T
traditionMike
Guest
Im in a debate for a religion class. I am on the side saying that Yahweh and Allah are NOT the same God. How can back my position up? How can i defend it?
- Status
I
IvanKaramozov
Guest
S
StevenFrancis
Guest
I’ve been reading the Quran just lately, and I must admit, I’m a little baffled myself. It refers to most of the same Old Testament events, though with a bit of a different angle. But most striking is that Allah when transmitting the Quran to Mohammed, first adds to and changes the previous testaments already promised to be the unchangeable word of God, (The one eternal and all consuming and existing “I Am”, which Yahweh IS, both really, and etymologically), and moreover, expresses the being of Jesus, (who is an equal aspect along with the aspects of Father, and Holy Spirit in the eternal and consuming “I Am” of Yahweh), as being a special prophet. Allah cannot be the God Yahweh, if Jesus is simply a special prophet. Jesus IS Yahweh, and Jesus according to the Quaran is NOT Allah. It appears impossible for them to be the same entity. I can respect the Allah of Islam. I just can not reconcile the concept of Allah with the Concept of Yahweh. I’ve heard my entire life about how Judaism, Christianity, and Islam share the same God. With Judaism, this is certainly seen. It is the same scripture. The same revelations. The same covenants (until Jesus). But in what I’ve read of the Quran, even where we share events, they seem to be presented a little differently, with a different intent. This is puzzling. The book occurred MUCH later than the Torah/Talmud. Why wouldn’t the books forming the Old Testament just be the same for all three faiths if they shared the same God. Why only two of the Faiths sharing one set of books, and the third another? Is it possible, that even though they involve most, if not all, of the same people that they are of a different God than that of the Judeo/Christian faith?
I know, I know, I’m complicating what is supposed to be a very simple thread. I’m sorry. I’ll see if it can be moved to another area if it needs to be. It just opened up a lot of questions for me once I sat and began typing. My appologies to the OP.
Anyway, please let us know how your debate unfolds. I’m interested in how this is thought of in the Islamic believer? Muhammed, and the transmission of the Quran (570 - 632) is somewhat later than God’s incarnation existence on Earth as the Christ and later still from the Old Testament books. It’s very difficult for me to reconcile. I’m going to have to get my mind around this as I progress deeper into my own Catholic faith, and have more discussion with my brothers and sisters of the Muslim faith.
Peace to all,
Steven
I know, I know, I’m complicating what is supposed to be a very simple thread. I’m sorry. I’ll see if it can be moved to another area if it needs to be. It just opened up a lot of questions for me once I sat and began typing. My appologies to the OP.
Anyway, please let us know how your debate unfolds. I’m interested in how this is thought of in the Islamic believer? Muhammed, and the transmission of the Quran (570 - 632) is somewhat later than God’s incarnation existence on Earth as the Christ and later still from the Old Testament books. It’s very difficult for me to reconcile. I’m going to have to get my mind around this as I progress deeper into my own Catholic faith, and have more discussion with my brothers and sisters of the Muslim faith.
Peace to all,
Steven
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
Allah told Mohammed through an unidentified spirit that Jesus was not crucified or raised Himself from the dead 600 years after the Gospels tell a very different story.
Mohammed said a spirit told him Abraham tried to sacrifice Ishmael, not Isaac after almost 2000 years of Jewish history saying the opposite.
Allah says demons praise the Koran (Sura 72), and Jesus rebukes every demon He encounters.
Jesus tells us God loves us as a Father loves his children. Mohammed says allah is master and we are his slaves. No where in the Quran does it say allah loves his slaves.
Moses said God commands us not to kill each other. Jesus commands us to love one another. Mohammed said allah commands Muslims to fight in his cause. Find out what that Cause is and see if it matches what God in the OT and NT is doing.
They clearly are not the same being speaking the same truth so one must be rejected. Islams illigitimate claim to it being from the same God is centered on the spirit who spoke to Mohammed and his being of the line of Ishmael.
Fact is the spirit never identifies itself in 23 years and Ishamel did not receive Abrahams blessing. All legitimate prophets are Jews and Jesus was a Jew. There is nothing that supports Mohammed as a legitimate prophet so the words of allah also have no support or authority.
C
Claire_from_DE
Guest
For the purpose of the debate, how do you define Yahweh? Is he identified only as the God who revealed Himself to the Jews in the Old Testament? Or by Yahweh do you mean God as Jesus revealed Him?
If you mean the God of the New Testament, it would be easy to prove that is not the same as Allah by focusing on the doctrine of the Trinity. The Catechism of the Catholic Church should give you lots of info on that. Muslims are definite that God is not the Trinity which they consider blasphemy.
You had better first find out how the debate identifies ‘Yahweh’ because it might just mean how the God of the Jews differs from the God of the Muslims.
You should realize that the Jews don’t consider Yahweh to be the Trinity either (although Catholics would say that Yahweh had just not yet revealed this to them until Christ). So, from the Jewish point of view, Yahweh is not the God of the Christians or the God of the Muslims!
If you mean the God of the New Testament, it would be easy to prove that is not the same as Allah by focusing on the doctrine of the Trinity. The Catechism of the Catholic Church should give you lots of info on that. Muslims are definite that God is not the Trinity which they consider blasphemy.
You had better first find out how the debate identifies ‘Yahweh’ because it might just mean how the God of the Jews differs from the God of the Muslims.
You should realize that the Jews don’t consider Yahweh to be the Trinity either (although Catholics would say that Yahweh had just not yet revealed this to them until Christ). So, from the Jewish point of view, Yahweh is not the God of the Christians or the God of the Muslims!
J
jkatpc
Guest
*Lumen Gentium *says we worship the same God:
"In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind… "
Now, how we perceive Him and His rules for us is a different matter. How well we see something depends on which glasses we choose to put on. A blurry image with a poor pair of glasses is a blurry image of the same thing that person would see with a better prescription. The thing observed is still there and unchanged, but is understood (seen) much better with the right pair of specs. I know it’s a limited analogy, as most are.
"In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind… "
Now, how we perceive Him and His rules for us is a different matter. How well we see something depends on which glasses we choose to put on. A blurry image with a poor pair of glasses is a blurry image of the same thing that person would see with a better prescription. The thing observed is still there and unchanged, but is understood (seen) much better with the right pair of specs. I know it’s a limited analogy, as most are.
D
Delta2
Guest
It was not the same God at the beginning of Islam, definitely, but it was converging to Yahweh over in the last centuries, at least with moderated muslims
And your glasses analogy is precisely what I think of Islam
I once said to some muslims friends,
“See how God loves you and gives signs as a Living God always present”
The symbol of islam is a moon, and the moon doesn’t have Light by itself but REFLECTS the true light : the sun
And God is a spirit of Pure Light
S
Sam_777
Guest
After reading what in these links:bigyikes:, I don’t think so…
biblebelievers.org.au/islam.htm
faithfreedom.org/Articles/skm30804.htm
K
kalt
Guest
Same God. Different understanding.
R
ralphinal
Guest
I agree. You must limit your understanding and discussion of Yahweh to God the Father and only to Old Testement (focusing on the Torah). Now, from what I can tell, the difference in understanding seems that as the Jewish people moved farther from Noah, they developed an understanding of Yahweh as more of a Father than a master. AS a Christian, I beleive that Jesus came in the fulness of time. I think that one of the ways the time was right is that the concept of God as Father was accepted by most Jews. Muslims have no understanding of God as Father:it is not one of the 99 names, though some have said it could be the 100th, unknowable one (which we know?).
If you want to ask this question, it is valid: why would Yahweh allow people to develope an understanding of Him as Father only to cancel it with Muhammed? You do not have to mention Jesus in the discussion.
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
I don’t think it says that at all. I think it says the Church acknowledges the claim to which Muslims subscribe but gives it no legitimacy since it is contradictory to what we believe as Catholics.
D
Daniel_Marsh
Guest
God of the Bible has a Son, Allah has three Daughters according to the Satanic Verses.
God of the Bible is a Trinity, Allah is not part of a trinity.
God of the Bible loves sinners, Allah hates sinners.
Note: word for hate in Psalm 5, simply means in hebrew “unwilling to put up with” Hollway Concise Lexicon.
answering-islam.org/Shamoun/god.htm
AUTHOR OF EVIL
The Holy Bible teaches that God cannot be tempted by evil and neither tempts anyone with evil; evil being understood as referring to immorality and sin. James 1:13 (c.f. Psalm 5:4-5; Habakkuk 1:13)
Yet, the Quran teaches that Allah is the author of evil:
Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them. And when they stand up for As-Salat (the prayer), they stand with laziness and to be seen of men, and they do not remember Allah but little. S. 4:142 Hilali-Khan
And (the unbelievers) schemed and planned, and Allah schemed also, and the best of schemers is Allah. S. 3:54
Are they then secure from Allah’s scheme (makra Allahi)? None deemeth himself secure from Allah’s scheme (makra Allahi) save folk that perish. S. 7:99 Pickthall
Remember how the unbelievers schemed against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or to slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They scheme and plot, but the best of schemers is Allah. S. 8:30
And when We make people taste of mercy after an affliction touches them, lo! they devise schemes (makrun) against Our communication. Say: Allah is quicker to scheme (makran); surely Our apostles write down what you plan. S. 10:21
And those before them did indeed scheme (makara), but all scheming (al-makru) is Allah’s; He knows what every soul earns, and the unbelievers shall come to know for whom is the (better) issue of the abode. S. 13:42
So they schemed a scheme: and We schemed a scheme, while they perceived not. S. 27:50
The term for scheme in Arabic is makara which denotes one who is a deceiver, one who is conniving, a schemer. It is always used in a negative sense. Allah is thus seen as the best of deceivers, the premiere schemer and conniving one.
AUTHOR OF HISTORICAL ERRORS
The Quran contains historical errors which implies that Allah is not an Omniscient Being, since an all-knowing Being would be able to accurately recall historical events. Below is a list of just some of the many problems we find in the Quran.
In S. 17:1 we are told that Muhammad was taken to the farthest Mosque, Masjid al-Aqsa. The problem with this is that the Aqsa Mosque had not been erected since Abd al-Malik only built it in AD 691. It cannot be referring to the Temple in Jerusalem since that was destroyed by the armies of the Roman general Titus in AD 70.
S. 18:9-26 alludes to several men and their dog who slept for approximately 309 years only to be awakened in perfect condition.
According to S. 18:83-98, Alexander the Great called Zhul Qarnain, “the Two Horned One,” was a Muslim who traveled till he found the Sun literally setting in a muddy spring. When we keep in mind that the title “the Two Horned One” was a title given to Alexander in pre-Islamic times, the Muslim attempts of trying to deny this fact utterly fails.
According to S. 4:157 the unbelieving Jews boasted by saying, “We killed the Messiah Jesus the son of Mary, the apostle of Allah.” The only problem with this is that the unbelieving Jews never admitted that Jesus was Messiah and would not have killed him if they had believed that he was their long-awaited Messianic Deliverer. The unbelieving Jews had Jesus killed because they believed he was a false Messiah:
“And they began to accuse him, saying, ‘We have found this man subverting our nation. He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar and CLAIMS to be Christ a king.’” Luke 23:2 NIV
Christians are accused of worshiping Mary and Jesus as two gods apart from the true God:
And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, Worship me and my mother … " S. 5:116
Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle- many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His Signs clear to them … S. 5:75
In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His Will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all - every one that is on the earth…” S. 5:17
This presumes that since Mary ate food and could be destroyed by Allah she could not possibly be divine. This gives the misleading impression that Christians believe that she is more than simply human.
In fact, the Quran proceeds to accuse Christians of worshiping three gods:
“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is the third of three (inallaaha thaalithu thalaatha)” S. 5:73
“… so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not three (thalaatha): desist: It will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah …” S. 4:171
Mary the Mother of Jesus is confused with Mary the sister of Aaron and Moses, the daughter of Amram:
Behold! The wife of Imran (i.e. Amram) said, “O my Lord! I do dedicate unto thee what is in my womb”… When she was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child … I have named her Mary… " S. 3:35, 36
“And Mary the daughter of Imran, who guarded her chastity…” S. 66:12.
“… They said: O Mary! Truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste.” S. 19:27-28
“Then Mary (Heb. Mariam), the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took the timbrel in her hand …” Exodus 15:20
“The name of Amram’s wife was Jochebed, the daughter of Levi, who was born to Levi in Egypt; and to Amram she bore Aaron and Moses and their sister Miriam.” Numbers 27:59
God of the Bible is a Trinity, Allah is not part of a trinity.
God of the Bible loves sinners, Allah hates sinners.
Note: word for hate in Psalm 5, simply means in hebrew “unwilling to put up with” Hollway Concise Lexicon.
answering-islam.org/Shamoun/god.htm
AUTHOR OF EVIL
The Holy Bible teaches that God cannot be tempted by evil and neither tempts anyone with evil; evil being understood as referring to immorality and sin. James 1:13 (c.f. Psalm 5:4-5; Habakkuk 1:13)
Yet, the Quran teaches that Allah is the author of evil:
Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them. And when they stand up for As-Salat (the prayer), they stand with laziness and to be seen of men, and they do not remember Allah but little. S. 4:142 Hilali-Khan
And (the unbelievers) schemed and planned, and Allah schemed also, and the best of schemers is Allah. S. 3:54
Are they then secure from Allah’s scheme (makra Allahi)? None deemeth himself secure from Allah’s scheme (makra Allahi) save folk that perish. S. 7:99 Pickthall
Remember how the unbelievers schemed against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or to slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They scheme and plot, but the best of schemers is Allah. S. 8:30
And when We make people taste of mercy after an affliction touches them, lo! they devise schemes (makrun) against Our communication. Say: Allah is quicker to scheme (makran); surely Our apostles write down what you plan. S. 10:21
And those before them did indeed scheme (makara), but all scheming (al-makru) is Allah’s; He knows what every soul earns, and the unbelievers shall come to know for whom is the (better) issue of the abode. S. 13:42
So they schemed a scheme: and We schemed a scheme, while they perceived not. S. 27:50
The term for scheme in Arabic is makara which denotes one who is a deceiver, one who is conniving, a schemer. It is always used in a negative sense. Allah is thus seen as the best of deceivers, the premiere schemer and conniving one.
AUTHOR OF HISTORICAL ERRORS
The Quran contains historical errors which implies that Allah is not an Omniscient Being, since an all-knowing Being would be able to accurately recall historical events. Below is a list of just some of the many problems we find in the Quran.
In S. 17:1 we are told that Muhammad was taken to the farthest Mosque, Masjid al-Aqsa. The problem with this is that the Aqsa Mosque had not been erected since Abd al-Malik only built it in AD 691. It cannot be referring to the Temple in Jerusalem since that was destroyed by the armies of the Roman general Titus in AD 70.
S. 18:9-26 alludes to several men and their dog who slept for approximately 309 years only to be awakened in perfect condition.
According to S. 18:83-98, Alexander the Great called Zhul Qarnain, “the Two Horned One,” was a Muslim who traveled till he found the Sun literally setting in a muddy spring. When we keep in mind that the title “the Two Horned One” was a title given to Alexander in pre-Islamic times, the Muslim attempts of trying to deny this fact utterly fails.
According to S. 4:157 the unbelieving Jews boasted by saying, “We killed the Messiah Jesus the son of Mary, the apostle of Allah.” The only problem with this is that the unbelieving Jews never admitted that Jesus was Messiah and would not have killed him if they had believed that he was their long-awaited Messianic Deliverer. The unbelieving Jews had Jesus killed because they believed he was a false Messiah:
“And they began to accuse him, saying, ‘We have found this man subverting our nation. He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar and CLAIMS to be Christ a king.’” Luke 23:2 NIV
Christians are accused of worshiping Mary and Jesus as two gods apart from the true God:
And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, Worship me and my mother … " S. 5:116
Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle- many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His Signs clear to them … S. 5:75
In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His Will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all - every one that is on the earth…” S. 5:17
This presumes that since Mary ate food and could be destroyed by Allah she could not possibly be divine. This gives the misleading impression that Christians believe that she is more than simply human.
In fact, the Quran proceeds to accuse Christians of worshiping three gods:
“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is the third of three (inallaaha thaalithu thalaatha)” S. 5:73
“… so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not three (thalaatha): desist: It will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah …” S. 4:171
Mary the Mother of Jesus is confused with Mary the sister of Aaron and Moses, the daughter of Amram:
Behold! The wife of Imran (i.e. Amram) said, “O my Lord! I do dedicate unto thee what is in my womb”… When she was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child … I have named her Mary… " S. 3:35, 36
“And Mary the daughter of Imran, who guarded her chastity…” S. 66:12.
“… They said: O Mary! Truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste.” S. 19:27-28
“Then Mary (Heb. Mariam), the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took the timbrel in her hand …” Exodus 15:20
“The name of Amram’s wife was Jochebed, the daughter of Levi, who was born to Levi in Egypt; and to Amram she bore Aaron and Moses and their sister Miriam.” Numbers 27:59
D
Daniel_Marsh
Guest
AUTHOR OF CARNAL PLEASURES
The Quranic paradise is totally different from the biblical portrait of heaven. In Allah’s paradise, we find sexual and carnal pleasures for believers to engage in throughout eternity:
But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portions is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow, every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: “Why, this is what we were fed with before,” for they are giving things in similitude; And they have therein damsels (Arabic - Houris ) pure (and holy); and they abide therein (forever)." S. 2:25
But to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath, their eternal home. Therein they have damsels pure and holy; We shall admit them to shades, cool and ever deepening. S. 4:57
Of a rare creation have We created the Houris, and We have made them ever virgins, dear to their spouses, of equal age with them for the people of the right hand. S. 56:35-38
But for those who fear Allah is a blissful abode, enclosed gardens and vineyards, and damsels with swelling breasts (Arabic - Kawa’eb), their peers in age, and a full cup. S. 78:31-34 (Arberry and Rodwell translate this part correctly, see also this overview page)
The orthodox Islamic understanding of these references are that Muslim men shall have a host of swelling breasted maidens to engage in sex with, who return to their virginal state after intercourse.
The Quranic paradise is totally different from the biblical portrait of heaven. In Allah’s paradise, we find sexual and carnal pleasures for believers to engage in throughout eternity:
But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portions is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow, every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: “Why, this is what we were fed with before,” for they are giving things in similitude; And they have therein damsels (Arabic - Houris ) pure (and holy); and they abide therein (forever)." S. 2:25
But to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath, their eternal home. Therein they have damsels pure and holy; We shall admit them to shades, cool and ever deepening. S. 4:57
Of a rare creation have We created the Houris, and We have made them ever virgins, dear to their spouses, of equal age with them for the people of the right hand. S. 56:35-38
But for those who fear Allah is a blissful abode, enclosed gardens and vineyards, and damsels with swelling breasts (Arabic - Kawa’eb), their peers in age, and a full cup. S. 78:31-34 (Arberry and Rodwell translate this part correctly, see also this overview page)
The orthodox Islamic understanding of these references are that Muslim men shall have a host of swelling breasted maidens to engage in sex with, who return to their virginal state after intercourse.
A
AgnosTheist
Guest
Socially he is on the losing side. Because there are more people who prefer to see both Gods to be one and the same. Like you.
Logically he is on the winning side. Because its as simple as stating the fact that Allah contradicts Yahweh. The two cant be the same dude.
D
Delta2
Guest
Because of this paradise full of lust, I was banned for 1 month for offending islam with lies
D
Daniel_Marsh
Guest
answering-islam.org/Shamoun/god.htm
there is a lot more at the link.
Also, you can contrast Allah with Baal worthip in the OT. Every claim made about Allah being creator god was made in Ancient Near Eastern Literature about Baal.
answering-islam.org.uk/Responses/Abualrub/allahs_identity.htm
google.com/search?hl=en&q=Allah+is+not+the+God+of+the+Bible
google.com/search?hl=en&q=Christian+God+is+not+Allah
Muslims themselves will admit, that they believe,
there is a lot more at the link.
Also, you can contrast Allah with Baal worthip in the OT. Every claim made about Allah being creator god was made in Ancient Near Eastern Literature about Baal.
erguncaner.com/site/?p=160
answering-islam.org.uk/Responses/Abualrub/allahs_identity.htm
google.com/search?hl=en&q=Allah+is+not+the+God+of+the+Bible
google.com/search?hl=en&q=Christian+God+is+not+Allah
Muslims themselves will admit, that they believe,
answering-christianity.com/blessed_jesus.htm
D
Daniel_Marsh
Guest
At the end of the last page it was asked,
Who wants to live in a muslim nation?
constrast, Muslim law with American Law or with Christian ethics
Stealing: cutting of hand for taking food to stay alive
google.com/search?hl=en&q=Muslim+quotes+Jesus+is+not+Allah
Who wants to live in a muslim nation?
constrast, Muslim law with American Law or with Christian ethics
Stealing: cutting of hand for taking food to stay alive
google.com/search?hl=en&q=Muslim+quotes+Jesus+is+not+Allah
J
jkatpc
Guest
But, it does. Here’s the link:
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
It’s in paragraph 17.
The sentence acknowledges the claim that they profess a faith from Abraham. That part, though is a subordinate clause that can be removed without affecting the meaning of the sentence. So, if you take that clause out, you get “But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.”
D
Daniel_Marsh
Guest
studytoanswer.net/myths_ch3.html
The Catechism of the Catholic Church
Use your browser’s BACK button to return to the main Catechism page.
PART 1, SECTION 2 2, CHAPTER 3 3, ARTICLE 9, PARAGRAPH 3, SUBSECTION 3, HEADING 4
The Church and non-Christians
839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.” 325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, 326 “the first to hear the Word of God.” 327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”, 328 “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.” 329
840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” 330
842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . . 331
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in **other religions **that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.” 332
844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair. 333
845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood. 334
kofc.org/publications/cis/catechism/getsection.cfm?partnum=1&SecNum=2&ChapNum=3&articlenum=9&ParSecNum=3&subSecNum=3&headernum=4&ParNum=841&ParType=a
The Catechism of the Catholic Church
Use your browser’s BACK button to return to the main Catechism page.
PART 1, SECTION 2 2, CHAPTER 3 3, ARTICLE 9, PARAGRAPH 3, SUBSECTION 3, HEADING 4
The Church and non-Christians
839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.” 325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, 326 “the first to hear the Word of God.” 327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”, 328 “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.” 329
840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” 330
842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . . 331
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in **other religions **that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.” 332
844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair. 333
845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood. 334
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