Yea or Nay: Asking For A Daughter's Hand In Marriage

[jman507]

Your analysis seems a bit vague. To get to the point: if he asks his girlfiend’s father because either of them seriously thinks that the father’s permission is needed, then yes that is sexist and immoral. If they are doing it for pure form or “tradition” or “cuteness” or some twisted idea of “politeness”, and the man intends to disregard any lack of “permission”, then it is meaningless, pointless, trivialises the sacrament of matrimony and could even be a source of scandal. I maintain that it is a silly sexist pagan custom which is irreconcilable with the true meaning of the Christian Sacrament of Marriage.

Seriously? Why would a person think that the father’s permission must be obtained? If anything if you want to get married as a sacrament in the church, the couple ought to have some idea about what is needed both for civil purposes and for religious purposes. If not it should be told to them at least by the pastor at some point in time.

One can still disregard a lack of permission on behalf of the parents, because the parents have no actual authority. (I’ll say though, if a parent is not going to give permission, they better be very careful about it. It had better be a battle worth fighting.) Even though that might make the act rather superficial, it does give an acknowledgement of appreciation and gratitude over the responsibility of their parenthood, of helping to form and protect the beloved child. It is an acknowledgement that others have at this point have sacrificed more out of love for her, for that said man should be humbled, and hope to follow the lead in the same vein, though in a different way. (If the parent in no way was responsible for her upbringing or was abusive, then I think it ought not be considered.) The ultimate authority of if the two should become married is with the two.

To blow it off for yourself is one thing, it is one thing to call it peculiar, but to extend that to make the whole thing generally a “tradition,” “cute,” “polite” and otherwise just plain wrong is overreaching. It can be abused, but it is not in itself wrong. The intentions that it is carried out is what matters. You accuse me of being vague, but the problem the whole matter is vague. It cannot be as narrowly defined as you make it. What defines it, is how the person doing it intends it as.

 

[Petergee]

Seriously? Why would a person think that the father’s permission must be obtained?

That’s what some here seem to be saying.

One can still disregard a lack of permission on behalf of the parents, because the parents have no actual authority. (I’ll say though, if a parent is not going to give permission, they better be very careful about it. It had better be a battle worth fighting.) Even though that might make the act rather superficial, it does give an acknowledgement of appreciation and gratitude over the responsibility of their parenthood, of helping to form and protect the beloved child. It is an acknowledgement that others have at this point have sacrificed more out of love for her, for that said man should be humbled, and hope to follow the lead in the same vein, though in a different way. (If the parent in no way was responsible for her upbringing or was abusive, then I think it ought not be considered.) The ultimate authority of if the two should become married is with the two.

To blow it off for yourself is one thing, it is one thing to call it peculiar, but to extend that to make the whole thing generally a “tradition,” “cute,” “polite” and otherwise just plain wrong is overreaching. It can be abused, but it is not in itself wrong. The intentions that it is carried out is what matters. You accuse me of being vague, but the problem the whole matter is vague. It cannot be as narrowly defined as you make it. What defines it, is how the person doing it intends it as.

OK. Maybe you think I’m too simplistic, but I tend to take at face value anything anyone says or does, unless there is some evidence that they mean something else by it. It seems to have got me through life OK so far. Christ did tell us “say yes when you mean yes and no when you mean no”.
I don’t really see the point of asking someone’s permission, when you don’t really mean to ask their permission at all, but mean something totally different, which may be one of several things depending on who you and the other person are and what you are thinking but don’t say. How is anyone supposed to guess what it might mean in a particular case?I

 

[PatienceAndLove]

My DH was planning on asking my dad’s permission for my hand in marriage, but my dad beat him to it.
I believe the convo went like this:

Dad: i need some help at the fire pit
FDH: okay
walk walk walk walk walk… (did i mention is was 1 1/2 acres away?)gather wood, throw paper on wood, throw candle oil on paper and wood, attempt to light fire. realize there is no center pole for massive bonfire. rip apart bonfire. trek into woods for center pole tree. return to garage for chainsaw. go back into woods. cut down tree. plant tree 3 feet into ground and rebuild bonfire. throw paper back on. add more oil. attempt to light. wind blows out flame. attempt several more time. add lighter fluid. attempt to light. make flaming inferno on a stick covered in candle oil/lighter fluid soaked t-shirt and throw on fire. bonfire lights. get beer
Dad: So, when are you going to ask me for my daughter’s hand?
FDH: Um… now?
Dad: You’re a nice kid… okay. Here’s a beer
stand around staring at fire and drinking beer for the next 3 hours

 

[deb1]

One can still disregard a lack of permission on behalf of the parents, because the parents have no actual authority. (I’ll say though, if a parent is not going to give permission, they better be very careful about it. It had better be a battle worth fighting.) Even though that might make the act rather superficial, it does give an acknowledgement of appreciation and gratitude over the responsibility of their parenthood, of helping to form and protect the beloved child. .

Asking for a blessing, not permission, would make better sense.

 

[deb1]

I am sure I’ll be a treat to be married to. I enjoy my polemics, arguing contraversy, a bit too much. I’m sure once I get going I’ll argue with someone on a point I agree.

Oh you poor, poor, innocent man. You are in for such a wake up call once you are married. Women can remember every word said in an arguement looo…oooong after the man has forgotten he even had the arguement.

 

[jman507]

That’s what some here seem to be saying.OK. Maybe you think I’m too simplistic, but I tend to take at face value anything anyone says or does, unless there is some evidence that they mean something else by it. It seems to have got me through life OK so far. Christ did tell us “say yes when you mean yes and no when you mean no”.
I don’t really see the point of asking someone’s permission, when you don’t really mean to ask their permission at all, but mean something totally different, which may be one of several things depending on who you and the other person are and what you are thinking but don’t say. How is anyone supposed to guess what it might mean in a particular case?I

No, actually I really do mean to ask for their permission. I never have said that the my desion, on my part, is completely contingient on what they decide. On the other hand they would have an important insight from their point of view, and they have a special responsiblity to the well being of her. While they may not have the full role, they do have a special honorary roll.

Also as I have said I would also be doing it mostly for self-centered reasons. Even though the asking for a blessing and permission function the same way, that is why my preferance is permission. It is one thing to ask someone to marry you. It is another to look at the person that raised her, especially the father, who understands what it is to be a man (provided he tryied to do the best he could in the role), and to say I want to marry your daughter. I want more than just a blessing, even though I do not have to have it and it’s completely honorary, I would like you to permit it. That to me seems completely humbling and sobering.

Then I’d like to know the reasons. I will consider anything they say. If the reasoning is poor or seems invalid, I won’t really put that much stock into it. If the reasoning is good and valid, I may actually agree with a no.

 

[whatevergirl]

My DH was planning on asking my dad’s permission for my hand in marriage, but my dad beat him to it.
I believe the convo went like this:

Dad: i need some help at the fire pit
FDH: okay
walk walk walk walk walk… (did i mention is was 1 1/2 acres away?)gather wood, throw paper on wood, throw candle oil on paper and wood, attempt to light fire. realize there is no center pole for massive bonfire. rip apart bonfire. trek into woods for center pole tree. return to garage for chainsaw. go back into woods. cut down tree. plant tree 3 feet into ground and rebuild bonfire. throw paper back on. add more oil. attempt to light. wind blows out flame. attempt several more time. add lighter fluid. attempt to light. make flaming inferno on a stick covered in candle oil/lighter fluid soaked t-shirt and throw on fire. bonfire lights. get beer
Dad: So, when are you going to ask me for my daughter’s hand?
FDH: Um… now?
Dad: You’re a nice kid… okay. Here’s a beer
stand around staring at fire and drinking beer for the next 3 hours

hahaha That is adorable! This post made my day.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

hahaha That is adorable! This post made my day.

Gotta love the men my life

 

[jman507]

Oh you poor, poor, innocent man. You are in for such a wake up call once you are married. Women can remember every word said in an arguement looo…oooong after the man has forgotten he even had the arguement.

Who says I am innocent?

 

[whatevergirl]

Gotta love the men my life

It’s funny–I could totally see my dh doing this someday…!!

 

[AHapka]

Dad: You’re a nice kid… okay. Here’s a beer
stand around staring at fire and drinking beer for the next 3 hours

Mmmmmm…beer (quoting Homer Simpson)

 

[EsclavoDeCristo]

I know that a lot of potential husbands here in the south follow the custom of asking the dad for his daughter’s hand in marriage. First, let me state that I understand that it is a tradition meant to show respect for the family of his future wife. So, in that sense it is positive.

I have always been uncomfortable though with this tradition . My thinking is that if my daughter is old enough to get married then she is no longer a minor and thus can make her own decisions. I wouldn’t mind if my daughter and her future husband came TOGETHER to us for a blessing but to ask permission just seems to make the woman property. Besides, unless the father really does have the power to say no and the daughter listen to him, then it is a pretty meaningless tradition.

Now I know that not everyone feels the same and that there are some very independent women who would feel honored that there fiance’s followed this custom. I am not trying to offend anyone. I would just like to hear both sides about this custom. From what I am hearing from friends, I am the minority in disliking this.

For those who had or want, their future spouse to ask their father’s permission for their hand in marriage, if you dad said that he would pray about it and then returned and said that he decided that you two shouldn’t marry, would you respect his decision?

Before I proposed to my wife I called (couldnt meet in person since he lives over 1000 miles away) and asked my father in law for his ‘blessing’, not permission, in seeking his daughters hand in marriage. I think he was more nervous than I was (calling him was harder for me than proposing). He told me that if his daughter was happy and she discerned that I was the one for her, that was enough for him.

 

[EsclavoDeCristo]

Gotta love the men my life

That is awesome! My FIL used to say that although he didn’t know me well, at least I like beer and that is good in his books… . Nothing like sharing a beer with dear old dad in law!

 

[Petergee]

No, actually I really do mean to ask for their permission. I never have said that the my desion, on my part, is completely contingient on what they decide. On the other hand they would have an important insight from their point of view, and they have a special responsiblity to the well being of her. While they may not have the full role, they do have a special honorary roll.

Also as I have said I would also be doing it mostly for self-centered reasons. Even though the asking for a blessing and permission function the same way, that is why my preferance is permission. It is one thing to ask someone to marry you. It is another to look at the person that raised her, especially the father, who understands what it is to be a man (provided he tryied to do the best he could in the role), and to say I want to marry your daughter. I want more than just a blessing, even though I do not have to have it and it’s completely honorary, I would like you to permit it. That to me seems completely humbling and sobering.

Then I’d like to know the reasons. I will consider anything they say. If the reasoning is poor or seems invalid, I won’t really put that much stock into it. If the reasoning is good and valid, I may actually agree with a no.

I would describe that as “telling him you’re getting married and listening for any advice he may have”, not “asking his permission to marry”.

 

[Asillia]

Thank you for the reply and I am sorry it took me awhile to get to it - life had other plans.

I think some things you may have misinterpreted/I wasn’t clear on…maybe others we will just have to respectfully disagree.
*
I seriously doubt that MW is doing it cause he wants to make sure you keep in your place. He thinks he is being considerate, but from what you say he is doing it out of a subtle hatred of women. I will say it is a slap in the face, because it says to me, one far from being his intent of being considerate, its done out of a subtle hatred; something I’m sure MW would probably not want to do. Second MW is stupid that he doesn’t see its true meaning. *

To be clear: I was not speaking about the ACT of opening a door for me…my fiance does that all the time. I was referring more to the comment that was made in that discussion about
women wanting to be like men and one of the things that brought that up was women opening doors for men. The biggest thing I was referring to was the notion that the woman has an elevated status over man, and deserves greater honor. I was referring to that particular mindset, NOT the actions. Also, I understand that perhaps having that mindset does not mean that the person subtly hates women - just that over time, those kinds of ideas about women have a bad tendency of turning on them. Either women become resented, held to standards that are impossibly high and treated badly when they can’t meet them (a modern example to me is the idea that women are supposed to be ‘beautiful’ -as a less than attractive woman, I have seen the way I’m viewed and treated because I don’t fit that lofty ideal. It’s like I’m less of a human being because of it, whereas men don’t face that pressure to the same extent), or their gender roles/personalities/interests are put into little boxes that they must stay adhere to.

What really burns me up (not saying that anybody here thinks this) is when certain virtues, for instance purity, are seen as the woman’s realm and that men don’t even have to try and attain them, because they are so much baser than women. And then of course if a woman falls in that area, she’s totally demonized, while a man is just being a man. As my priest says, all virtues are for all people, it’s just that some virtues might come easier to one gender or the other…so we teach each other.
*
On the other hand, if you just want to be treated like males, then chances are you are more likely to encourage men to sleep with women and just leave. Better than to be considerate, and told your a misogynist.*

I’m actually not sure what you mean by this. I don’t want to be treated like a male, I just want respect due to me as a human being. If that drives a man to sleep with me and leave (assuming I were the type to sleep with a man before I was married, which I’m not), I really think that is HIS issue, not mine.
*
I’ll contend that men and women have a different status, but not one that is inferior or superior, but on equal, but complementary footing. Men and women in general are have many similarities but still are different people. You’ll get in trouble if you think they are the same people, just with different body parts. One group may need to be tempered in one way. Not because it is bad, but it is good, yet it must be in check. *

I completely agree with this. Like I said, my big beef is the idea that one gender should be elevated or held to a different standard than the other. It actually took me a lot to get to this point though - I used to rail against any idea that we had any inherent qualities because that seemed to be determinism or stereotyping or what have you. But I do think we do have differences and it is a good thing we can learn from, and we shouldn’t try to attain sameness. We just need to respect each set of qualities, and understand that not every man and woman is going to fit the mold perfectly, but it doesn’t make them less feminine or masculine. Even with my fiance and me, there are some qualities that are ‘flipped’ for us. But both of us are still very in touch with our core and what it really means that we are male or female.

So now we’re really off topic, sorry

 

[David_Wani]

I know that a lot of potential husbands here in the south follow the custom of asking the dad for his daughter’s hand in marriage. First, let me state that I understand that it is a tradition meant to show respect for the family of his future wife. So, in that sense it is positive.

I have always been uncomfortable though with this tradition . My thinking is that if my daughter is old enough to get married then she is no longer a minor and thus can make her own decisions. I wouldn’t mind if my daughter and her future husband came TOGETHER to us for a blessing but to ask permission just seems to make the woman property. Besides, unless the father really does have the power to say no and the daughter listen to him, then it is a pretty meaningless tradition.

Now I know that not everyone feels the same and that there are some very independent women who would feel honored that there fiance’s followed this custom. I am not trying to offend anyone. I would just like to hear both sides about this custom. From what I am hearing from friends, I am the minority in disliking this.

For those who had or want, their future spouse to ask their father’s permission for their hand in marriage, if you dad said that he would pray about it and then returned and said that he decided that you two shouldn’t marry, would you respect his decision?

to this question,it depend to the sociaty where ever people grew. but wouldn’t agree for asking hand of daughter from father. in our tradition this mean buying and salling. because it is out of consent of a lady. sometime parents agree without consent of lady, or husband with his father’s in-law without consent of the lady.
the right tradition is, two spouse after agree among themselves, they have to contact their parents; each one goes to present his/her consernt to the parents.
marriage need to be knwn by the parents for the period of time. two families have to know themselves better befor time .marriage is not meetting of one day or week or months.