Wwydiywg?

[Spock]

What Would You Do If You Were God? This question comes up periodically. Of course the answer is too simple: “NOTHING”. From the pinnacle all roads lead downhill. A perfection cannot be improved upon, no matter what is added to it or taken from it. The only logical thing would be to do nothing.

As such the posited God of Christianty is an illogical and irrational being. Since creating anything will destroy his “lonely perfection”, only an irrational and illogical being would want to do that. And the believers want to “sell” that kind of illogical being as being “perfect”. It does not work.

 

[laircy]

It’s not like he’s turning himself into something less than perfect. He can still be perfect and have a less than perfect creation.

 

[You]

What Would You Do If You Were God? This question comes up periodically. Of course the answer is too simple: “NOTHING”. From the pinnacle all roads lead downhill. A perfection cannot be improved upon, no matter what is added to it or taken from it. The only logical thing would be to do nothing.

As such the posited God of Christianty is an illogical and irrational being. Since creating anything will destroy his “lonely perfection”, only an irrational and illogical being would want to do that. And the believers want to “sell” that kind of illogical being as being “perfect”. It does not work.

He doesn’t do nothing. In fact He does everything. He maintains your systems while you criticize Him, He feeds you and makes the sun shine on you. He maintains everything in existence. If He ceased to exist everything would cease to exist.
Everything He created He created ‘good’ and as soon as this temporary rebellion is over He will make all things new again. You cannot beat Him, He is All, logic and generosity included.

 

[Spock]

It’s not like he’s turning himself into something less than perfect. He can still be perfect and have a less than perfect creation.

The whole “shebang” came down in perfection. And that is illogical. Prior to that there was God → perfection. After that there was God + world → no perfection. And to volitionally decrease the level of perfection into imperfection is irrational and illogical. As such God is illogical and irrational, so he was not perfect in the first place… Unless, of course, someone insists that to be “perfect” one must also be “iilogical and irrational”. I will not be surprised in someone will assert exactly that. It would be par for the course. After all the number of irrational posts is approaching to infinity.

 

[You]

If He is perfect then He would need to be perfectly generous. To be perfectly generous He would need to create vast quantities of creatures to share and experience His perfection and perfect love. To create creatures who can experience this perfectly they needed to be created with freewill.
I think your idea of perfection falls short of what is possible.

 

[StarFireKK]

What Would You Do If You Were God? This question comes up periodically. Of course the answer is too simple: “NOTHING”. From the pinnacle all roads lead downhill. A perfection cannot be improved upon, no matter what is added to it or taken from it. The only logical thing would be to do nothing.

As such the posited God of Christianty is an illogical and irrational being. Since creating anything will destroy his “lonely perfection”, only an irrational and illogical being would want to do that. And the believers want to “sell” that kind of illogical being as being “perfect”. It does not work.

Forum Rules:

1. Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.

It is like you are trying to get banned, Spock.

 

[Wardog]

Forum Rules:

1. Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.

It is like you are trying to get banned, Spock.

Ah, I get it,
What would I do if I were God?

Ban Spock from the forums.
Now that would be perfect.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

Forum Rules:

1. Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.

It is like you are trying to get banned, Spock.

Ah, I get it,
What would I do if I were God?

Ban Spock from the forums.
Now that would be perfect.

Being “respectful” of Catholics doesn’t necessarily mean you have to agree with their point of view. In fact, you are even free to consider the views Catholics hold as illogical. I’ve always interpreted the forum rules to mean that you can’t swear or post insulting remarks about Catholics (who would want to anyway unless you’re a troll?)

If you were strong in the faith, you would be encouraging Spock to post more! If you knew God existed beyond doubt, Spock’s remarks would be of little pertinence to you! At least by having him post here, you can grasp the views that certain atheists have and therefore provide an effective response to the given view(s). What you seem to want is to “live in a bubble”. What you seem to want is where every poster high-fives each other for deploring Communion on the hand, guitar masses or a society going down a moral precipice. That’s not reality. In the real world, you’ll come across people of all faiths and beliefs, and some may not even be as respectful as Spock. Whilst I have reservations about certain users who have been banned, at least I can say that by the moderators allowing Spock and similar users to post frequently, they’re ensuring CAF bears some resemblance to reality.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

As such the posited God of Christianty is an illogical and irrational being. Since creating anything will destroy his “lonely perfection”, only an irrational and illogical being would want to do that. And the believers want to “sell” that kind of illogical being as being “perfect”. It does not work.

As for you Spock ,

One of the tenets of Christian theology is that God is not dependent on anything. He is self-sufficient in his own right. He did not and does not need to create anything. So creating something can not “destroy” his perfection nor does it fulfill some kind of loneliness, as to assert such is to contradict a fundamental point in Christian theology.

It is commonly held by Catholic theologians that God created Humanity out of his surplus love. Hence why Humanity was made in his image. This would probably explain why God “grieved” when Adam and Eve fell: “The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain” (Genesis 6:6).

*Edit: This view is surprisingly found elsewhere in philosophy. Karl Marx, the forefather of Communism, believed that workers created goods and services out of some kind of innate human need. He regarded Capitalism as having an inherent “alienation” between the worker (Proletariat) and his produce because the worker gives his product to the boss (Bourgeoisie). Karl Marx, through a systematic methodology called historical materialism, concluded that this wasn’t always the state of things and only a Proletarian revolution would allow a worker to rightfully earn what was his. If I am not mistaken, Karl Marx was to a certain degree influenced by the alienation (i.e. The Fall) found in Genesis, and applied it to political economy.

 

[BigFellaMick]

It’s always those that doubt the faith or simply choose to deny faith altogether are the ones seeking hardest for the answer to the God question. Please understand friend that God exists outside of our reach. All the understanding and logic in the world won’t be able to reach God. God created everything including humanities flawed systems of logic. If you’re here to troll, kindly go elsewhere. If you’re here to learn, then please raise your arguments in a constructive manner. If all you seek is to debase and scandalize than you won’t find anything fruitful here and are wasting your time as well as these wonderful peoples. You might not believe in God but know that He loves you very much and He won’t give up on you. I pray for the conversion of your mind and heart that you may one day understand the beauty of God’s undying and infinite love for all of us Go in peace my friend.

 

[samiam1611]

If I were God, I would make it so that when a pet died, the owner would die too, so that they wouldn’t have to feel the pain of losing a pet. or else pets would live as long as their owners
I would make everyone have the metabolism they want so that they could eat all the food they want and not get fat
I would make the weather better (mid 70s and sunny in most places, warmer at the beach, colder where appropriate like mountains for people to ski). No natural disasters like hurricanes. No rain, there would just be the perfect amount of water everywhere.
I would not give people acne
No insects especially mosquitos and bed bugs
People would not rape or murder or child abuse or any kind of abuse
No STDs
People TTC would get pregnant. People TTA would not.
Phones would not lose service
Dogs would not shed
They would always have your size when you go clothes shopping
Drugs would not exist or else they would not be addictive or harmful
No mental illness, no physical illness, or mental handicaps or physical handicap
There would always be plenty of parking anywhere you went
There’d be no such thing as “too drunk” and no hangovers, people would just get the perfect amount drunk that they would just have fun but not do stuff they regret
Friends (the TV show) would still be on the air (new episodes)
Would never have to shave - would always have perfectly smooth legs or face or whatever you currently have to shave - and guys could grow perfect beards or mustaches or whatever, if that’s what they want
Heels would not be difficult to walk in or hurt your feet after awhile
Babies would not cry or wake up in the middle of the night
Sex would last the perfect amount of time, and both people would orgasm at the same time
Stuff would not break
You would never lose stuff
There’d be no pollution
There’d be plenty of resources, and animals’ habitats would not be destroyed
The population would be the perfect amount, and not grow exponentially to the detriment of the environment (not sure how that would work, since loved ones would not die)
You would not lose your eyesight or hearing, in fact, you would not age, you would always be the perfect age, perfectly healthy, no arthritis or anything like that
You would never be late to work, and everyone would love their job
Batteries would never die
Nail polish would never chip

Is that the kind of answer you’re looking for, Spock? If so, I will write more.

 

[meltzerboy]

What Would You Do If You Were God? This question comes up periodically. Of course the answer is too simple: “NOTHING”. From the pinnacle all roads lead downhill. A perfection cannot be improved upon, no matter what is added to it or taken from it. The only logical thing would be to do nothing.

As such the posited God of Christianty is an illogical and irrational being. Since creating anything will destroy his “lonely perfection”, only an irrational and illogical being would want to do that. And the believers want to “sell” that kind of illogical being as being “perfect”. It does not work.

G-d created the Universe not for His benefit but for ours, as an act of divine love. Judaism also believes He created the Universe partially incomplete so that we may complete it through our own love and moral actions toward others. We do not destroy G-d’s perfection: on the contrary, we, in part, reflect and discover it.

 

[meltzerboy]

If I were God, I would make it so that when a pet died, the owner would die too, so that they wouldn’t have to feel the pain of losing a pet. or else pets would live as long as their owners
I would make everyone have the metabolism they want so that they could eat all the food they want and not get fat
I would make the weather better (mid 70s and sunny in most places, warmer at the beach, colder where appropriate like mountains for people to ski). No natural disasters like hurricanes. No rain, there would just be the perfect amount of water everywhere.
I would not give people acne
No insects especially mosquitos and bed bugs
People would not rape or murder or child abuse or any kind of abuse
No STDs
People TTC would get pregnant. People TTA would not.
Phones would not lose service
Dogs would not shed
They would always have your size when you go clothes shopping
Drugs would not exist or else they would not be addictive or harmful
No mental illness, no physical illness, or mental handicaps or physical handicap
There would always be plenty of parking anywhere you went
There’d be no such thing as “too drunk” and no hangovers, people would just get the perfect amount drunk that they would just have fun but not do stuff they regret
Friends (the TV show) would still be on the air (new episodes)
Would never have to shave - would always have perfectly smooth legs or face or whatever you currently have to shave - and guys could grow perfect beards or mustaches or whatever, if that’s what they want
Heels would not be difficult to walk in or hurt your feet after awhile
Babies would not cry or wake up in the middle of the night
Sex would last the perfect amount of time, and both people would orgasm at the same time
Stuff would not break
You would never lose stuff
There’d be no pollution
There’d be plenty of resources, and animals’ habitats would not be destroyed
The population would be the perfect amount, and not grow exponentially to the detriment of the environment (not sure how that would work, since loved ones would not die)
You would not lose your eyesight or hearing, in fact, you would not age, you would always be the perfect age, perfectly healthy, no arthritis or anything like that
You would never be late to work, and everyone would love their job
Batteries would never die
Nail polish would never chip

Is that the kind of answer you’re looking for, Spock? If so, I will write more.

IOW, Sam, a Heaven on Earth as in the Garden of Eden! On the surface, it sounds good; but evidently, this was not G-d’s plan, nor ours, beginning with Adam and Eve. Human nature itself–including free will–would have to be quite different for your list to be fulfilled; otherwise, we’d mess it up in no time. Besides, we might become bored by such earthly perfection. What goals would we strive for?

 

[Spock]

Is that the kind of answer you’re looking for, Spock? If so, I will write more.

Well, I did not look for any answers, for my part. I merely repeated the question brought up by some believers. But what you wrote is close to what I would do, if I would have to create something. Just like good, decent, loving human parents take care of their offspring until they grow up, I would - as God - make sure that those created ones (humans and others) - would lack nothing to give them a comfortable environment. After all none of those “created ones” desired to be created. To go ahead and “force” someone into life can only be excused if that life is pleasant and comfortable.

 

[Spock]

IOW, Sam, a Heaven on Earth as in the Garden of Eden! On the surface, it sounds good; but evidently, this was not G-d’s plan, nor ours, beginning with Adam and Eve. Human nature itself–including free will–would have to be quite different for your list to be fulfilled; otherwise, we’d mess it up in no time.

Of course it would be different! And much better. Who needs to be frozen half to death to enjoy a nice, warm spring evening? Who needs to be starved close to death to enjoy a pleasant meal? Who needs to be beaten within a hairwidth of his life to prefer peace and love? As for myself I do not live my life “relatively”… I enjoy the good, not because it could be worse, I enjoy it for its own sake.

Besides, we might become bored by such earthly perfection. What goals would we strive for?

Oh brother. What does hunger, disease, pain, misery add to your appreciation of life? Without those experiences, we could STILL discover the beauties of nature, we could dig into the mysteries of mathematics, we could write or enjoy wonderful new musical pieces, read or create excellent fiction… the possibilities are endless. We could play zillions of games, we could train our bodies to be stronger and faster. Only dumb people would get bored without the mayhem and misery. Maybe some people “value” the criminals, for making life “more interesting”, I would not know. I certainly would not miss them.

As usual, I am reminded of the tale of the twelve officers… you happen to bring up the answer of the second one… and my answer is “Yes, I would prefer a world where there is nothing, but love, peace, and roses!”

 

[StarFireKK]

Being “respectful” of Catholics doesn’t necessarily mean you have to agree with their point of view. In fact, you are even free to consider the views Catholics hold as illogical. I’ve always interpreted the forum rules to mean that you can’t swear or post insulting remarks about Catholics (who would want to anyway unless you’re a troll?)

.

Hey, I didn’t report his post and complain to the mods that I thought he should be banned. (Personally, I don’t want anyone banned because I think this forum can be a great resource.) I just posted the rule because I thought it might be prudent. Retrospectively, it probably wasn’t my place to do so.

He is completely free to ignore me.

BTW- The rule states “respectful of the faith of Catholics” not “respectful of Catholics.” It would imply that our faith not just our persons should be shown respect. I am aware respectful doesn’t mean “agreement.” I am also aware that “respectful disagreement” is an art form few have mastered.

I was merely trying to be charitable pointing out the rule. If I have given offense to you or anyone else I apologize.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

Hey, I didn’t report his post and complain to the mods that I thought he should be banned. (Personally, I don’t want anyone banned because I think this forum can be a great resource.) I just posted the rule because I thought it might be prudent. Retrospectively, it probably wasn’t my place to do so.

He is completely free to ignore me.

BTW- The rule states “respectful of the faith of Catholics” not “respectful of Catholics.” It would imply that our faith not just our persons should be shown respect. I am aware respectful doesn’t mean “agreement.” I am also aware that “respectful disagreement” is an art form few have mastered.

I was merely trying to be charitable pointing out the rule. If I have given offense to you or anyone else I apologize.

No worries…no need to apologize . I have been on several different websites, and I can assure you, you’ll find much more abhorrent rhetoric of Catholicism than what Spock has on offer.

 

[Spock]

One of the tenets of Christian theology is that God is not dependent on anything. He is self-sufficient in his own right. He did not and does not need to create anything. So creating something can not “destroy” his perfection nor does it fulfill some kind of loneliness, as to assert such is to contradict a fundamental point in Christian theology.

I am aware all of that. But, let’s analyse the proposition: “God has no need whatsoever, no internal desire; the world cannot offer anything to God”. If that is true, then we have this being, God, who does something without any incentive, who has no reason to do it… in my vocabulary that being is not rational. A fully purposeless action is irrational or simply crazy or insane.

It is commonly held by Catholic theologians that God created Humanity out of his surplus love.

That is another irrational proposition. One cannot “love” what does not exist. And if God had some “surplus” love, which needed an outlet (which would be us), then God DID have a need - to get someone who would be the recipient of this “love”. No matter how we twist it, either God has no need and still engaged in some activity - and then God was irrational, or God did have a need (to create objects for his surplus love) and then God was not fully self-sufficient.

 

[meltzerboy]

Of course it would be different! And much better. Who needs to be frozen half to death to enjoy a nice, warm spring evening? Who needs to be starved close to death to enjoy a pleasant meal? Who needs to be beaten within a hairwidth of his life to prefer peace and love? As for myself I do not live my life “relatively”… I enjoy the good, not because it could be worse, I enjoy it for its own sake.

Oh brother. What does hunger, disease, pain, misery add to your appreciation of life? Without those experiences, we could STILL discover the beauties of nature, we could dig into the mysteries of mathematics, we could write or enjoy wonderful new musical pieces, read or create excellent fiction… the possibilities are endless. We could play zillions of games, we could train our bodies to be stronger and faster. Only dumb people would get bored without the mayhem and misery. Maybe some people “value” the criminals, for making life “more interesting”, I would not know. I certainly would not miss them.

As usual, I am reminded of the tale of the twelve officers… you happen to bring up the answer of the second one… and my answer is “Yes, I would prefer a world where there is nothing, but love, peace, and roses!”

How about work? I suppose you wouldn’t want any challenges, obstacles, or problems. Maybe you wouldn’t even want any work at all; just leisure time to do whatever you wish, a utopia on Earth. Personally, I get bored with too much leisure time, which I rarely have anyhow. I like challenges, obstacles, and problems. I’m not saying a life full of misery is wonderful, but a little misery (distinguishing this from the truly “terrible,” as the great philosopher, Woody Allen, does) provides an opportunity to really appreciate the good and beautiful. Don’t you love a sunny day more after a spell of rain, and a rainy day after a couple of weeks of sun, as well as a cooler day after a heat spell. It’s the George Burns’ philosophy, when he played G-d, so how can it be wrong? I think too much of anything–leisure, work, food, sex, even religion when it takes one away from other responsibilities–may become boring and self-destructive. That’s all I’m saying but I think it makes some sense. And would it be better if we didn’t have the free will to make choices, even when those choices sometimes get us in trouble? Don’t we learn and grow from our mistakes? Do you want everything to be handed to you on a silver platter without any effort, any failure, any loss, any growth? There’s a Twilight Zone about a thief who goes to Heaven–so he thought–and has everything he ever wanted. The problem is, there is no chance for him to be caught robbing a bank or lose in gambling. Without risk, he soon becomes bored and wants out. He discovers, however, he is trapped for eternity, not in heaven but in hell.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

That is another irrational proposition. One cannot “love” what does not exist. And if God had some “surplus” love, which needed an outlet (which would be us), then God DID have a need - to get someone who would be the recipient of this “love”. No matter how we twist it, either God has no need and still engaged in some activity - and then God was irrational, or God did have a need (to create objects for his surplus love) and then God was not fully self-sufficient.

Hmmm, that’s true. I wonder how Catholics will respond to this. Hopefully we will get an answer and not name-calling, insults or just a general sense of evasiveness that shows the paucity of their beliefs.