fall once, there are probably a great many other occasions on which she has won victories which, in her humility, she has kept to herself. What may appear to me to be a fault may even be an act of virtue because of her intention, and as I have experienced this for myself, I have little difficulty in persuading myself that this is indeed the case… … …There was at that time a certain nun who managed to irritate me in everything she did. The devil had a part in it, for it was certainly he who made me see all her bad points. Not wishing to give way to natural antipathy, I reminded myself that sentiments of charity were not enough; they must find expression, and I set myself to treat her as if I loved her best of all. I prayed for her whenever we met, and offered all her virtues and merits to God. I was sure that Jesus would be delighted at this, for artists always like to have their work praised, and it pleases the Divine Artist of souls when, not stopping at the exterior, we penetrate the inner sanctuary where He dwells, to admire its beauty. I prayed earnestly for this Sister who had caused me so much struggle, but this was not enough for me. I tried to do everything I possibly could for her, and when tempted to answer her sharply, I hastened to give her a friendly smile and talk about something else, for, as it says in The Imitation, “It is better to leave everyone to his own way of thinking than begin an argument.” (Imit., III, xliv, 1). Sometimes, when the devil made a particularly violent attack, if I could slip away without letting her suspect my inward struggle, I would run away from the battle like a deserter; and what was the result? She said to me one day, her face radiant: “What do you find so attractive in me? Whenever we meet, you give me such a gracious smile.” What attracted me? It was Jesus hidden in the depths of her soul, Jesus who makes attractive even what is most bitter…
… … . For a long time I had to kneel during meditation near a Sister who could not stop fidgeting; if it was not with her Rosary, it was with goodness knows what else. Maybe no one else noticed it; I have a very sensitive ear. But you have no idea how much it annoyed me.* I wanted to turn around and glare at the culprit to make her be quiet, but deep in my heart I felt that the best thing to do was to put up with it patiently, for the love of God first of all, and also not to hurt her feelings. So I kept quiet, bathed in perspiration often enough, while my prayer was nothing more than the prayer of suffering!** In the end, I tried to find some way of bearing it peacefully and joyfully, at least in my inmost heart; then I even tried to like this wretched little noise. It was impossible not to hear it, so I turned my whole attention to listening really closely to it, as if it were a magnificent concert, and spent the rest of the time offering it to Jesus. It was certainly not the prayer of quiet! Another time, washing handkerchiefs in the laundry opposite a Sister who kept on splashing me with dirty water, I was tempted to step back and wipe my face to show her that I would be obliged if she would be more careful. But why be foolish enough to refuse treasures offered so generously? I took care to hide my exasperation. I tried hard to enjoy being splashed with dirty water, and by the end of half an hour, I had acquired a real taste for this novel form of aspersion. How fortunate to find this spot where such treasures were being given away! I would come back as often as I could. So you see, Mother, what a very little soul I am! I can only offer very little things to God. These little sacrifices bring great peace of soul, but I often let the chance of making them slip by. However, it does not discourage me. I put up with having a little less peace, and try to be more careful the next time.*

 

[Viki63]

Our parish has this custom. There is time to pray silently before the procession and the first hymn, then the priest asks us to greet one another. It takes about 1 minute, we just turn and smile, maybe wave at a few people who are close to us. Then he gives the blessing and mass begins.
It’s nice to see the same friendly faces each Sunday, and I enjoy it although I’m an introvert.

I have more trouble with the sign of peace later in the mass. I try to greet especially people who are alone or might not be noticed, as they are sometimes not included. But our congregation is actually pretty good at greeting everyone.

.

 

[pnewton]

You and several others have made this about people. I never said the people are repugnant. The action is. Love the sinner, hate the sin, right? And before someone else leaps on that, I’m not calling this greeting thing a sin or an abuse.

No, I actually thought even using the word “repugnant” or any of the other synonyms for the action was rather odd.

As for the priest carefully weighing pros and cons, you must know different priests than I have come across. Lucky you!

I did not use this phrase, as I do not think anything so formal went into what the the priest did, but I am following Church teaching which tells us that we must give the most favorable and charitable interpretation to the actions of others to avoid rash judgment. I have always done this doubly for priest and clergy.

 

[pnewton]

Well, no, but the problem is that the Eucharist has two dimensions, and we unfortunately live in a world that has great difficulty with both.

I have to remind myself that some of the anti-social (in a literal sense, not the pejorative) comments about Mass may be a reaction from those who have experience a loss of the sacred in an over zealous desire for social interaction. In other words, the balance may be so far tilted in the experience of some to make any attempt at social interaction seem too much.

So we all have different experiences that may affect our opinions. I see this as a reason to be very cautious in judging what some priest some where and some when, is doing some thing. Also, maybe I need to be a little patient with those who do react a little more guttural on this issue.

 

[DaveBj]

It isn’t ideal, but it is not that bad, because of course the Holy Spirit will help us to make the most of anything we accept obediently. It is not as if they will be asking you to give tacit approval to a liturgical abuse. If they do ask you to do it, there is no choice but to really and truly be friendly and make the best out of it that can be made of it.

snip

I’m going to play it by ear; I’m not just going to sit there like a mugwump. I might treat it like the stereotypical AA meeting:

“My name is David and I’m a Catholic.”

“Hi, David!”

 

[Erikaspirit16]

I have to remind myself that some of the anti-social (in a literal sense, not the pejorative) comments about Mass may be a reaction from those who have experience a loss of the sacred in an over zealous desire for social interaction. In other words, the balance may be so far tilted in the experience of some to make any attempt at social interaction seem too much.

So we all have different experiences that may affect our opinions. I see this as a reason to be very cautious in judging what some priest some where and some when, is doing some thing. Also, maybe I need to be a little patient with those who do react a little more guttural on this issue.

Aha! You’ve got it! Good.

 

[EasterJoy]

I have to remind myself that some of the anti-social (in a literal sense, not the pejorative) comments about Mass may be a reaction from those who have experience a loss of the sacred in an over zealous desire for social interaction. In other words, the balance may be so far tilted in the experience of some to make any attempt at social interaction seem too much.

So we all have different experiences that may affect our opinions. I see this as a reason to be very cautious in judging what some priest some where and some when, is doing some thing. Also, maybe I need to be a little patient with those who do react a little more guttural on this issue.

I think the bishops refer to this as emphasizing the horizontal (a focus on our love of and duties towards our neighbor) at the expense of the vertical (a focus on our love of and duties towards God).

Still, the point made by pnewton remains: that is, individual members of the faithful are rarely called upon to have an opinion on this. You can give your pastor feedback and the reasons for your opinion, but that often won’t change anything and usually won’t change anything very soon. Even if some pastors do try to take feedback into account as much as they can, there is no way to please everyone. Our shepherds need their sheep to allow themselves to be lead, too.

Even should obedience and humility require us to comply with a custom that objectively interferes with our vertical focus, we can choose to find a source of generosity towards our neighbor by achieving a horizontal focus by means of a vertically-oriented motive. Sometimes, as St.Thérèse found, this attitude will result in those who drive us the most crazy ending up feeling the most loved. That little way of being is a very powerful way; that is why she was made a Doctor of the Church.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Overall I find it ironic that even though evangelicals are often accused of having a “just me and my bro Jesus” attitude that does away with the need for communal worship, in reality evangelical churches often serve not just as places of worship but as active faith communities, and it seems many “ex-Catholics” who wind up at those churches do so as much out of a need for fellowship, if not more, as they do because they dissent from Church teachings.

Indeed, the question of “is it ok to go to an evangelical church for fellowship as long as I also meet my Mass obligation” has been asked many times on CAF. I suspect at least some of the Catholics who have done this, wound up leaving the Church entirely.

I think the bishops refer to this as emphasizing the horizontal (a focus on our love of and duties towards our neighbor) at the expense of the vertical (a focus on our love of and duties towards God).

And yet that is not the same as stating that the Mass is all about the vertical and the horizontal has no role at all.

 

[pnewton]

Overall I find it ironic that even though evangelicals are often accused of having a “just me and my bro Jesus” attitude that does away with the need for communal worship, in reality evangelical churches often serve not just as places of worship but as active faith communities,

Oh, I know the answer to this one. Evangelical/Protestant churches have the same problem we Catholics do with those who are raised a few years in a faith the abandon, seldom to darken the doors again. They may still identify as a Baptist, Methodist, etc., but their underlying laziness toward God is self-justified by this attitude that religion is just about them and God.

Those Catholics that repudiate the social context of Mass may have this one thing only in common with these people (the “me and Jesus” thing), but may be the opposite of spiritually lazy. Some may be very spiritually aware but have some sort of psychological disorder that makes socialization next to impossible. Some may be deep ascetics who simply have not had the proper direction in this one area. Whatever the case, we should treat them with respect and not force them into a corner, that is if we sense the hesitancy on their part. Just smile more broadly and greet from a distance. That is the best for some people.

 

[EasterJoy]

Oh, I know the answer to this one. Evangelical/Protestant churches have the same problem we Catholics do with those who are raised a few years in a faith the abandon, seldom to darken the doors again. They may still identify as a Baptist, Methodist, etc., but their underlying laziness toward God is self-justified by this attitude that religion is just about them and God.

Those Catholics that repudiate the social context of Mass may have this one thing only in common with these people (the “me and Jesus” thing), but may be the opposite of spiritually lazy. Some may be very spiritually aware but have some sort of psychological disorder that makes socialization next to impossible. Some may be deep ascetics who simply have not had the proper direction in this one area. Whatever the case, we should treat them with respect and not force them into a corner, that is if we sense the hesitancy on their part. Just smile more broadly and greet from a distance. That is the best for some people.

Just to clarify: Those of us who think the custom of “greet those around you” right before Mass starts is a superficial act that does not accomplish a good commensurate with the good it sets aside should not be presumed to have an immature “me and Jesus” attitude, let alone “some sort of psychological disorder that makes socialization next to impossible”! I trust that this is not what you meant by “those Catholics that repudiate the social context of Mass” (whatever it was that you did mean by that).

By the way, do you think Carmelites and Trappists are anti-social “me and Jesus” types? Why would you say they devote so much of their lives to silence, even while working together and holding everything they have in common? Why would you say, for instance, that this kind of greeting was not invented in Benedictine monasteries, which are famous for their hospitality?

I would say that if we Catholics have become antisocial, the evidence is not in a desire to have silence immediately prior to the beginning of Mass. The evidence is more in the habit of letting attendance at Mass become the only contact time we have with other members of the faithful at any time during the week, the month, or even the year.

Those times when it did not occur to anyone to have this kind of a greeting were also times in which members of the faithful belonged to some kind of active group within their parish: the altar society, the Knight of Columbus, the St. Vincent de Paul Society, the Catholic Order of Foresters, and so on. It was not hard to meet people in the parish. It was more like hard to avoid being roped into a certain expected amount of social participation. Catholics might also be expected to join social groups organized according to their ethnic background, as well, coming together for parades, carnivals, and so on.

We are still learning to attend to fellow Catholics in our own parishes whom this transient society brings to us more or less as strangers. They do not share our ethnic background, our family background, or even our politics. We may disagree on how to* be* Catholic on a day-to-day basis in a way that previous fellow parishioners rarely did.

I think, however, that as important as it is for parishioners to be on the lookout for parishioners who long for human contact but are too shy to ask for it, it has to be incumbent on individual Catholics to come forward and make a connection with fellow parishioners as much as the other way around. In any case, offering another handshake in addition to the Sign of Peace isn’t going to do it for them. I’ve been a new person in a parish, and honestly–what does that accomplish? If the people shaking hands with you are going to be peeling out of the parking lot practically before the last stanza of the closing song is done, pretty much zilch.

I have become a fan of wearing name tags once a month; I have to say that. It makes introductions with people we are too shy to admit we don’t know after having gone to the same Mass with them for a long time or even people we have volunteered with!

 

[pnewton]

Just to clarify: Those of us who think the custom of “greet those around you” right before Mass starts is a superficial act that does not accomplish a good commensurate with the good it sets aside should not be presumed to have an immature “me and Jesus” attitude, let alone “some sort of psychological disorder that makes socialization next to impossible”! I trust that this is not what you meant by “those Catholics that repudiate the social context of Mass” (whatever it was that you did mean by that).

Your clarification is most correct. That was not what I meant. That particular practice could have a whole bunch of reasons someone might think it a bad idea, and a bunch more why they might think it ineffectual. I was referring to a complete repudiation of the social context of Mass.

 

[pnewton]

I have become a fan of wearing name tags once a month; I have to say that. It makes introductions with people we are too shy to admit we don’t know after having gone to the same Mass with them for a long time or even people we have volunteered with!

I am usually not one to change text size, but I wanted to emphasize this. It is a different idea that my prove useful to some. I think I will suggest it for our upcoming Stewardship Sunday.

 

[Irishmom2]

I am usually not one to change text size, but I wanted to emphasize this. It is a different idea that my prove useful to some. I think I will suggest it for our upcoming Stewardship Sunday.

It’s hard to believe that people are not going to object to name tags. If they don’t even want to say “hello” I can imagine they certainly won’t want anyone knowing their name. I envision lots of name tags with incorrect names, like at high school reunions when spouses that did not attend the school make up names. (Yeah, that’s me, Maureen O’Hara. )

 

[1neophyte]

If someone tried to put a name tag on me at a church, it would be wise to first make certain they had their health insurance card with them to provide to the check in desk at the ER.

 

[EasterJoy]

It’s hard to believe that people are not going to object to name tags. If they don’t even want to say “hello” I can imagine they certainly won’t want anyone knowing their name. I envision lots of name tags with incorrect names, like at high school reunions when spouses that did not attend the school make up names. (Yeah, that’s me, Maureen O’Hara. )

We haven’t had that, possibly because people are encouraged to use name tags but not directly approached if they don’t elect to use one. Based on conversations with long-time parishioners, however, I suspect that the compliance comes about because so many have a few names they would like to learn, but are afraid to ask about!

Besides, if anyone is known within the parish at all and tried a fake name tag, their “brothers and sisters” in Christ would never let them hear the end of it!!!

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I imagine name tags would be pretty helpful when you have a bulletin that says things speak to Jane Doe for more information and you dont have a clue who Jane Doe is.

 

[pnewton]

It’s hard to believe that people are not going to object to name tags.

There would be no need to object when they could simply not wear one, though few, if any, people come to sign up to help the Church who want to keep their name anonymous.

 

[pnewton]

If someone tried to put a name tag on me at a church, it would be wise to first make certain they had their health insurance card with them to provide to the check in desk at the ER.

Isaac Asimov called violence the last refuge of the incompetent. I would bet a simple, “No, thank you,” would suffice to decline a name tag.