Yea or Nay: Asking For A Daughter's Hand In Marriage

  • Thread starter Thread starter deb1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I asked both my FIL and my MIL for their daughter’s hand. She was 30 and I was 27. I’ve taught my sons to do the same.
 
My parents are divorced…my dad decided to not be as involved in my life after that happened…so when my current fiance decided to ask me to marry him, he contacted my mother without me even knowing to let her in on his plans. I’m not sure of the conversation on whether he asked her permission or blessing but she approved regardless. I thought that was very endearing on his part that he cared enough about my close relationship with my mother to let her in on the secret.

so… hopefully I’m not repeating but I don’t think it should be the father all the time. If the parents are together then they BOTH should be consulted. The daughter isn’t the father’s property but the child of both parents and raised by both so both should be involved. If they are divorced both can be consulted or just one depending on which is closest.

If someone doesn’t want to follow this custom then I think that’s fine too, no big deal.

I’m also rebelling against tradition by having my mom walk me down the aisle. My dad will be invited and will be there but my mother and I are closest. And I will NOT be wearing a veil that covers my face either…another property type tradition…but let me stop before I get going lol
 
Asillia said:
How about you speak to me in a straightforward fashion, instead of a little jab? Either you know I mean well, or you think I don’t. Give me some reasons and a well thought out argument, not a snippy remark.

And if it IS a slap in the face (not the intent, and I don’t think I was very brash), well, I think sometimes we need one. Just because you don’t want it to be misogyny doesn’t make it not so. Despite the warmest intentions of some, these are attitudes that do hurt women. Maybe not even the particular woman the actions are towards, but I do think it colors how we look and treat the gender as a whole.

I am sorry if you think I am calling you a misogynist, which would be very offensive. But in my mind, there is a distinction between misogyny and a person who is a misogynist. I don’t think everybody who is guilty of something that has an element of misogyny in it is a misogynist. I think we all are guilty of these on some levels, including myself and other women. Given our society, I think it’s hard NOT to be misogynistic in some way (or anti humanity in general, really).

As it turns out I was actually about to reply that I thought your response was very beautiful and a lovely attitude to have towards marriage, sacrifice, etc.

Let me state again that I am not against the idea of a man talking to his intended’s parents as a guesture of respect, honor, getting to know the family, showing your humility, wanting to be a part of the family, etc…especially if it is something meaningful to the girl. It would have been sweet if my fiance could have done so, but we live in a different state. The major thing I am against is the idea that a woman has a different status than a man - be it lesser OR greater - or that one deserves more honor than the other. This does NOT mean I think we should all be the same, or that each gender does not have a predisposition to strengths and weaknesses that we can teach each other.
Click to expand...
The thing is MW may very well open the door for me, I’ve had many males open the door for me. I’ve open the door for them. It usually is just a nice polite gesture. To that point I wouldn’t look a gift horse in the mouth, if someone wants to be polite, I say good. I’ve scene plenty of impoliteness, to make me want to avoid trying to tell someone to stop being polite.

Very often I say, it’s not always about the one who is given, but can be about the giver. Males tend not to have the interpersonal cares that females have. Males are more likely to be far more objective, and objectify people. The open of doors will tend to in one way temper some of that competitiveness. Even if you are weaker than MW that doesn’t mean you are fragile, much less inferior. Shoot pregnancy and childbirth will shatter that. If you want to rough it that too is fine.

I seriously doubt that MW is doing it cause he wants to make sure you keep in your place. He thinks he is being considerate, but from what you say he is doing it out of a subtle hatred of women. I will say it is a slap in the face, because it says to me, one far from being his intent of being considerate, its done out of a subtle hatred; something I’m sure MW would probably not want to do. Second MW is stupid that he doesn’t see its true meaning.

Now I would assume maybe some peoples intention is misogyny. In the end, I’ll say it will be far better to discern it further from the part of a gesture that can be ambiguous. No need to throw the baby out with the bath water, and call the baby dirty bath water in the process. I’m sure if you try you can call out misogyny in a more proper place. Granted I may think you may find more actual ambivalence on the part of men, cause I doubt they really care one way or the other. On the other hand, if you just want to be treated like males, then chances are you are more likely to encourage men to sleep with women and just leave. Better than to be considerate, and told your a misogynist.

I’ll contend that men and women have a different status, but not one that is inferior or superior, but on equal, but complementary footing. Men and women in general are have many similarities but still are different people. You’ll get in trouble if you think they are the same people, just with different body parts. One group may need to be tempered in one way. Not because it is bad, but it is good, yet it must be in check.
 
Yea! My fiancee asked my father’s permission 3 times before he gave it. Once when I was 18, then again at about 20, and third time’s a charm as we are now engaged. I didn’t know about the previous times until he recently told me, but I respect him for following my father’s advise. What’s more, he asked my mother’s permission too! It wasn’t a posession or chattle type of thing, it’s well, my dad was the man in my life and he’s passing the responsibility sort of. Anyway, I vote Yea!
 
In both my cultures (Spanish-Italian, and Jewish), it is traditional for the man to ask the father for his daughter’s hand in marriage.

My husband did this, even though he is not from our culture, ethnically. But he is from a very traditional background otherwise, and I would not have it any other way!

In fact if my father had not approved of my husband, I would not have chosen to marry him.
 
I have a feeling that we’d all be better off if we returned to the practices of the past.
 
brotherhrolf said:
I have a feeling that we’d all be better off if we returned to the practices of the past.
Click to expand...
It sorta depends. What is important is the meaning of the practices, if the practices are just hollow then it really doesn’t matter. It might also be noted that its no guarantee of a silver bullet.

It is a good thing if it can help bond the in-laws together with the to be spouse. It can be a good thing, if it helps the to be spouse to understand the other better. It can be a good thing, if it helps the to be spouse to get a more palpable feeling he is going to be married, and must transition to what that means. If the thing is just a check mark on the path to being married, it is rather useless.

On the other matter the whole misogyny thing, part of the problem is it is a good thing to avoid the hatred and disdain of the opposite sex, and the other side of the pendulum the complete ambivilance. Even though there will always be those problems, the chances are ambivilance will be a much larger problem, since its easier to avoid the abuse due to hate. If you try to paint misogyny with too broad of a brush, chances are your going to start frustrating people who would perfer to care, and the reaction will be not caring. Unfortunatly if women want to be treated by men just like men, you run into a problem that women are not men, and your going to be making new problems. One must be very discerning when you call it out.
 
NAY! It’s sexist nonsense. The sin of men lording it over women as a result of the Fall. Just like the sexist tradition of fathers walking down the aisle to “give away” their daughters. Neither of these silly traditions has anything to do with Catholicism.

Show respect for your parents and your future in-laws, certainly. Perhaps discuss with your parents whether you should marry your intended, and ask for your and your fiance(e)‘s parents’ BLESSING on your future marriage. If they like the idea, great! If they don’t like it, tough! It’s YOUR and your fiance(e)'s decision to get married, nobaody else’s.
 
Petergee said:
NAY! It’s sexist nonsense. The sin of men lording it over women as a result of the Fall. Just like the sexist tradition of fathers walking down the aisle to “give away” their daughters. Neither of these silly traditions has anything to do with Catholicism.

Show respect for your parents and your future in-laws, certainly. Perhaps discuss with your parents whether you should marry your intended, and ask for your and your fiance(e)‘s parents’ BLESSING on your future marriage. If they like the idea, great! If they don’t like it, tough! It’s YOUR and your fiance(e)'s decision to get married, nobaody else’s.
Click to expand...
I agree with you–I have seen not only in this forum, but in ‘real’ life as well, people take customs that are secular, for lack of a better word, (basically just life long traditions) and try to put a Christian spin on them. Not just with this. I don’t want to derail the thread, so we’ll leave it for another time, the laundry list of things that I’m speaking of. lol I think it would be a very respectful thing for a man to do for our dd, but it doesn’t make one less of a Christian, if he doesn’t do this.
 
Petergee said:
NAY! It’s sexist nonsense. The sin of men lording it over women as a result of the Fall. Just like the sexist tradition of fathers walking down the aisle to “give away” their daughters. Neither of these silly traditions has anything to do with Catholicism.
Click to expand...
If you assert that, I think your being rather presumptuous.
 
jman507 said:
If you assert that, I think your being rather presumptuous.
Click to expand...
While I don’t believe it’s sexist, it not a Catholic thing–many religions follow the practice–Islam and Judaism follow the same tradition, so it’s not Catholic. Many Catholics subscribe to the tradition, but it’s not exclusively something our faith originated.
 
whatevergirl said:
While I don’t believe it’s sexist, it not a Catholic thing–many religions follow the practice–Islam and Judaism follow the same tradition, so it’s not Catholic. Many Catholics subscribe to the tradition, but it’s not exclusively something our faith originated.
Click to expand...
Certainly the Marriage Rite doesn’t envision the father walking his daughter down the aisle and ‘giving her away’. In other faiths the question is asked “Who gives this woman in marriage?” Such a question doesn’t come up in the Catholic Rite.
 
whatevergirl said:
While I don’t believe it’s sexist, it not a Catholic thing–many religions follow the practice–Islam and Judaism follow the same tradition, so it’s not Catholic. Many Catholics subscribe to the tradition, but it’s not exclusively something our faith originated.
Click to expand...
That’s fine, its the point of calling it sexist. In the end, what matters more in the tradition is what it subjectively means to the people involved. Now if you take something like a sacrament, the Church has well established it objective terms, even if that also functions in conjunction with how a person subjectively thinks of it. Meaning a person can know what confession does, but it will also take on a subjective feeling of say renewal. That isn’t really needed, but it assist the objective nicely.

It is difficult to put down what it means in certain terms, because it is more a matter of what it means to each person. I wouldn’t call it a silly tradition, because that is determined by the person. I don’t see it as anyway being disordered in itself. Due to its subjective nature, what is going to matter is the intent the person ascribes to it.

If that intent is abusive, that is wrong. If the intent is disordered, then that is wrong. If it is in good order, and helps create a bond between new family members, is it not good? If it is in good order, and it helps transition a man into thinking he must act as a married person, is it not good? If it is in good order, and it humbles the man, that the father has sacrificed much to help raise her into the person she loves, is it not good?

If one finds it meaningless, and doesn’t want to do it, that is fine. Hopefully though there are other things that can take its place in a meaningful way. To extend that into calling it silly and worse sexist is over reaching, because it is not in itself a bad thing. Of course it can be misused and abused, but it is better to distinguish the differences, and not arrogantly dismissing it as a bad thing.
 
I think we are so beyond anal in these threads it’s scary:D But, I agree with you, jman…I totally get where you’re coming from.
 
whatevergirl said:
I think we are so beyond anal in these threads it’s scary:D But, I agree with you, jman…I totally get where you’re coming from.
Click to expand...
I am sure I’ll be a treat to be married to. I enjoy my polemics, arguing contraversy, a bit too much. I’m sure once I get going I’ll argue with someone on a point I agree. 😃
 
jman507 said:
I am sure I’ll be a treat to be married to. I enjoy my polemics, arguing contraversy, a bit too much. I’m sure once I get going I’ll argue with someone on a point I agree. 😃
Click to expand...
Marry a lawyer, and you’ll do just fine.😃 My husband likes to be contrary sometimes…but you know, it can help others to think of things they might not have–so I think it could be seen as a positive trait, although, it makes me laugh when I see threads that are analyzed to death.😛
 
jman507 said:
That’s fine, its the point of calling it sexist. In the end, what matters more in the tradition is what it subjectively means to the people involved. Now if you take something like a sacrament, the Church has well established it objective terms, even if that also functions in conjunction with how a person subjectively thinks of it. Meaning a person can know what confession does, but it will also take on a subjective feeling of say renewal. That isn’t really needed, but it assist the objective nicely.

It is difficult to put down what it means in certain terms, because it is more a matter of what it means to each person. I wouldn’t call it a silly tradition, because that is determined by the person. I don’t see it as anyway being disordered in itself. Due to its subjective nature, what is going to matter is the intent the person ascribes to it.

If that intent is abusive, that is wrong. If the intent is disordered, then that is wrong. If it is in good order, and helps create a bond between new family members, is it not good? If it is in good order, and it helps transition a man into thinking he must act as a married person, is it not good? If it is in good order, and it humbles the man, that the father has sacrificed much to help raise her into the person she loves, is it not good?

If one finds it meaningless, and doesn’t want to do it, that is fine. Hopefully though there are other things that can take its place in a meaningful way. To extend that into calling it silly and worse sexist is over reaching, because it is not in itself a bad thing. Of course it can be misused and abused, but it is better to distinguish the differences, and not arrogantly dismissing it as a bad thing.
Click to expand...
Your analysis seems a bit vague. To get to the point: if he asks his girlfiend’s father because either of them seriously thinks that the father’s permission is needed, then yes that is sexist and immoral. If they are doing it for pure form or “tradition” or “cuteness” or some twisted idea of “politeness”, and the man intends to disregard any lack of “permission”, then it is meaningless, pointless, trivialises the sacrament of matrimony and could even be a source of scandal. I maintain that it is a silly sexist pagan custom which is irreconcilable with the true meaning of the Christian Sacrament of Marriage.
 
Phemie said:
Certainly the Marriage Rite doesn’t envision the father walking his daughter down the aisle and ‘giving her away’. In other faiths the question is asked “Who gives this woman in marriage?” Such a question doesn’t come up in the Catholic Rite.
Click to expand...
Quick question, I keep hearing/reading that the father doesn’t give the daughter away at the ceremony. He can walk her down the aisle though right? I have always looked forward to this, so I’m just curious. Thanks!
 
Dani_Girl0517 said:
Quick question, I keep hearing/reading that the father doesn’t give the daughter away at the ceremony. He can walk her down the aisle though right? I have always looked forward to this, so I’m just curious. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Yes this does often happen at Catholic weddings, but the correct Catholic liturgical practice is that the bride and groom, as the two people celebrating the sacrament, come down the aisle together after the servers and the priest/deacon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top