Yahweh or no Yahweh?

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So I bought a new bible. The New Jerusalem Bible, saints devotional edition. I’m putting away my New International Version. My question is that they use the term Yahweh in place of Lord as in Gn 2:8 Yahweh God planted a garden in Eden, which is in the east, and there he put the man he had fashioned.

But most bibles I’ve ever read have said …Then the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and he placed there the man whom he had formed. [NAB]

I understand that Yahweh is the English translation of God’s name from Hebrew. But it’s all over the old testament, and I’m wondering why don’t other bibles translate it like this? (I know a few use Jehovah (as in the American Standard), I did a quick comparison use the list of on-line bibles. I looked on Wikipedia and they just say most Jews say their Lord God. Because of the holiness of the name. Which means that it’s out of tradition, but why change it? I’ve than looked in the Catholic encyclopedia and didn’t really get my answer either. So anything would be helpful. Other than the Yahweh word I like the NJB. It’s easy to read.

Quick Edit- They don’t always use Yahweh, sometimes they just say God too as in Gn1

~Jerry
 
jamannor said:
So I bought a new bible. The New Jerusalem Bible, saints devotional edition. I’m putting away my New International Version. My question is that they use the term Yahweh in place of Lord as in Gn 2:8 Yahweh God planted a garden in Eden, which is in the east, and there he put the man he had fashioned.

But most bibles I’ve ever read have said …Then the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and he placed there the man whom he had formed. [NAB]

I understand that Yahweh is the English translation of God’s name from Hebrew. But it’s all over the old testament, and I’m wondering why don’t other bibles translate it like this? (I know a few use Jehovah (as in the American Standard), I did a quick comparison use the list of on-line bibles. I looked on Wikipedia and they just say most Jews say their Lord God. Because of the holiness of the name. Which means that it’s out of tradition, but why change it? I’ve than looked in the Catholic encyclopedia and didn’t really get my answer either. So anything would be helpful. Other than the Yahweh word I like the NJB. It’s easy to read.

Quick Edit- They don’t always use Yahweh, sometimes they just say God too as in Gn1

~Jerry
Click to expand...
The JB and NJB use Yahweh where YHWH appears in the Hebrew and God where the Hebrew as El or Elohim. The custom of using LORD in all caps sprung from an ancient custom in which the pronunciation of the Divine Name fell into disuse due to its sacredness. To avoid it, the Jews started saying Adonai instead of the Divine Name. This has been reflected in ancient translations such as the Septuagint, where it uses Kurios (Lord) in place of YHWH. The custom has spread to other languages.

Where adonai appears in the Hebrew, most translations use “Lord”, not all caps.
 
Hi Jammanor,

As said above, the Jews wrote"Yahweh", but pronounced “Adonai” (Lord). The Septuagint (Greek translation done by Egyptians Jews) therefore translated “Kurios” (Lord). The Latin followed suit with “Dominus”. and our early translations (done from the Latin) used “Lord”.

Modern translators choose to give us the Bible as close as possible to the way the original writers and readers understood it. Thus, in Genesis, “wind of God” or “breath of God” is preferred to “spirit of God”,which is an interpretation based on subsequent wriltings and theology. The use of “Yahweh” belongs to that thinking. You will note that the liturgical readings all use “Lord”,

Verbum
 
jamannor said:
So I bought a new bible. The New Jerusalem Bible, saints devotional edition. I’m putting away my New International Version. My question is that they use the term Yahweh in place of Lord as in Gn 2:8 Yahweh God planted a garden in Eden, which is in the east, and there he put the man he had fashioned.

But most bibles I’ve ever read have said …Then the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and he placed there the man whom he had formed. [NAB]

I understand that Yahweh is the English translation of God’s name from Hebrew. But it’s all over the old testament, and I’m wondering why don’t other bibles translate it like this? (I know a few use Jehovah (as in the American Standard), I did a quick comparison use the list of on-line bibles. I looked on Wikipedia and they just say most Jews say their Lord God. Because of the holiness of the name. Which means that it’s out of tradition, but why change it? I’ve than looked in the Catholic encyclopedia and didn’t really get my answer either. So anything would be helpful. Other than the Yahweh word I like the NJB. It’s easy to read.

Quick Edit- They don’t always use Yahweh, sometimes they just say God too as in Gn1

~Jerry
Click to expand...
The following is from the Preface to the Revised Standard Version; it should answer your question. For the record - I like that the NJB uses Yahweh.

A major departure from the practice of the American Standard Version is the rendering of the Divine Name, the “Tetragrammaton.” The American Standard Version used the term “Jehovah”; the King James Version had employed this in four places, but everywhere else, except in three cases where it was employed as part of a proper name, used the English word Lord (or in certain cases God) printed in capitals. The present revision returns to the procedure of the King James Version, which follows the precedent of the ancient Greek and Latin translators and the long established practice in the reading of the Hebrew scriptures in the synagogue. While it is almost if not quite certain that the Name was originally pronounced “Yahweh,” this pronunciation was not indicated when the Masoretes added vowel signs to the consonantal Hebrew text. To the four consonants YHWH of the Name, which had come to be regarded as too sacred to be pronounced, they attached vowel signs indicating that in its place should be read the Hebrew word Adonai meaning “Lord” (or Elohim meaning “God”). The ancient Greek translators substituted the work Kyrios (Lord) for the Name. The Vulgate likewise used the Latin word Dominus. The form “Jehovah” is of late medieval origin; it is a combination of the consonants of the Divine Name and the vowels attached to it by the Masoretes but belonging to an entirely different word. The sound of Y is represented by J and the sound of W by V, as in Latin. For two reasons the Committee has returned to the more familiar usage of the King James Version: (1) the word “Jehovah” does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew; and (2) the use of any proper name for the one and only God, as though there were other gods from whom He had to be distinguished, was discontinued in Judaism before the Christian era and is entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church.
 
My only comment would be,
WHO ARE the translators of the Revised Standard Version
to have the gall to declare that the use of the Divine Name (Yahweh) is, as they put it,
“entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian church” ???

If God originally inspired the Old Testament writers to write,
YHWH, then who are the RSV translators to make an arrogant and sacrilegious statement like that??

Long live YAHWEH !!!
 
My NAB Catholic Study Bible talks about 4 sources for the Pentateuch which use different names for God - one of appropriately called Yahwist.
 
That’s the documentary hypothesis, as it is called.
J, E, P, and D.

A lot of modern scholars buy it. Personally, I don’t.
 
Jaypeeto3 said:
My only comment would be,
WHO ARE the translators of the Revised Standard Version
to have the gall to declare that the use of the Divine Name (Yahweh) is, as they put it,
“entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian church” ???

If God originally inspired the Old Testament writers to write,
YHWH, then who are the RSV translators to make an arrogant and sacrilegious statement like that??

Long live YAHWEH !!!
Click to expand...
I kinda see their point, although I don’t quite buy it. The use of Yahweh or LORD is fine for me.
 
Jaypeeto3 said:
My only comment would be,
WHO ARE the translators of the Revised Standard Version
to have the gall to declare that the use of the Divine Name (Yahweh) is, as they put it,
“entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian church” ???

If God originally inspired the Old Testament writers to write,
YHWH, then who are the RSV translators to make an arrogant and sacrilegious statement like that??

Long live YAHWEH !!!
Click to expand...
You are a Catholic, so you should know better than this. There is such a thing as development of doctrine, you know!

Edwin
 
Edwin, of COURSE I am a Catholic, and OF COURSE I believe in development of DOCTRINE. But this really has nothing to do with any development of doctrine. This is a hubristic statement by a translation committee that the sacred, God-given Old Testament name of God is INAPPROPRIATE. Good Lord, it is NOT.
We use it when we say Hallelu-YAH. We are thereby saying
Praise YAHweh !!

This is not a matter of legitimate doctrinal development, but a calculated decision by a bunch of protestant translators to remove the name Yahweh from it’s rightful place in the Old Testament because THEY deem it “inappropriate” and to follow a man-made Jewish tradition to obscure the divine Name.

There is no need for such man-made tradition.
The Lord Yahweh, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,
inspired the OT writers to write down his name, YHWH,
over 6,000 times in the Old Testament.
It is his sacred name and a glory to him.
It means I AM WHO AM.
There is NOTHING “inappropriate” about using it in the Old Testament.

God bless,
Jaypeeto3
 
I didn’t think halleluia had anything to do with Yahweh (or Allah either) - I thought it meant “let there be praise!” (which means it is often misused as a term of praise)
Bibles often have notes about the substitution of God’s titles, so it is perfectly possible to know where the text means Yahweh and where it doesn’t
 
jack_hawkins said:
I didn’t think halleluia had anything with Yahweh (or Allah either) - I thought it meant “let there be praise!” (which means it is often misused as a term of praise)
Click to expand...
No, it means “praise Yah!.” Jaypeeto is right. My Hebrew grammar is rusty, but I think “hallelu” is second person plural imperative.

Jaypeeto, the decision was not unique to the RSV committee. It’s standard Christian usage, and it’s grounded in orthodox Christian theology–such as that of St. Thomas. I have never heard it stated quite so baldly, and I certainly don’t think there’s some iron-bound law that we can’t use any form of the Name (as you point out with the “hallelujah” example), but I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand. The point that our God is not one member of a class is a valid one. That was my point about development of doctrine.

Edwin
 
Jaypeeto3 said:
My only comment would be,
WHO ARE the translators of the Revised Standard Version
to have the gall to declare that the use of the Divine Name (Yahweh) is, as they put it,
“entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian church” ???

If God originally inspired the Old Testament writers to write,
YHWH, then who are the RSV translators to make an arrogant and sacrilegious statement like that??

Long live YAHWEH !!!
Click to expand...
The Douay-Rheims doesn’t use “Yahweh” for the Name either. Do you have a problem with those translators?
 
The Name of God which is represented in Hebrew Bibles as the consonants YHWH is not exactly the same as the word yahweh.

It is a form of the verb “I am/I will be/I caused to be” - - but not in the first person (which is 'HYH as seen in Exodus 3:14).

The Jews took seriously the commandments to hallow God’s name, so they didn’t speak it. When vowel marks were added to the written Hebrew Scriptures between 400 and 600 AD, the marks added to the Holy name were the vowels for adonai (Lord) or the vowels for elohim (God), depending on which euphemism the rabbis thought would be best read aloud in the synagogue.

The vowel marks (they are dots and dashes under and over the letters, not letters themselves) are NOT considered part of the Holy Name. So to make up a name (like Yahweh), by using the letters of the Name (YHWH) and the vowels of adonai, is really adding something to the text that was NOT there originally. Adding something to the Holy name is not hallowing it.

What was the pronunciation of the word before the vowel marks were added? We don’t know. Probably something like yahweh, since yah is very common, as previously mentioned, in words like hallelu-yah and many, many proper Hebrew names. But Hebrew had ceased to be a spoken language some time before Christianity. It was a liturgical language, used in prayer and scripture in Jesus’ day, I believe.

I’d like to know what the Greek of the NT says – how does Jesus speak of God? In my Bibles he speaks of God as Lord and teaches us to pray to him as Father and to hallow His name.

Is that an indication of how he wanted us to refer to God?

Or is that just the translation?
 
The Douay-Rheims doesn’t use “Yahweh” for the Name either. Do you have a problem with those translators?

No, I don’t have a problem with them. The Douay was translated from the Old Latin Vulgate which used Kyrios instead of the Tetragrammaton in the Old Testament. The RSV committee used the Masoretic text of the OT which had YHWH 6,000 times in it.
Plus, the RSV committee dared to declare that the use of God’s own self-given name was “inappropriate.” I’ve never read where the Douay translators made a smarty-pants remark like that.
 
I have the pocket version of the New Jerusalem Bible and it also has the Divine Name in the Old Testament included instead of ‘LORD’. When I read from this bible by myself, I ‘say’ Lord instead of Yahweh because of it is Sacred and also I heard that the Jewish people at the time of Christ and before were only allowed to say the name once a year. And I think that was just the High Priest.
 
Jaypeeto3 said:
The Douay-Rheims doesn’t use “Yahweh” for the Name either. Do you have a problem with those translators?

No, I don’t have a problem with them. The Douay was translated from the Old Latin Vulgate which used Kyrios instead of the Tetragrammaton in the Old Testament. The RSV committee used the Masoretic text of the OT which had YHWH 6,000 times in it.
Plus, the RSV committee dared to declare that the use of God’s own self-given name was “inappropriate.” I’ve never read where the Douay translators made a smarty-pants remark like that.
Click to expand...
Don’t get me wrong: I like the use of Yahweh in my NJB. But you can’t fault the RSV translators, either.

See what Liturgiam Authenticam had to say re use of the tetragrammaton:

"41. The effort should be made to ensure that the translations be conformed to that understanding of biblical passages which has been handed down by liturgical use and by the tradition of the Fathers of the Church, especially as regards very important texts such as the Psalms and the readings used for the principal celebrations of the liturgical year; in these cases the greatest care is to be taken so that the translation express the traditional Christological, typological and spiritual sense, and manifest the unity and the inter-relatedness of the two Testaments.

For this reason:
…
c) in accordance with immemorial tradition, which indeed is already evident in the … “Septuagint” version, the name of almighty God expressed by the Hebrew tetragrammaton (YHWH) and rendered in Latin by the word Dominus, is to be rendered into any given vernacular by a word equivalent in meaning."
 
Manfred said:
Don’t get me wrong: I like the use of Yahweh in my NJB. But you can’t fault the RSV translators, either.

See what Liturgiam Authenticam had to say re use of the tetragrammaton:

"41. The effort should be made to ensure that the translations be conformed to that understanding of biblical passages which has been handed down by liturgical use and by the tradition of the Fathers of the Church, especially as regards very important texts such as the Psalms and the readings used for the principal celebrations of the liturgical year; in these cases the greatest care is to be taken so that the translation express the traditional Christological, typological and spiritual sense, and manifest the unity and the inter-relatedness of the two Testaments.

For this reason:
…
c) in accordance with immemorial tradition, which indeed is already evident in the … “Septuagint” version, the name of almighty God expressed by the Hebrew tetragrammaton (YHWH) and rendered in Latin by the word Dominus, is to be rendered into any given vernacular by a word equivalent in meaning."
Click to expand...
I think even the JB lectionaries use LORD (I can’t say for sure; we use the NAB lectionary here. However, I’ve seen it read during Papal Masses, and they use LORD).
 
porthos11 said:
I think even the JB lectionaries use LORD (I can’t say for sure; we use the NAB lectionary here. However, I’ve seen it read during Papal Masses, and they use LORD).
Click to expand...
Right you are, porthos! I once perused my friend’s Missal with readings from the JB instead of the NAB, and “LORD” was used in the readings where “Yahweh” was in the JB itself.

The EWTN Daily Mass, when it was allowed to use the JB lectionary, also had “LORD”.
 
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